Strategy Trade and List management Thread (cont in Part 2)

[Zephiisdaman]

How much would Jack Martin cost do people think? Would surely involve our first, no?

He's a handy player. But in no way has he repaid the mini draft cost to originally get him.
If Stringer got us a second round pick, then I would suggest that Martin should cost similar. Stringer would have been worth more other than his off-field proclivities. I personally think Martin is grossly over-rated by too many on our boards.
I would take him but certainly not sell the farm compared to Shiel who I would.

 

[grassman75]

This forum has actively smashed Billings week in week out as a dud and a pick before Bont.

Now some(that were part of the smashing) think he could be an option.

Lol HE GOT DROPPED FROM STKILDA to the VFL but this bloke can help us? I’d rather resign Jong to a multi year mega deal.

Billings is a complete and utter spud

Can I get this stickies to the top of this thread forever?

"I'd rather re-sign Jong to a multi year mega deal" - the rest of the quote just gets lost. That's how journalistic integrity and research works right?

 

[Dogs Rule]

Please don't tell me how I'll feel about something it's incredibly presumptuous and a little offensive.

OK, you feel however you want to feel and I'll feel how I want to feel.

Some people take themselves way too seriously.

 

[Golden_6]

The whole ‘dynamic’ of the playing group and culture is going to change this offseason.

Interesting that all the people that seem closest to Libba will be gone (Dahl, Biggs, Redpath, Smith).

 

[BrisDog]

The whole ‘dynamic’ of the playing group and culture is going to change this offseason.

Interesting that all the people that seem closest to Libba will be gone (Dahl, Biggs, Redpath, Smith).

Don’t worry mate - Gowers is pretty handy at the disco

 

[dergert]

Paying a player over 500k just because we need to pay someone is amateur IMO. Its what Carlton have done, two years ago they had barely any salary cap left because they were overpaying spuds.

 

[WallyStringhaus]

I wonder where this leaves us with Libba. On Bob Murphy's podcast with Tom he made mention of a "gang" within the club called the surrealists. They hung together and even had their own language when communicating. Libba, Biggs, Dahl, Redpath and Webb were the core of this crew.

If he signs on for next year chances are he'll be the last one standing. Although i don't think anyone would blink an eye if he was sitting in a corner on his own communicating to himself in a different language!

 

[maddog37]

I don’t think Bevo likes players that don’t keep their feet in the contest.

 

[Mofra]

Paying a player over 500k just because we need to pay someone is amateur IMO. Its what Carlton have done, two years ago they had barely any salary cap left because they were overpaying spuds.

If you don't meet the 95% cap floor you take a salary cap penalty into subsequent years. It's why we front loaded contracts and have the current FA debacle we currently do with multiple players unrestricted (i.e. they are outside the top 25% of earners).

 

[immortalmike]

OK, you feel however you want to feel and I'll feel how I want to feel.

Some people take themselves way too seriously.

Thanks for the permission to feel the way I want to feel.

 

[Mofra]

I do think if this team loses Adams, Dahlhaus, Wallis, Rough, and has the usual dose of bullshit injuries, we are in serious danger of another trip to the bottom 4. At which point the pressure will start to come on the coach.

People on here being nonchalant about not having the Dahlaus/Wallis signatures are forgetting that they were both in our bests at times this season in a 13th placed team and both usually pretty reliable from a fitness perspective, bar freak injuries.

Adams/roughead going west I can deal with. You're still talking about 3.5 reasonably consistent quality AFL footballers there and potentially replacing them with kids that aren't ready or inferior older guys.

Bingo. We've been the youngest side on the paddock most weeks and we're getting rid of a player who is clearly best 22.
I'm really perplexed by the Dahlhaus issue. Prior to this year he was one of the most durable players we had (heck, even this year he's ahead of the curve) and he can play pressure forward - we were playing Lynch in this role who has real pace, good footskills but applies less pressure than a baby duck.

I don't think Dahl's desperation is something that can be taught. It's innate. That will be the hard bit to replace.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

The whole ‘dynamic’ of the playing group and culture is going to change this offseason.

Interesting that all the people that seem closest to Libba will be gone (Dahl, Biggs, Redpath, Smith).

Yes, I noticed that too...

 

[mambavino]

I know it's been spoken about in this thread already, but interestingly in the "finals predictions" feature in the Herald Scum today Sam Landsberger has given his smokey prediction as Jarryd Roughead moving to another team coached by one of Clarkson's former disciples.

Does he know something or is he just taking a wild swing? It seems to go against other reports that Roughead is still trying to recruit Tom Lynch to the Hawks.

 

[footyfan000001]

Am I not allowed to be worried?

You don’t think the list above is a concern?

Sorry but there has been about 80% negative from our club the last two years, unlike most I can’t and won’t live in fairy land and deny the truth mate.

Unfortunately this place is just an extension of the real world, pretend everything is ok and it might happen one day.

We won a flag and have had two years in the wolderness(STILL NO REAL REASON WHY THAT HAD TO HAPPEN) and next year will be worse imo.

Mate I’m not denying that I’m unhappy about the last two years - all dogs fans should be. But it is hard to sit back and be completely depressed when we have Richards, Naughton, Bont, Dunkley, Macrae, Cordy, Boyd, Libba back, Gowers, Lipinski, Daniel, JJ. Pick 7 and West to come in also. Yes we won the flag, and the past two years have been crap but we have what we have in front of us and now it’s time to win another with this young crop.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

Bingo. We've been the youngest side on the paddock most weeks and we're getting rid of a player who is clearly best 22.
I'm really perplexed by the Dahlhaus issue. Prior to this year he was one of the most durable players we had (heck, even this year he's ahead of the curve) and he can play pressure forward - we were playing Lynch in this role who has real pace, good footskills but applies less pressure than a baby duck.

I don't think Dahl's desperation is something that can be taught. It's innate. That will be the hard bit to replace.

Are you not then perplexed by his refusal to accept our offer, in light of that post-flag interview people keep harking back to? Should he have been rewarded on the basis of sentiment, and his 2016 heroics, or on his current trajectory which has been downwards? Should he have been the one with the sentiment and repeated, I love this club and will accept the lesser offer so I can stay (which he COULD have done)? Do you think we should have matched Geelong's $500k 4-yr terms, for a player of his recent output (durability and pressure notwithstanding) when we might better spend the money on an upgrade (yet to be determined and proven I know) or as I suspect, a culture change driven by Bevo? Teams have to keep evolving, ours is no different.

 

[CaptainMurphy]

I know it's been spoken about in this thread already, but interestingly in the "finals predictions" feature in the Herald Scum today Sam Landsberger has given his smokey prediction as Jarryd Roughead moving to another team coached by one of Clarkson's former disciples.

Does he know something or is he just taking a wild swing? It seems to go against other reports that Roughead is still trying to recruit Tom Lynch to the Hawks.

Is Landsberger the one that always seems to know stuff about us?

 

[compact72]

Is Landsberger the one that always seems to know stuff about us?

Correct

 

[mambavino]

Ameet Bains on SEN to talk about Dahl at 10am

 

[Mofra]

Are you not then perplexed by his refusal to accept our offer, in light of that post-flag interview people keep harking back to? Should he have been rewarded on the basis of sentiment, and his 2016 heroics, or on his current trajectory which has been downwards? Should he have been the one with the sentiment and repeated, I love this club and will accept the lesser offer so I can stay (which he COULD have done)? Do you think we should have matched Geelong's $500k 4-yr terms, for a player of his recent output (durability and pressure notwithstanding) when we might better spend the money on an upgrade (yet to be determined and proven I know) or as I suspect, a culture change driven by Bevo? Teams have to keep evolving, ours is no different.

Our offer is clearly a fair bit lower - the rumours suggesting circa $350k pa and one year less (and length seems to be the sticking point) indicate the club clearly don't rate him that highly. I have no doubt he'd sign for less money if we got close to Geelong's offer but that is clearly not the case.

We have plenty of players to cut/trade before a senior player who does have elite traits and given our age profile who the hell are we paying? Average AFL salary is over $381k pa and as the 13th placed side we surely have the cap room to accommodate a player like Dahlhuas, especially considering Geelong can clearly afford him.

As for "teams have to keep evolving", can you point to where I or others have said any different? Otherwise, just keep your arguments to reality. thanks.

 

[maddog37]

Bingo. We've been the youngest side on the paddock most weeks and we're getting rid of a player who is clearly best 22.
I'm really perplexed by the Dahlhaus issue. Prior to this year he was one of the most durable players we had (heck, even this year he's ahead of the curve) and he can play pressure forward - we were playing Lynch in this role who has real pace, good footskills but applies less pressure than a baby duck.

I don't think Dahl's desperation is something that can be taught. It's innate. That will be the hard bit to replace.

Libba coming back will be better than Dal. Dunks is already better than Dal. West similar type but theoretically a higher ceiling.

It’s pretty clear to me what the club is thinking.

 

[Mofra]

Libba coming back will be better than Dal. Dunks is already better than Dal. West similar type but theoretically a higher ceiling.

It’s pretty clear to me what the club is thinking.

Libba is quality but purely inside, Dunks I like but is a worse kick than Dahl and his best form was purely inside too.
West is on base salary for 2 years so cap isn't an issue with West who may not be ready next year anyway (although I would swap West for any Honeychurch game TBH.).

Dahl has played outside, pressure forward, run-with roles and we don't seem to be under any cap pressure at all. Seems to be the type if he was an opposition player and we could sign him for no draft picks we'd be all over him.
If we sign Jong who is less of a footballer than Dahlhaus that just seems like madness.

 

[Mutt]

Libba is quality but purely inside, Dunks I like but is a worse kick than Dahl and his best form was purely inside too.
West is on base salary for 2 years so cap isn't an issue with West who may not be ready next year anyway (although I would swap West for any Honeychurch game TBH.).

Dahl has played outside, pressure forward, run-with roles and we don't seem to be under any cap pressure at all. Seems to be the type if he was an opposition player and we could sign him for no draft picks we'd be all over him.
If we sign Jong who is less of a footballer than Dahlhaus that just seems like madness.

Dahlhaus is making the decision to leave. We have an offer on the table according to the club. None of us really know what we have offered Dahl, nor what Geelong have offered. It seems to me that Dahl is leaving for more money and security, as is his right. Until we know for sure what the numbers, are I find it hard to land on a firm position as to whether we have made a responsible offer or whether we have low-balled Dahl.

I am not in favour of the club over-paying based on sentimentality. Based on Luke's output of late he will struggle to be best 22 over the next few years, so fair value for Dahlhaus is probably around the average player salary in my view.

 

[Yojimbo]

It seems to go against other reports that Roughead is still trying to recruit Tom Lynch to the Hawks.

The way Hawthorn have dealt with their senior players lately, Roughead could be offering Lynch his spot. Clarkson is a ruthless little
bastard when it comes to moving forward at all costs.

 

[doggies ftw]

Libba is quality but purely inside, Dunks I like but is a worse kick than Dahl and his best form was purely inside too.
West is on base salary for 2 years so cap isn't an issue with West who may not be ready next year anyway (although I would swap West for any Honeychurch game TBH.).

Dahl has played outside, pressure forward, run-with roles and we don't seem to be under any cap pressure at all. Seems to be the type if he was an opposition player and we could sign him for no draft picks we'd be all over him.
If we sign Jong who is less of a footballer than Dahlhaus that just seems like madness.

Whether Libba gets the ball inside or outside Id much prefer the ball in his hands than Dahl. I even like him forward better because hes a tackling machine and is great in front of goals. I dont think Dunkleys a worse kick either and hes definitely more creative by hand. Also hits the scoreboard and much better in the air.

 

[CaptainMurphy]

From the Bains interview:

It was clear pretty early from both sides Dahl would be going.
Doesn't sound like we were close to keeping him. Sounds like we were a fair way from Geelong's offer.
Brought up Motlop's contract as a similar contract and an example for what compensation should be.
Didn't enquire about what the compo would be before making the decision.
After a mix of players and picks in the offseason, a "balanced approach".
Haven't had any formal confirmation from Roughead that he's made a decision. "Certainly a possibility" he will leave.
No results yet on Libba and Wallis either. Want it resolved "sooner than later".
"Of those guys mentioned, some of them will be there next year" (Libba, Wallis, Roughead).