Play Nice The 'all things Carlton' mega-thread

[Monkey King]

He could have actually dismissed the assertion instead of prickling up over the term ‘henchman’ and what he is directly responsible for.

He did. He dismissed Caro’s and Matthews assertions; basically asking Caro - and what the hell do you and Matthews know? And her response was ... well nothing at all. “You’re friends with the prez”. Yeah right! He was asked questions about his influence at Carlton and he outlined the sphere of his influence.

It’s like me saying you post on BF with one finger stuck in your butt. I think a reasonable response would be - how the hell do you know when you’re not even in proximity and then stating what it is you do do when posting on BF. Honestly, I don’t understand at all what your problem is here.

And I have no issue him taking Caro to task for writing crap. Not-a-one. Was interesting to see the support SOS got on social media from other people in the industry who Caro has likely done a similar hatchet job on.

 

[Monkey King]

All that is being said is that SOS still has more influence at Carlton than would normally be afforded to the list manager ... the inference is that SOS does have the presidents ear and was part of a small group that was consulted about a decision to pursue Lethlean as CEO ...

Actually what Matthews said was that SOS was the most powerful person at Carlton. Not just that he had influence beyond that of your ordinary list manager. A big statement with nothing to back it up.

And SOS directly refuted Caro’s suggestions re Trigg. She insisted she was right, he said well they’re the facts and all she could say was “I don’t believe you”. Powerful journalism!

And you’ve fixated heavily on what was in actuality a very small part of SOS’s response, reminding her what she wrote about “henchmen”. The only one babbling on about this my friend is you.

 

[citizen-erased]

Caro’s article today is piss poor point scoring
An epic on how bad Carlton are presently post SOS’ roasting of her and her panel on Monday night
Really?
Like this is news to anyone
Carlton are rebuilding from scratch. They are gonna struggle for a while

We are devoting column inches to this as a priority now

Sick of the media using their pulpit for personal means

 

[Ron The Bear]

Passed up the chance to give us a look at Lebois, named as emergency.

Carlton gets a look at a weakened Hawthorn, who they beat last year after a run of 14 outs.

 

[The Gov]

I think you’re missing the point re McVeigh. He would be there to provide experience and training on the field. Not dissimilar to Hodge and Lewis. Roos even pointed out that across (who played 1 year are melbourne) was such an influential recruit because of his leadership. He wouldn’t be expected to be there when they are playing finals.

A year or so of leadership and lifting training standards etc is great and all, but I'd rather a player who comes in and develops as a leader alongside the kids, one who they know is driven to come out the other side when they're good again and still be there leading, as opposed to a McVeigh who would give great value for a season or two but not be there when success rolls around again.

Carlton's young guns are all 19-24, maybe 3 years on average away from their prime.

If I was Carlton I'd be looking at a Dahlhaus/Gaff type who both adds leadership and value now and will be part of that prime team in 3 years time. Of course those players are harder to get so easier said than done

 

[doppleganger]

Heh, for her sake I hope it's not the same source that gave her the Sloane to Vic news.

Apologies, the way it was described before made me interpret your post as depicting SOS in a negative connotation.
Well if that's the case, if he's a positive influence on the integrity of the club and driving them forward, then more power to him. Trigg sucked anyway, lets be honest.

I'm not sure if I can be convinced that the allegation is anything more than guess work, so I'll move on from that. But I at least can see now what you're getting at.

Yeah I don’t see references to SOS as a Carlton powerbroker as a negative.

And if you compare him with Ned Guy, his equivalent at Collingwood, I think he would have a greater influence than him as he is a Carlton champion with all the connections and relationships formed from his time at the club.

If he is a trusted close friend of the pres, makes sense to me that he would be sounded out about big decisions.

 

[doppleganger]

He did. He dismissed Caro’s and Matthews assertions; basically asking Caro - and what the hell do you and Matthews know? And her response was ... well nothing at all. “You’re friends with the prez”. Yeah right! He was asked questions about his influence at Carlton and he outlined the sphere of his influence..

This is my point, he outlined his direct responsibility according to his PD and where he sits in the Carlton Org Structure.

As he reports to A.McKay, so by definition his official role has less breadth, responsibility and size compared to McKay.

Nobody cares what his actual PD is, as what is being questioned is what his indirect advisory influence is, outside of his direct responsibility that he was happy to so thoroughly detail.

And I have no issue him taking Caro to task for writing crap. Not-a-one. Was interesting to see the support SOS got on social media from other people in the industry who Caro has likely done a similar hatchet job on.

Social media happy to see someone argue with Caro...big surprise there.

Caro writes a negative article about a club and the fans take it personally and think Caro is the problem. Happens at Collingwood too.

 

[deck]

Gotta question his claim on senior players being brought in to help teach the younger players. What senior players of any note did they bring in. All I see is a bunch of blokes who struggled to get a game at there former clubs. They were all rejects who hardly fit the profile of setting standards on the field.

 

[SickQwon]

Gotta question his claim on senior players being brought in to help teach the younger players. What senior players of any note did they bring in. All I see is a bunch of blokes who struggled to get a game at there former clubs. They were all rejects who hardly fit the profile of setting standards on the field.

The alternative is play 18 year olds taken at pick 70+. Without the benefits of having a bit of experience in their side.
And we had no players in the 24-28 age bracket. We got the best of what was available. You can obviously tell they’re not in the long term plans but they’re playing a role.

 

[demontim27]

Actually what Matthews said was that SOS was the most powerful person at Carlton. Not just that he had influence beyond that of your ordinary list manager. A big statement with nothing to back it up.

And SOS directly refuted Caro’s suggestions re Trigg. She insisted she was right, he said well they’re the facts and all she could say was “I don’t believe you”. Powerful journalism!

And you’ve fixated heavily on what was in actuality a very small part of SOS’s response, reminding her what she wrote about “henchmen”. The only one babbling on about this my friend is you.

So basically. You have two people saying opposing things, you believe SOS, but can’t understand why anyone would believe the opposite side?

 

[PP34]

So basically. You have two people saying opposing things, you believe SOS, but can’t understand why anyone would believe the opposite side?

Because the media throwing out rubbish without any basis is oh so believable

 

[demontim27]

Because the media throwing out rubbish without any basis is oh so believable

Probably just shut down bigfooty then. Most posts on here rely on the media or are made up by a poster

I don’t find the story that a club legend has more say at a club than what his official capacity allows unbelievable.

 

[HalloweenJack]

Gotta question his claim on senior players being brought in to help teach the younger players. What senior players of any note did they bring in. All I see is a bunch of blokes who struggled to get a game at there former clubs. They were all rejects who hardly fit the profile of setting standards on the field.

The recruitment of these players has been an unmitigated disaster and can easily be laid at the feet of SOS. The only qualifier to be added is that I don't think they were intended to be played as much in the seniors as they have been but injuries put paid to that plan.

 

[BPikkers]

A year or so of leadership and lifting training standards etc is great and all, but I'd rather a player who comes in and develops as a leader alongside the kids, one who they know is driven to come out the other side when they're good again and still be there leading, as opposed to a McVeigh who would give great value for a season or two but not be there when success rolls around again.

Carlton's young guns are all 19-24, maybe 3 years on average away from their prime.

If I was Carlton I'd be looking at a Dahlhaus/Gaff type who both adds leadership and value now and will be part of that prime team in 3 years time. Of course those players are harder to get so easier said than done

I hear what you are saying however, Gaff and Dalhaus don’t even come close tot he leadership McVeigh can provide. Also, as you said, he will cost them nothing and can move into a coaching role after a year or so.

I was surprised when Roos said that Cross was very influential in his 1 year playing and now coaching at Melbourne. He gives him a lot of credit for developing the kids at Melbourne.

 

[AndyLucimitis]

Caro’s article today is piss poor point scoring
An epic on how bad Carlton are presently post SOS’ roasting of her and her panel on Monday night
Really?
Like this is news to anyone
Carlton are rebuilding from scratch. They are gonna struggle for a while

We are devoting column inches to this as a priority now

Sick of the media using their pulpit for personal means

Carlton supporter and generally enjoy Caro in the media but I just thought this was a gutless article. Obviously Carlton are easy pickings at the moment and after her dealings with SOS, this just smacks of a wounded arrogant journo unloading on someones who's upset her - The Carlton 'brand', priority picks, list management, the colour of our clash strip, TV ratings, marriage equality ...it has it all !!

I suspect she was close to Trigg and he fed her a lot of inside information which perhaps explains her obsession with his dismissal. He was in the job for 3 years and hadn't even bothered to re-locate from Adelaide - shock horror, he was sacked.

The clubs not travelling well lets face it but, rightly or wrongly, at least LoGudice, SOS and the club have had the balls to take decisive action. It might work - it might not.

The thing with journalists is they are the like the Leader of the Opposition. They don't do anything that they have to be accountable for unlike people like SOS and Bolton. I'd like to see Caro come out and say how she would have handled the list rebuild ??

As they the old saying goes - "those who can do, those who can't ....write about it !!"

 

[mtooler]

Not a fan of priority pick for Carlton, let them fight and trade their way out of it. It will be better for them in the long term. I think on the whole SOS is doing well too. Depends on compemsation GC get if Lynch and May leave but more inclined they get a compo pick, its a basket case up there.

 

[Monkey King]

So basically. You have two people saying opposing things, you believe SOS, but can’t understand why anyone would believe the opposite side?

I say you stick one finger up your butt while posting on BF. I’ve never seen it. I’m not there. I can produce no evidence of it being true. I assume you’d deny it. Should I be believed over you, like you know, just because?

 

[Monkey King]

Nobody cares what his actual PD is, as what is being questioned is what his indirect advisory influence is, outside of his direct responsibility that he was happy to so thoroughly detail.

Nah. The assertion was not about some indirect advisory influence. It was that he has serious power, if not the most power of any person at Carlton. He said that was bullshit. What else is there to say? It’s not like his accuser had any facts to refute.

Funny that most in the industry, including Caro herself, reckon SOS performed very well in that interview. But here you still are babbling on about henchmen and that SOS had the audacity to outline his role at club. Dear lord!

 

[demontim27]

I say you stick one finger up your butt while posting on BF. I’ve never seen it. I’m not there. I can produce no evidence of it being true. I assume you’d deny it. Should I be believed over you, like you know, just because?

You keep saying this “no evidence” thing as if there’s no contextual clues.

The two scenarios are in no way similar. And it’s a bit strange that I’m the second poster you’ve mentioned this ass fingering with.

I also sincerely doubt that you’ve never trusted a journos piece on football that has little evidence. Half the posts on the trade board (and bigfooty in general) relate to what journos say.

As I said it’s just strange that your logic is that you can believe SOS, but that no one can believe Caro/matthews.

 

[Eaglespur]

The Hobart Blues. Makes sense. Fitting name for a Tasmanian club

 

[Monkey King]

As I said it’s just strange that your logic is that you can believe SOS, but that no one can believe Caro/matthews.

There is a reason that in a fair society the onus is always on the accuser. SOS said the Trigg situation didn’t play out how Caro said it did. He was actually there. He actually experienced it. If someone who wasn’t even there wants to claim otherwise, they should at least be required to produce something of substance in order to warrant being believed ... shouldn’t they? If that doesn’t make sense to you, then I question your standards.

 

[Doro]

You keep saying this “no evidence” thing as if there’s no contextual clues.

The two scenarios are in no way similar. And it’s a bit strange that I’m the second poster you’ve mentioned this ass fingering with.

I also sincerely doubt that you’ve never trusted a journos piece on football that has little evidence. Half the posts on the trade board (and bigfooty in general) relate to what journos say.

As I said it’s just strange that your logic is that you can believe SOS, but that no one can believe Caro/matthews.

Egon Zehnder is charged with our recruitment process- MLG and Liddle will oversee it and consult with the board for future appointments. The first will be the new General Manager of football. SOS will have nothing to do with it, other than in Caros head.

 

[doppleganger]

Nah. The assertion was not about some indirect advisory influence. It was that he has serious power, if not the most power of any person at Carlton. He said that was bullshit. What else is there to say? It’s not like his accuser had any facts to refute.

Funny that most in the industry, including Caro herself, reckon SOS performed very well in that interview. But here you still are babbling on about henchmen and that SOS had the audacity to outline his role at club. Dear lord!

Plenty of people out there who wield significant power from indirect advisory roles despite not being in positions of formal accountability.

I just find it funny that you think SOS rattling off his PD and the Carlton org structure as some kind of drop mic moment.

The entire premise is that SOS has more power than his position at Carlton according to the org structure should give him.

For starters he should have less influence and breadth of scope than McKay, his direct boss.

 

[ManOfClay]

Because the media throwing out rubbish without any basis is oh so believable

It’s just a difference of agenda.

More and more these days clubs are throwing out just as much rubbish. But their agenda is to keep the masses happy and paying memberships.


I’m not sure but perhaps Carlton like many clubs email out a coach’s member-exclusive message post game. And it’s filled with spin to make you forget the ineptitude that preceded it. Even though often it does the opposite

 

[Monkey King]

... you think SOS rattling off his PD and the Carlton org structure as some kind of drop mic moment.

Person 1: I think SOS was useless talking about his role at the club.

Person 2: It was a fair response under the circumstances

Person 1: I think it’s funny you consider that some kind of drop mic moment.

Person 2: *shakes head*

For starters he should have less influence and breadth of scope than McKay, his direct boss.

The “starters” is you actually showing that he does have more influence than McKay.