Strategy Trade and List management (Add your rumour to the simmering stew that is the post season. Edition.)

[dogwatch]

My understanding that at least a portion (I believe the minimum wage) is outside the total player payments for a club, but struggling to find anything to back it up.

There is this mention in an article by Call Twomey:

"Losing the rookie list and extending the senior list to make it one entity would require a salary cap boost, which is expected to come via the next broadcast rights deal (to start in 2017). At the moment, there are varying and complex rules relating to how much of a rookie's salary goes into the total player payments, if at all."

http://www.nmfc.com.au/news/2015-04-21/afl-rookie-list-debate

Some people on Bigfooty, who I won't claim to be verifiable also have this to say, which does agree with the potentially complicated nature of Rookie Payments and the TPP.





Oh wait! I found it in the collective bargaining agreement:

Clause 10. Total Player Payments

"In calculation of the Total Player Payments for each AFL Club, the following payments will not be taken into account:"

(iii) the Football Payments made to a Rookie temporarily promoted to the Primary List of an AFL Club to replace a Player transferred to the Long Term Injury List;
(ix) Football Payments to Rookie Players except to the extent that this Agreement provides otherwise;

And it only gets more complex from there. But yes, in a drawn out answer, some of a Rookie's wage at least is outside the cap.

Nice work TC.

 

[VitalDread]

Sorry VD, might be a silly question but what’s a mini-contract?

Veteran contract deal, not huge money but enough to keep dickson around

 

[BRWB]

Supposition that Power witnessed Gowers' lack of maturity lead to his delisting at Carlton and wants to keep him hungry by keeping him a rookie for an extra yr. Only reason I can think of. On talent and performance Gowers is probably top 15 or even 10 in the B and F and deserves a main list spot.

Also supporting the need for more rookie upgrades is IMO there is the number of players we may have to replace, the difficulty we have in replacing them, plus West and Khamis and trading our second meaning we are going to have shit picks after P5/6.

If Gowers is being kept on the rookie list then possibly we can assume less players are being delisted than we anticipate or we are losing some decent players to ensure we have the picks to cover our losses. Or Power has some decent cheap signings lined up.

 

[Mr. Walker]

So does the club promoting Lynch but not Gowers off the rookie list mean the Dogs rate Lynch as the better player or is there something else to be considered?

 

[Yojimbo]

So does the club promoting Lynch but not Gowers off the rookie list mean the Dogs rate Lynch as the better player or is there something else to be considered?

Lynch is a third year rookie !

 

[VitalDread]

So does the club promoting Lynch but not Gowers off the rookie list mean the Dogs rate Lynch as the better player or is there something else to be considered?

Gowers already been told its list management why he is staying on the rookie list but is a top 22 player for us

 

[Golden_6]

Gowers already been told its list management why he is staying on the rookie list but is a top 22 player for us

It's risky and I'm sure Gowers will want to stay and repay the club. In saying, what happens if another club gets wind of that and offers Billy $250k a year, which is miles ahead of a crappy 70k a year salary.

 

[dergert]

I remember suggesting we keep Gowers on the rookie list but it got hounded down. Toot toot.

Honestly though, if we have that available to us we should consider it. This is a great draft to top up our list in.

 

[scooter600x]

It's risky and I'm sure Gowers will want to stay and repay the club. In saying, what happens if another club gets wind of that and offers Billy $250k a year, which is miles ahead of a crappy 70k a year salary.

We can keep him on the rookie list but still pay him more

 

[Tommycash]

It's risky and I'm sure Gowers will want to stay and repay the club. In saying, what happens if another club gets wind of that and offers Billy $250k a year, which is miles ahead of a crappy 70k a year salary.

70k is the minimum wage for a Rookie. There is nothing to stop the club keeping him as a rookie and paying him the same wage he would get as a senior listed player. It also means at least some of his wage is not included in the cap so it allows us to do things like front load other contracts.

 

[Mofra]

Supposition that Power witnessed Gowers' lack of maturity lead to his delisting at Carlton and wants to keep him hungry by keeping him a rookie for an extra yr. Only reason I can think of. On talent and performance Gowers is probably top 15 or even 10 in the B and F and deserves a main list spot.

The only other reason I can think of is as a first year rookie we can keep him on the rookie list for two more years before upgrading him so if he has a two year contract it is probably the same security for Billy on the main or rookie list, difference being that not all of his salary is included in the cap as a rookie lister.

May be a smart strategy but I'd be more than happy to upgrade Gowers if he demanded it, I'm a fan.

 

[VitalDread]

The only other reason I can think of is as a first year rookie we can keep him on the rookie list for two more years before upgrading him so if he has a two year contract it is probably the same security for Billy on the main or rookie list, difference being that not all of his salary is included in the cap as a rookie lister.

May be a smart strategy but I'd be more than happy to upgrade Gowers if he demanded it, I'm a fan.

It helps that Rookie can play straight away so we don't need to rush any promotions since we have other list management to worry about

 

[The Falcon Strike]

Some people on Bigfooty, who I won't claim to be verifiable also have this to say, which does agree with the potentially complicated nature of Rookie Payments and the TPP.

I'm definitely not verifiable.. I must have just got lucky

 

[VitalDread]

Something that i like is playing Lynch up forward, though i strongly believe his role is better off half back or a wing.

His ability to take a mark and burn his defender has been great. Just flows through traffic and hits the target.

Gets caught somtimes but i rather him risk the kick or take the game on, similar to what Suckling or JJ does.

Hopefully next season he slots down back more and small time on the wing alongside Richards.

 

[Thunderoad]

Fergus Greene signs a one year extension taking his contract until the end of 2019.

http://m.westernbulldogs.com.au/news/2018-08-14/fergus-greene-resigns

Encouraging signs from Power.

I like the way he has played his cards to date though the real tests are yet to come.

 

[Next Waiting]

Gowers already been told its list management why he is staying on the rookie list but is a top 22 player for us

Guilty of not reading through the last few pages

but

would this not suggest that we're not cutting as deeply into the list as some have forecast. Outside of Smith, who is a certainty to go? Honeychurch perhaps the only sure delisting I can see. A case can be made that a number of others should go but Redpath and Picko through injury might be more certain.

Smith, Picko, Red, Honey and one of Roberts or Collins. 5 out , lynch promoted and 4 picks to take to the draft. Is that enough to get us to where we want to be for 2019?

There is an element of stability to less cuts.

 

[Bemoreboyddog]

Guilty of not reading through the last few pages

but

would this not suggest that we're not cutting as deeply into the list as some have forecast. Outside of Smith, who is a certainty to go? Honeychurch perhaps the only sure delisting I can see. A case can be made that a number of others should go but Redpath and Picko through injury might be more certain.

Smith, Picko, Red, Honey and one of Roberts or Collins. 5 out , lynch promoted and 4 picks to take to the draft. Is that enough to get us to where we want to be for 2019?

There is an element of stability to less cuts.

Been pretty steady for two years and we’ve had two crap years of football.

Cut. Cut deeply.

 

[go you pups]

Fergus Greene signs a one year extension taking his contract until the end of 2019.

http://m.westernbulldogs.com.au/news/2018-08-14/fergus-greene-resigns

Encouraging signs from Power.

I like the way he has played his cards to date though the real tests are yet to come.

Not sure about that

Not exactly a real show of faith in the kid only giving him a one year extension

Trengove, Boyd, English, Gowers, Dunkley and Jong already gives us six ruck options. Bitcoin will never play for us again.

Can add Cordy, Schache and Bont to that list of ruckman too

Maybe even Redpath if he plays again

 

[Next Waiting]

Been pretty steady for two years and we’ve had two crap years of football.

Cut. Cut deeply.

How do we reconcile that view with there not being enough spots available to promote Gowers to the main list. If we cleaned out 9 to 10 surely one of those spots would go to Gowers.

 

[fronkalicious]

Not sure about that

Not exactly a real show of faith in the kid only giving him a one year extension

Can add Cordy, Schache and Bont to that list of ruckman too

Maybe even Redpath if he plays again

Maybe greene’s backing himself with the 1 year deal.

 

[Mojorisin]

I'd say the ones to make way would be honeychuch Picken roughead campbell and Redpath with Collins being delisted and re-rookie drafted.
Upgrading lynch to the main list

 

[Next Waiting]

If it pans out that there isn't a big list turnover this year (say 6 or more) what might influence that?

Should that happen it's possible that the list management and coaching staff might actually be happy with/rate 90% of our list cf bf 60%.

Another factor might be that both Bevo and Joel Corey came from very successful clubs where the players (particularly the senior players) were prepared cap their own pay cheques in order ensure a reasonably equitable distribution of the cap to keep a successful or potentially successful playing group/list together and to foster an inclusive and united environment. This also allowed them to cherry pick top talent when it became available. Richmond are also showing signs of this.

Perhaps this thinking is starting to infiltrate our club.

An alternative explanation is that the previous contract/list managers stuffed up and it will take another year to fix. That appears to be the default position of the board but the above is also possible.

 

[TMoney22]

Gaff costing too much??? wow how much do you want to pay for someone probably top 3 in the brownlow and the type of player we need. Say we draft Rankin and he turns out to be as good as Gaff we would be laughing, yet we have someone without all the risk of a draft pick in front of us ripe for picking - we should go for it

 

[Mojorisin]

Gaff costing too much??? wow how much do you want to pay for someone probably top 3 in the brownlow and the type of player we need. Say we draft Rankin and he turns out to be as good as Gaff we would be laughing, yet we have someone without all the risk of a draft pick in front of us ripe for picking - we should go for it

I'd much prefer throwing the kitchen sink at Kelly. Probably a pipedream though

 

[flipper83]

Reckon Bont new contract will be back loaded up to 1.5mil a year

Why would we need to back load his contract? Does it mean someone else coming in?