Did We Write Off Hawthorn Too Soon?

[Sixpence]

So use the ignore button then. You've been around long enough to know how it all works. If you refuse to report posts or use the ignore button then I can only conclude your modus operandi is to continually derail threads that upset you by crying troll and posting off topic until they're locked and you deserve what's coming to you.

If his 'monotonous posting' is getting in the way of your buddies' shit posting of Hawthorn you can always ignore him ...

 

[demondavey]

I think Clarkson would be having a nice giggle about all this talk of kids. Somehow the football industry have convinced itself Hawthorn are rebuilding. They're not and nor should they be. They've got a very mature team stacked full of premiership players who are right in their premiership window.

This weekend the talk is that it's a team who is selling their future for a go at a flag (geelong) against a team rebuilding with some mature players and some kids (hawthorn). Yet if the teams are the same as week 1 Geelong will have the youngest 5 players on the field. Part of that's due to injuries but Hawthorn's youngest player is Burton at 21 who isn't really a kid any more. I reckon come mid year there'll be a collective realisation when Hawthorn are pushing for a top 4 spot that we all got it wrong and that they're not in a rebuilding phase at all.

Kids compared to what they used to have age wise

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Kids compared to what they used to have age wise

Plus, we’ve had a bit of experience return from injury, so the kids that were getting games in the second half of 2017 are now back at Box Hill trying to force their way in. That’s why Burton at 21 is the youngest.

Our Irish kid, Glass, is one that just has to play this week. The others are in a line behind more senior players.

 

[hk89]

I think Clarkson would be having a nice giggle about all this talk of kids. Somehow the football industry have convinced itself Hawthorn are rebuilding. They're not and nor should they be. They've got a very mature team stacked full of premiership players who are right in their premiership window.

This weekend the talk is that it's a team who is selling their future for a go at a flag (geelong) against a team rebuilding with some mature players and some kids (hawthorn). Yet if the teams are the same as week 1 Geelong will have the youngest 5 players on the field. Part of that's due to injuries but Hawthorn's youngest player is Burton at 21 who isn't really a kid any more. I reckon come mid year there'll be a collective realisation when Hawthorn are pushing for a top 4 spot that we all got it wrong and that they're not in a rebuilding phase at all.

One of the more insightful opposition fan posts in this thread. If you look at Clarkson's selections last year and in round 1 this year he hasn't played kids unless injuries have forced his hand. Of course there are going to be new faces. We've lost Hodge, Mitchell, Lewis, Gibson in the last two off-seasons (and Lake and Hale in the one before that). Clarko isn't picking teams based on optimising development. He is picking teams based on winning as many games as possible. You don't play a 29 year old delisted free agent ahead of Harry Morrison or Conor Glass if you are in rebuild-only mode. Clarko may be trying a Geelong style rebuild-on-the-fly, but the rebuild part is secondary, it is there because we need to replace those players we've lost in the last few years, not because Clarko is planning on bottoming out and rebuilding from there (which is just as well, the teams that try that have won a small percentage of flags compared to the on-the-fly rebuilders, which includes Hawthorn after 2009).

It will be interesting to see if we can manage it. It is super hard to do with the draft picks we've had. Getting T.Mitchell and O'Meara helps, and takes pressure off needing to find some Sam Mitchell-like diamonds in the late draft rough. We'll probably need SOME late pick luck. Sicily looks like he might be one of those. Burton should be very good for a very late 1st rounder. KPPs are hard to get lucky with in the draft though, decent mids sometimes go unrecognised, but that is much rarer with KPPs. Will be interesting to see if Hawthorn see themselves as serious enough contenders to throw a competitive offer at Lynch. They haven't done that kind of high dollar trade before, but there is always a first. Highly risky strategy overall, but perhaps not any more so than a bottoming out rebuild given how few succeed, how many now for Carlton and Melbourne?. Will be fun to watch Clarko give it a whirl.

 

[Gralin]

Hardwick a couple of days younger that Burton
We had 5 blokes under 50 games all 23 or under out there
Then you had Jaeger just over 50 games and Impey who is 22

Mitchell is 24 and was our best on the day

 

[Footy Smarts]

Kids compared to what they used to have age wise

Are they though? There youngest 5 players on the weekend were:

Hardwick 21yr 1month
Burton 21y 1m
Howe 22y 3m
Impey 22y 8m

In the 2013 GF they had:
Hill 20y 2m
Gunston 21y 11m
Shiels 22y 5m
Breust 22y 10m

If they make finals these guys will be 6 months older too.

 

[SA HAWK]

I’m not looking at their whole careers.

My statement was simply that Hooker is a better player than any KPP on Hawthorns list.

Fair call at the moment.

 

[demondavey]

Are they though? There youngest 5 players on the weekend were:

Hardwick 21yr 1month
Burton 21y 1m
Howe 22y 3m
Impey 22y 8m

In the 2013 GF they had:
Hill 20y 2m
Gunston 21y 11m
Shiels 22y 5m
Breust 22y 10m

If they make finals these guys will be 6 months older too.

Ok, fair point. Good analysis.

 

[Lance Uppercut]

I am interested to see how Rioli goes. Whether he still has that passion and dedication. Ceglar I've never been convinced about. Frawley will be a sound returning player, ditto Stratton. Impey could add some x factor but let's see a few weeks.

Was super impressed with O'Meara and Mitchell. Hawks supporters couldn't possibly have hoped for a better output than they got there. I couldn't believe when I saw Mitchell's disposals tally. Nuts. He's a genuine gun that guy, no questions whatsoever. And O'Meara looked as good as he has post-injury. Good movement as encouraging as anything. His first 10 minutes was pretty amazing.

Afaic it's whether the young players are up to it. Hawthorn will get varying degrees of value from known quantities such as Burgoyne, Breust, Smith, Roughead etc; but what about the kids? That's what this year is about. Every club has kids they talk up, it's about them walking the walk. Until they put the runs on the board it's nothing more than typical club supporter hope. Burton obvious quality. Sicily looks good. Some others talked up have done little to prove anything though.

Main optimism for Hawks supporters would be the very real chance the big gamble and price paid for Mitchell and O'Meara might pay off. Well, already a certainty for Mitchell, and despite what anyone might think I wish Jaeger all the best too. Deserves a good healthy run at it to see if he can still be the player he was destined to be.

Good start, let's see what happens

 

[_Mike_]

Roughead hasn’t been anything better than ‘good’ since 2015.

A bout of cancer usually knocks someone about, perspective & priorities of getting better > Footy.

 

[demondavey]

I am interested to see how Rioli goes. Whether he still has that passion and dedication. Ceglar I've never been convinced about. Frawley will be a sound returning player, ditto Stratton. Impey could add some x factor but let's see a few weeks.

Was super impressed with O'Meara and Mitchell. Hawks supporters couldn't possibly have hoped for a better output than they got there. I couldn't believe when I saw Mitchell's disposals tally. Nuts. He's a genuine gun that guy, no questions whatsoever. And O'Meara looked as good as he has post-injury. Good movement as encouraging as anything. His first 10 minutes was pretty amazing.

Afaic it's whether the young players are up to it. Hawthorn will get varying degrees of value from known quantities such as Burgoyne, Breust, Smith, Roughead, Burton etc; but what about the kids? That's what this year is about. Every club has kids they talk up, it's about them walking the walk. Until they put the runs on the board it's nothing more than typical club supporter hope.

Main optimism for Hawks supporters would be the very real chance the big gamble and price paid for Mitchell and O'Meara might pay off. Well, already a certainty for Mitchell, and despite what anyone might think I wish Jaeger all the best too. Deserves a good healthy run at it to see if he can still be the player he was destined to be.

Good start, let's see what happens

O’Meara looks like his fit. Always been in good shape but moved really well on the weekend. If his body holds up I think he will be critical to them pushing into the 8.

It’s such a long season however.

 

[Lance Uppercut]

O’Meara looks like his fit. Always been in good shape but moved really well on the weekend. If his body holds up I think he will be critical to them pushing into the 8.

It’s such a long season however.

I wasn't sure he could recapture his zip; and frankly I'm still not sure. But he moved as freely as he had in years and for the first time in a long time I thought, well, maybe... maybe he actually will get there again

 

[demondavey]

I wasn't sure he could recapture his zip; and frankly I'm still not sure. But he moved as freely as he had in years and for the first time in a long time I thought, well, maybe... maybe he actually will get there again

If Hawthorn has been able to get O’Meara fit then it bothers me that my club has clearly mismanaged injured players. Another story.

Yes I rate O’Meara. Highly. And he did move well and uninhibited. I am glad he is back, such an exciting footballer.

 

[DrEvil_]

Which is honestly probably the worst reality of all. Just ask North fans. Hanging around mid table for too long is not good, no real talent refreshment

Well we can't all dope our teams to get a number 1 pick now, can we?

 

[DrEvil_]

This is really disrespectful to Mitchell of the Sam variety.

Not really, we literally picked up Mitchell Lewis.

 

[Pessimistic]

I'm at a loss as to how they'll defeat essendonia

Kick more goals?

 

[Freomaniac]

Its round 1 and Hawthorn put away a wooden spoon contender

If they beat Geelong in round 2 then a chat might happen (although if they lose to the Demons tomorrow....... Geelong may as well be a 2018 wooden spoon contender as well).

I should of Put $50 on yor mob to make the GF at $23 before round 1. It as plummeted down to $11. Hawks are $19 for the flag

 

[DrEvil_]

I should of Put $50 on yor mob to make the GF at $23 before round 1. It as plummeted down to $11. Hawks are $19 for the flag

Cash out NOW

 

[Freomaniac]

Cash out NOW

I got a spare fiddy. So yeah throw it on the hawks to make the GF

 

[SA HAWK]

A bout of cancer usually knocks someone about, perspective & priorities of getting better > Footy.

I think it's amazing Roughy got back at all.

 

[matey]

Interesting to see how Mitchell and JOM go against Danger/Selwood/Ablett combo this week all playing together for the first time. Yikes ..... what a challenge!

 

[threesixpio]

I am interested to see how Rioli goes. Whether he still has that passion and dedication. Ceglar I've never been convinced about. Frawley will be a sound returning player, ditto Stratton. Impey could add some x factor but let's see a few weeks.

Was super impressed with O'Meara and Mitchell. Hawks supporters couldn't possibly have hoped for a better output than they got there. I couldn't believe when I saw Mitchell's disposals tally. Nuts. He's a genuine gun that guy, no questions whatsoever. And O'Meara looked as good as he has post-injury. Good movement as encouraging as anything. His first 10 minutes was pretty amazing.

Afaic it's whether the young players are up to it. Hawthorn will get varying degrees of value from known quantities such as Burgoyne, Breust, Smith, Roughead etc; but what about the kids? That's what this year is about. Every club has kids they talk up, it's about them walking the walk. Until they put the runs on the board it's nothing more than typical club supporter hope. Burton obvious quality. Sicily looks good. Some others talked up have done little to prove anything though.

Main optimism for Hawks supporters would be the very real chance the big gamble and price paid for Mitchell and O'Meara might pay off. Well, already a certainty for Mitchell, and despite what anyone might think I wish Jaeger all the best too. Deserves a good healthy run at it to see if he can still be the player he was destined to be.

Good start, let's see what happens

That was so polite I almost threw up.

You’ve changed

 

[_Mike_]

I think it's amazing Roughy got back at all.

I find it amazing that something as serious as cancer would be used as a springboard for player comparisons, but that's just me.

 

[demondavey]

Interesting to see how Mitchell and JOM go against Danger/Selwood/Ablett combo this week all playing together for the first time. Yikes ..... what a challenge!

I was surprised how well Ablett went. You can tell he just wasn’t happy at Gold Coast. I think Dangerfield goes forward. It really isn’t necessary to have him in the middle when there is Ablett, Selwood and Duncan. He proved a handful last time.

This is going to be a great game. Mitchell is elite now and JOM looks fit. It’ll also give us a look at how Howe goes under the heat of a gun opposition midfield. I reckon Burgoyne will step up here and have a blinder.

 

[Jade]

I find it amazing that something as serious as cancer would be used as a springboard for player comparisons, but that's just me.

I find it amazing that people seem to think cancer equates to some sort of holy, untouchable condition.

In footy context, it's no different to any other medical condition that prevents a player from playing.

And I'm not the one that brought Roughead up.

He had cancer. So that somehow cancels out the fact that he spent a year out of football does it? We shouldn't be casting a critical eye at his status as a player because of it?

Stuff that. He missed a year of football, and has not performed at a level that we would normally associate with Roughead since.

In fact, that's not quite true, he was already declining in 2015. Don't get me wrong, his 'decline' still had him playing pretty good footy - which speaks volumes of how well he was playing previous to that.

The last time the Roughead that people want to seemingly cling to actually played was 2014.