Discussion Random Discussion

[SaintsSeptember]

It was suggested that Farmers are stupid for voting National , hence voting for more coal stations by default and shooting themselves in the foot.
Sorry its not the farmers that are stupid.
Its those that think who the farmers vote for will affect the climate.
USA and China. That's where the damage is being done.
And those who sit in their glorified strata flat in the city and preach to the farmers about how stupid they are have no respect from me.

We have a democracy. Have the Chinese followed our good example and put a democracy in place?
We don't feed plastic to our children. Have the Chinese followed our good example?
ohhhh but they'r gunnu do something.

We will not end up paying more for renewables because we didn't start doing it sooner, that's complete nonsense.

 

[gringo2011]

It was suggested that Farmers are stupid for voting National , hence voting for more coal stations by default and shooting themselves in the foot.
Sorry its not the farmers that are stupid.
Its those that think who the farmers vote for will affect the climate.
USA and China. That's where the damage is being done.
And those who sit in their glorified strata flat in the city and preach to the farmers about how stupid they are have no respect from me.

We have a democracy. Have the Chinese followed our good example and put a democracy in place?
We don't feed plastic to our children. Have the Chinese followed our good example?
ohhhh but they'r gunnu do something.

We will not end up paying more for renewables because we didn't start doing it sooner, that's complete nonsense.

You will end up with less power than we need because nothing was done 10 years ago. Policy to incentivise investment is smart management. China is doing somethings well and something are terrible. Just like the US, no country is a utopia. China have some horrendous issues but to think the west is ideal is pretty naive too. Plenty of our allies are arseholes of the highest order, we only pull out human rights and respect for humanity and democracy when it suits us. Both need to clean up their messes, the US is choosing to step completely away and China is having a bet each way. At least a foot in the pool is something.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

You will end up with less power than we need because nothing was done 10 years ago. Policy to incentivise investment is smart management. China is doing somethings well and something are terrible. Just like the US, no country is a utopia. China have some horrendous issues but to think the west is ideal is pretty naive too. Plenty of our allies are arseholes of the highest order, we only pull out human rights and respect for humanity and democracy when it suits us. Both need to clean up their messes, the US is choosing to step completely away and China is having a bet each way. At least a foot in the pool is something.

To me the government needed to step in and somehow make some arrangements for State of the Art Gas Power to be built. ( the lowest impact high volume base load power apart from Nuclear. I prefer Nuclear but i think there needs to be a lot of debate and education before that can get off the ground ).
Otherwise the situation like South Australia had will only get worse.


Unfortunately there's only one planet.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons

Imagine a small farm shared by four farmers.

The far is the optimal size to support 8 sheep, and each farmer has 2. It results in 2 fat sheep for each to take to market.
What happens when one of them decides to add an extra sheep. The 9 sheep are thinner than the previous 8, but the guy with 3 still does better.
The other farmers then decide what to do.
Do you keep your 2 sheep, and make less money because they are scrawny after the others add extra sheep? ( and maybe hope that by setting example they will realise the error of their ways ).
Do you copy the greedy guy and add another sheep?

There is no answer.

If they all add extra sheep all the sheep end up practically starving.
If one guy doesn't do it, he still has two really skinny sheep, and he earns less than the others. Maybe he goes broke and needs to stop farming.

Heads you lose. Tails you lose. The good guy loses the most.

On a National level a government can step in and legislate .
On a global level... no-one can tell whoever is being recalcitrant what to do. They can be pressured to an extent.

 

[st_trav_ofWA]

No i'm not selling the future.
You want to charge at windmills.
Which organisations are going to train our children to develop solutions?
Schools don't drive this stuff, big organisations with R@D do.
None of them are in Australia.

When we have technology at universities or organisations we sell it.
We are are good at medicine... and um... making coffee.
Neither of these skills is useful for preventing global warming.
I'm sorry but being realistic about our capabilities is not selling our future.
You can't save 1 % of the planet. We need the people who have the power to do it. Places like Nauru and Fiji also don't have the power to do it. We need the USA and China to fix it. Once they develop good stuff, we can buy it off them, like we do with Aeroplanes and computers and software and other things that use technology. The whole we is Australia and we is smart cos we invented the lawnmower thinking is totally flawed. We have next to no technology companies, and when the government give out grants, companies scam the money.

Now read slowly.

IF WE STOP PRODUCING ANY CO2 AT ALL THE GLOBAL EMMISSIONS WILL INCREASE.

BECAUSE THEY ARE GLOBAL.

I have no interest in doing somersaults because people like you want to feel good about doing something. Its a placebo you want to give yourself.

fine stick your head in the sand then ....
an you are compleatly wrong about our future generation and their ability your dinosaur thought process is what holds back innovation and sadly its the greedy arrogant flogs in Canberra who think the same as you do... they dont understand the problem so they put it in the too hard basket and we are sold a vision that its too expensive and it will make little differance anyway ...
you have litterally no idea how advanced Australia could be in providing soloutions if we have leaders who were interested in actually finding solutions .... our leaders and your thinking is like saying - "why learn how to cook a meal when we can just buy take out"
i happen to work in an industry where we have a dedicated innovation department who's job it is to question the way things have always been done and push the boundarys to see if there is a better way to do things ... as a nation we have a huge disportionate amount of innovators and thinkers who have changed the world compared to our population ... heck John O'Sullivan didnt just sit back and let China develop working Wifi he with his group at the CSIRO did that... but then what happened ... yeah we cut funding for the CSIRO .. i wonder why ? maybe because they were starting to develop technology to solve energy issues in Australia ? at my work we have one of the former CSIRO engineers who was "made redundant" from the CSIRO due to funding cuts and some of the stuff (i cant go into detail) he is developing in my industry is world changing ...
we are fed bullshit on our countrys abilities , its almost like our leaders want our nation dumbed down when we more than hold our own so yes cutting emmisions in Australia does not much to global warming on the global scale but if we are embracing the solution and developing the solution the idea that can change the world could be just around the corner .. the solution WE could sell to the world (much like Wifi) the solution that China the US and India could implement to make the big differance ... but putting our head in the sand and pretending its not our problem does nothing ..
you say pissing on the fire does nothing but waiting until the fire has taken over your house before you start looking for an answer or hoping someone else will come save you is just plain stupid..

 

[SaintsSeptember]

fine stick your head in the sand then ....
an you are compleatly wrong about our future generation and their ability your dinosaur thought process is what holds back innovation and sadly its the greedy arrogant flogs in Canberra who think the same as you do... they dont understand the problem so they put it in the too hard basket and we are sold a vision that its too expensive and it will make little differance anyway ...
you have litterally no idea how advanced Australia could be in providing soloutions if we have leaders who were interested in actually finding solutions .... our leaders and your thinking is like saying - "why learn how to cook a meal when we can just buy take out"
i happen to work in an industry where we have a dedicated innovation department who's job it is to question the way things have always been done and push the boundarys to see if there is a better way to do things ... as a nation we have a huge disportionate amount of innovators and thinkers who have changed the world compared to our population ... heck John O'Sullivan didnt just sit back and let China develop working Wifi he with his group at the CSIRO did that... but then what happened ... yeah we cut funding for the CSIRO .. i wonder why ? maybe because they were starting to develop technology to solve energy issues in Australia ? at my work we have one of the former CSIRO engineers who was "made redundant" from the CSIRO due to funding cuts and some of the stuff (i cant go into detail) he is developing in my industry is world changing ...
we are fed bullshit on our countrys abilities , its almost like our leaders want our nation dumbed down when we more than hold our own so yes cutting emmisions in Australia does not much to global warming on the global scale but if we are embracing the solution and developing the solution the idea that can change the world could be just around the corner .. the solution WE could sell to the world (much like Wifi) the solution that China the US and India could implement to make the big differance ... but putting our head in the sand and pretending its not our problem does nothing ..
you say pissing on the fire does nothing but waiting until the fire has taken over your house before you start looking for an answer or hoping someone else will come save you is just plain stupid..

Head in the sand? Which issues do you think i am wrong about?

Insults...yep they get results.

That's "literally" and its incorrect. I'm not unqualified. I even spent some time at Perth working for the company that your inventor ditched for real estate after getting rich of his own insider trading. Yes we can develop skills/technology. We could make mobile phones, software cars. Electronics. But we don't and we won't suddenly be able to do it next week. We are already dumbed down. We used to be a lot better in a lot of area's than we are now. The idiots running the government really don't know how it works. They gave Toyota money to build hybrid cars here, cos " developing local teknolgy skills n stuff ". Toyota then trained their workforce to take hybrid engines out of boxes and put them in cars.

Are we now the world leaders in Wifi technology?

When you go to University to study Engineering ( for example ) part of it is a work experience placement. Where shall we place all our innovator? Fred's Bricklaying co? The kind of people you need for this stuff is not Thomas Edison with a light bulb lighting up above his head, we need people who are capable of
painstakingly working their way through the issues.

Maybe i am old fashioned, the current trend seems to be , "just think of it and we can do it ". So they build hoverboards that don't hover.

Yes we COULD , become leaders in energy technology. But we aren't , and we aren't heading that way, we are not trying to become the leaders in anything.


CSRIO top 10.
10. Softly Laundry Detergent. Soap and Cleaning Compound Manufacturing. Colgate-Palmolive (USA) and Unilever ( British Dutch ) .
The industry contracted significantly between 2010-11 and 2013-14, as former key players moved manufacturing facilities offshore to countries with lower
operating costs

9. Self Twisting Yarn. Well we still have sheep . There is still some textile development going on in Australia and , not really textiles, but our Universities have developed some pretty good systems for Carbon Fibre. Recently a Carbon Fibre plant was going to be built in Geelong, but they decided to move it offshore.

8. BarleyMax. Low GI Barley, bred from barley strains, without genetic modification. Agriculture technology remains relevant in Australia, and has been identified as an area for development. Far more relevant than for us to suddenly jump on board the diverse set of skills and technologies for environmentally sustainable farming.

7. RAFT Polymerisation. Essentially a method for controlling the physical properties of plastics being built. They teamed up with Du Pont. Like most big USA companies, DuPont's presence in Australia is limeted to sales.

6. The "Total Wellbeing diet" Yep.. food again. Did they publish this diet in the Weekly?

5. Aerogard . 1938 we invented it. I don't think we are world leaders in insecticide technology nowdays. Not bothering to check.

4. Extended wear contact lenses. Of course the partners were Swiss and USA based. Medical development does seem to be an area we are strong in though. Not relevant to Energy production.

3. Hendra Virus Vaccine. A vaccination for an Equine disease. Medical again.

2. Plastic Banknotes. We are actually amongst the best in the world at Banknote Technology. I'm not sure which other countries have followed suite.

1. Wifi. Was sold to Cisco. We have no current "special" wifi capabilities.


Now the issue with Power Generation is that it involves complex systems. Small focused research items may be important to solve specific issues, but the CSRIO is not an entity that's likely to suddenly have a bright idea about how to build a thermal solar power station with molten salt storage.

If we choose to be technologically relevant, we need to choose our fields. It seems to be gravitating towards agriculture and medicine.

 

[st_trav_ofWA]

if you dont understand the reasoning why we dont make mobile phones here and think its because we are not skilled enough to do so then that says it all really ...

as Michael Jordan said "you miss 100% of the shots you dont take" so your solution to an issue is to sit back and let the likes of china develop it cause you know its too hard and cost money and stuff ... we may not have the answer but far out its worth trying ...
and lets be honest here this is our future we are talking about .. the old dudes making the decisions wont be here for the fall out it will land on my generation and the generations coming behind me that have to deal with it ... but hey at least you get slightly cheaper power bills

 

[StCicatriz]

I think climate change is undeniable, irregardless of causation. And most of us are aware of and accept what scientists are touting as the increasing consequences of climate change; changing precipitation patterns, longer periods of frost free weather, more intense weather events, loss of polar ice, higher average global temperatures, seasonal shift, etc.

I think most of us deep down though believe that human kind will have the ability to adjust through technological innovation and the resilience that homo sapiens are renowned for. Nobody can accurately forecast though what the economic and geopolitical consequences will be, and what effect that is likely to have on a global scale. Extended droughts and heat stress are just the early onset symptoms. But if average temperatures continue to rise by just a couple of degrees salt water creep, loss of habitat, animal extinction, agricultural decline are all anticipated scenarios. The most pessimistic projections suggest that eventually 65% of humans will be re-settled, and eventually lead to a complete collapse in social and political order. But again, at this stage, it is really just the oeuvre of futurists.

But most all scientists do agree that the longer global warming goes unchecked, the harder it becomes to arrest. At this stage I think there is a strong consensus within the scientific community that at least 1 degree of warming is completely unavoidable. The Australian government has predicted that 1.5 degree warming is likely in every single scenario other than "the most ambitious mitigation scenario" which would "require early participation from all emitters, including developing countries, as well as the application of technologies for actively removing carbon dioxide from the atmosphere." See link below.

Scientists also agree that (and I quote from the Australian government website):

• It is very likely that anthropogenic influence, particularly greenhouse gases and stratospheric ozone depletion, has led to a detectable observed pattern of tropospheric warming and a corresponding cooling in the lower stratosphere since 1961.
• It is now very likely that human influence has contributed to observed global scale changes in the frequency and intensity of daily temperature extremes since the mid-20th century, and likely that human influence has more than doubled the probability of occurrence of heat waves in some locations.
• There is high confidence that changes in total solar irradiance have not contributed to the increase in global mean surface temperature over the period 1986 to 2008, based on direct satellite measurements of total solar irradiance.

So, if our best minds are in consensus about the fact that climate is changing, that we are very likely the cause, and that it will worsen exponentially, unless we collectively do something about it, can we at least commit to living a little differently? Especially before someone decides that Tasmania is worth waging a war over. Forget about other countries, control what you can, insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different outcome...yada yada yada.

https://www.climatechangeinaustrali...pus/global-climate-change/global-projections/

For anyone that is interested NASA has a great interactive website that most people will enjoy. Link below.

https://climate.nasa.gov/

woah well summed up post and a good explanation for someone not familiar with the subject

hey what causes this "stratospheric ozone depletion"

 

[gringo2011]

Head in the sand? Which issues do you think i am wrong about?

Insults...yep they get results.

That's "literally" and its incorrect. I'm not unqualified. I even spent some time at Perth working for the company that your inventor ditched for real estate after getting rich of his own insider trading. Yes we can develop skills/technology. We could make mobile phones, software cars. Electronics. But we don't and we won't suddenly be able to do it next week. We are already dumbed down. We used to be a lot better in a lot of area's than we are now. The idiots running the government really don't know how it works. They gave Toyota money to build hybrid cars here, cos " developing local teknolgy skills n stuff ". Toyota then trained their workforce to take hybrid engines out of boxes and put them in cars.

Are we now the world leaders in Wifi technology?

When you go to University to study Engineering ( for example ) part of it is a work experience placement. Where shall we place all our innovator? Fred's Bricklaying co? The kind of people you need for this stuff is not Thomas Edison with a light bulb lighting up above his head, we need people who are capable of
painstakingly working their way through the issues.

Maybe i am old fashioned, the current trend seems to be , "just think of it and we can do it ". So they build hoverboards that don't hover.

Yes we COULD , become leaders in energy technology. But we aren't , and we aren't heading that way, we are not trying to become the leaders in anything.


CSRIO top 10.
10. Softly Laundry Detergent. Soap and Cleaning Compound Manufacturing. Colgate-Palmolive (USA) and Unilever ( British Dutch ) .
The industry contracted significantly between 2010-11 and 2013-14, as former key players moved manufacturing facilities offshore to countries with lower
operating costs

9. Self Twisting Yarn. Well we still have sheep . There is still some textile development going on in Australia and , not really textiles, but our Universities have developed some pretty good systems for Carbon Fibre. Recently a Carbon Fibre plant was going to be built in Geelong, but they decided to move it offshore.

8. BarleyMax. Low GI Barley, bred from barley strains, without genetic modification. Agriculture technology remains relevant in Australia, and has been identified as an area for development. Far more relevant than for us to suddenly jump on board the diverse set of skills and technologies for environmentally sustainable farming.

7. RAFT Polymerisation. Essentially a method for controlling the physical properties of plastics being built. They teamed up with Du Pont. Like most big USA companies, DuPont's presence in Australia is limeted to sales.

6. The "Total Wellbeing diet" Yep.. food again. Did they publish this diet in the Weekly?

5. Aerogard . 1938 we invented it. I don't think we are world leaders in insecticide technology nowdays. Not bothering to check.

4. Extended wear contact lenses. Of course the partners were Swiss and USA based. Medical development does seem to be an area we are strong in though. Not relevant to Energy production.

3. Hendra Virus Vaccine. A vaccination for an Equine disease. Medical again.

2. Plastic Banknotes. We are actually amongst the best in the world at Banknote Technology. I'm not sure which other countries have followed suite.

1. Wifi. Was sold to Cisco. We have no current "special" wifi capabilities.


Now the issue with Power Generation is that it involves complex systems. Small focused research items may be important to solve specific issues, but the CSRIO is not an entity that's likely to suddenly have a bright idea about how to build a thermal solar power station with molten salt storage.

If we choose to be technologically relevant, we need to choose our fields. It seems to be gravitating towards agriculture and medicine.

I think you are being a bit harsh, Atlassian are going pretty well right now and BHP was a big Aussie company that made it word wide before selling out to overseas. Plenty of others too. The government under Howard moved to make the CSIRO a profit making exercise. It now writes diets and health books because it's easy money. Research has dropped away. Most universities are in the same boa. My wife worked for Melbourne Uni as a lawyer commercialising research. They sell most of profitable stuff below cost to industry and tend to focus on easy money too. It's actually pretty depressing how we have made research into a commodity and if there is no instant gratification to justify current grants the research doesn't get done.

We have deliberately hamstrung ourselves in a culture war.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

if you dont understand the reasoning why we dont make mobile phones here and think its because we are not skilled enough to do so then that says it all really ...

as Michael Jordan said "you miss 100% of the shots you dont take" so your solution to an issue is to sit back and let the likes of china develop it cause you know its too hard and cost money and stuff ... we may not have the answer but far out its worth trying ...
and lets be honest here this is our future we are talking about .. the old dudes making the decisions wont be here for the fall out it will land on my generation and the generations coming behind me that have to deal with it ... but hey at least you get slightly cheaper power bills

What a load of emotional crap. OHHHH boo hoo won't someone thing of the children.
No its not our future . Our future is being controlled by those in China and the USA.
I know it irks you to be helpless , but its the fact. You can jerk off as fast as you like, you can "do your bit" but it won't help.
If we put out ZERO co2 from Australia , the GLOBAL CO2 emissions would still go up next year.
The Chinese are big heros because they are increasing their output less than last year.

Do what you want, i hope it makes you feel good. But if we install solar panels and windmills in Australia ( which we buy from overseas and would be foolish to try to re- invent ) its not going to do much to save your children.

And yes the reason we can't "design" mobile phones, is the same reason we aren't experts in power stations. We don't know how.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

During ww2 , they banned the sale of "cream" because it was a luxury item. Farmers then proceeded to throw the stuff out because it came with the milk.
But hey our population were all doing their bit by joining the suffering.

 

[st_trav_ofWA]

What a load of emotional crap. OHHHH boo hoo won't someone thing of the children.
No its not our future . Our future is being controlled by those in China and the USA.
I know it irks you to be helpless , but its the fact. You can jerk off as fast as you like, you can "do your bit" but it won't help.
If we put out ZERO co2 from Australia , the GLOBAL CO2 emissions would still go up next year.
The Chinese are big heros because they are increasing their output less than last year.

Do what you want, i hope it makes you feel good. But if we install solar panels and windmills in Australia ( which we buy from overseas and would be foolish to try to re- invent ) its not going to do much to save your children.

And yes the reason we can't "design" mobile phones, is the same reason we aren't experts in power stations. We don't know how.

you are a waste of time ... thankfully your outdated views will die out with you and the next generation will fix the garbage you leave behind for them to fix ...
you have no clue what we are on the verge of reaching 20 years ago the idea of having powerful processors in childrens toys was unheard of 10 years ago the unmanned machinery working kilometres under ground was unthinkable but here we are with both .. our country is run by egotisitcal selfcentred greed merchants who only care about living out their days comfortable ... the worst generation of all human existance ...
we are not helpless at all we are being held back thats the issue ... the older generation are so piss scared of being left behind that they put road blocks to slow the generation behind them down ...

lastly i know a person in R&D working for apple in the US designing phones ... shes from Albany here in Western Australia .. try telling her she doesnt know how ... arrogant flog

 

[gringo2011]

you are a waste of time ... thankfully your outdated views will die out with you and the next generation will fix the garbage you leave behind for them to fix ...
you have no clue what we are on the verge of reaching 20 years ago the idea of having powerful processors in childrens toys was unheard of 10 years ago the unmanned machinery working kilometres under ground was unthinkable but here we are with both .. our country is run by egotisitcal selfcentred greed merchants who only care about living out their days comfortable ... the worst generation of all human existance ...
we are not helpless at all we are being held back thats the issue ... the older generation are so piss scared of being left behind that they put road blocks to slow the generation behind them down ...

lastly i know a person in R&D working for apple in the US designing phones ... shes from Albany here in Western Australia .. try telling her she doesnt know how ... arrogant flog

It's feels like the world is in a really bad place economically, environmentally and socially right now. I think history shows that extreme wealth discrepancy and people feeling like they don't trust the system always ends in major change. I have a bit of hope that the next generation can do a lot to change to something more equitable, ethical and sustainable. I'd like my kids to have a good life not necessarily one that has levels of success measured on what they consume and earn. It's quite insane that we know whats wrong but won't move towards fixing it now but as you say perhaps the older generation need to step down first. Hopefully soon so that there is something left to work with.

 

[MUFKilda]

you are a waste of time ... thankfully your outdated views will die out with you and the next generation will fix the garbage you leave behind for them to fix ...
you have no clue what we are on the verge of reaching 20 years ago the idea of having powerful processors in childrens toys was unheard of 10 years ago the unmanned machinery working kilometres under ground was unthinkable but here we are with both .. our country is run by egotisitcal selfcentred greed merchants who only care about living out their days comfortable ... the worst generation of all human existance ...
we are not helpless at all we are being held back thats the issue ... the older generation are so piss scared of being left behind that they put road blocks to slow the generation behind them down ...

lastly i know a person in R&D working for apple in the US designing phones ... shes from Albany here in Western Australia .. try telling her she doesnt know how ... arrogant flog

Trav going full savage.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

you are a waste of time ... thankfully your outdated views will die out with you and the next generation will fix the garbage you leave behind for them to fix ...
you have no clue what we are on the verge of reaching 20 years ago the idea of having powerful processors in childrens toys was unheard of 10 years ago the unmanned machinery working kilometres under ground was unthinkable but here we are with both .. our country is run by egotisitcal selfcentred greed merchants who only care about living out their days comfortable ... the worst generation of all human existance ...
we are not helpless at all we are being held back thats the issue ... the older generation are so piss scared of being left behind that they put road blocks to slow the generation behind them down ...

lastly i know a person in R&D working for apple in the US designing phones ... shes from Albany here in Western Australia .. try telling her she doesnt know how ... arrogant flog

Outdated
Yeah its a fashion.
You got it in one.

You're leaving more garbage than i ever did, and spouting it out your mouth as well.
You are absolutely typical of the bullying that goes along with the green religion.
Dams were evil , but now they are good , because the religion of Green changed its mind.

wow i'm stunned and amazed that you are able to buy technology that other people invented. Got an Iphone i suppose.

You know all this battery powered crap is chewing up energy and contributing to the problem. Lucky they ave led lights.

You know a person from Apple. She's in the USA , proving my point, she couldn't get work in Australia. Please tell her she works for a scum company that designs electrical items with inbuilt obsolescence which means all the resources are going into replacing them. Stuffed if i know why they have such a good image. If they paid some tax, maybe Australia could afford to fund your CSRIO.

You have yet to tell me anything tangible that Australia can do to combat global warming, so i guess you mean we need to invent something some day. Shouldn't someone be doing something now?

Pray to your god of green, bully those who don't sing the party song.
I don't care. 1% is 1% and you can't save the planet with Australia's energy policy. You haven't been able to refute that.

 

[MUFKilda]

Pray to your god of green, bully those who don't sing the party song.
I don't care. 1% is 1% and you can't save the planet with Australia's energy policy. You haven't been able to refute that.

I don't think anybody has made that claim, have they?

Without the USA on board, we are screwed, and the Trump administration are flat out climate change deniers. The rest of us can only do whatever we can; waiting for others to act will only exacerbate what is already a critical problem.

 

[bergholt]

On a global level... no-one can tell whoever is being recalcitrant what to do. They can be pressured to an extent.

This is a good point. But they can only be pressured by countries that are already doing it themselves, because that's the way geopolitics works.

 

[bergholt]

lastly i know a person in R&D working for apple in the US designing phones ... shes from Albany here in Western Australia ..

Unfortunately there are heaps of these. I've worked in tech for 20 years. We don't do much of it particularly well in Australia. Almost all the smart people have to go overseas - and then they earn $400k+ when here they could have earned $150k.

Almost all of our big tech companies do most of their business in Australia (realestate.com.au, Carsales, Seek, Afterpay, Ozforex, Xero, Domain, MYOB, IRESS, Tyro, Vinomofo). There are some which are more global (Atlassian, Canva, WiseTech, Envato, Catapult Sports, RedBubble, CultureAmp, Campaign Monitor, Freelancer, Siteminder).

This is a problem for our economy. Tech companies are the major ones growing and creating jobs at the moment, but where are our Google, Facebook, Amazon, Netflix, etc?

I asked a question up in the thread which no-one answered because it was too hard. Let me rephrase a little:

- Name 5 Australian companies that are globally recognised for what they do

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Unfortunately there are heaps of these. I've worked in tech for 20 years. We don't do much of it particularly well in Australia. Almost all the smart people have to go overseas - and then they earn $400k+ when here they could have earned $150k.

Almost all of our big tech companies do most of their business in Australia (realestate.com.au, Carsales, Seek, Afterpay, Ozforex, Xero, Domain, MYOB, IRESS, Tyro, Vinomofo). There are some which are more global (Atlassian, Canva, WiseTech, Envato, Catapult Sports, RedBubble, CultureAmp, Campaign Monitor, Freelancer, Siteminder).

This is a problem for our economy. Tech companies are the major ones growing and creating jobs at the moment, but where are our Google, Facebook, Amazon, Netflix, etc?

I asked a question up in the thread which no-one answered because it was too hard. Let me rephrase a little:

- Name 5 Australian companies that are globally recognised for what they do

I agree totally. As we became a developed country , one of the phases was to become a manufacturing base for overseas companies. Somehow , the next step, developing our own products, fell by the wayside.

Repco: Research and Development, Machine Building , Manufacturing , Retail. Sold up into pieces.
Victa : Sold off, ultimately to Briggs and Stratton.
AWA : Were a technical Juggernaught. Poor management got them too involved in media and dodgy financial deals. Rather than design locally and manufacture offshore ( like Apple, Samsung , and most other big name companies do ) they chose to divest themselves of consumer electronics.
BTR gearboxes design for a wide range of International companies, but they are now owned by a Chinese car maker.

Those are just a few that popped into my head. Its also discouraging that we don't seem to be able to process most of the minerals we mine.
Surely producing metal doesn't need to be a high labour item.

Is there something about our culture that prevents people from wanting to invest in big projects in Australia?
Do we fail to look after and protect our own industry?
Or are we simply too small?

An environmental energy industry is no more likely to succeed than any of these others, we need to address the underlying problems.

 

[Yawkey way]

I don't think anybody has made that claim, have they?

Without the USA on board, we are screwed, and the Trump administration are flat out climate change deniers. The rest of us can only do whatever we can; waiting for others to act will only exacerbate what is already a critical problem.

It’s going to be a massive winner for the dems a bit like the gop were positioned as strong on national security and stole a lead with voters on the issue.

Things are still being done in the US and more will get done at state level, expect plenty of court challenges from dem AGs but really nothing monumental will change until this administration gets voted out. The dems have a green version of the new deal which will see massive government investment in clean energy jobs and infrastructure. It’s really smart because their heading where the footballs going to be not where it was.

Imo SaintsSeptember is right in terms of Australia’s position, we should do what we can where it makes sense but no amount of teeth grinding will change the fact that we’re largely spectators at this stage.

 

[gringo2011]

Unfortunately there are heaps of these. I've worked in tech for 20 years. We don't do much of it particularly well in Australia. Almost all the smart people have to go overseas - and then they earn $400k+ when here they could have earned $150k.

Almost all of our big tech companies do most of their business in Australia (realestate.com.au, Carsales, Seek, Afterpay, Ozforex, Xero, Domain, MYOB, IRESS, Tyro, Vinomofo). There are some which are more global (Atlassian, Canva, WiseTech, Envato, Catapult Sports, RedBubble, CultureAmp, Campaign Monitor, Freelancer, Siteminder).

This is a problem for our economy. Tech companies are the major ones growing and creating jobs at the moment, but where are our Google, Facebook, Amazon, Netflix, etc?

I asked a question up in the thread which no-one answered because it was too hard. Let me rephrase a little:

- Name 5 Australian companies that are globally recognised for what they do

New Zealand just got their 3D printed rockets to launch satellites so there's hope for us.

 

[gringo2011]

It’s going to be a massive winner for the dems a bit like the gop were positioned as strong on national security and stole a lead with voters on the issue.

Things are still being done in the US and more will get done at state level, expect plenty of court challenges from dem AGs but really nothing monumental will change until this administration gets voted out. The dems have a green version of the new deal which will see massive government investment in clean energy jobs and infrastructure. It’s really smart because their heading where the footballs going to be not where it was.

Imo SaintsSeptember is right in terms of Australia’s position, we should do what we can where it makes sense but no amount of teeth grinding will change the fact that we’re largely spectators at this stage.

The individual states seem to take control in the US with California really going alone on renewables.

 

[Yawkey way]

you are a waste of time ... thankfully your outdated views will die out with you and the next generation will fix the garbage you leave behind for them to fix ...
you have no clue what we are on the verge of reaching 20 years ago the idea of having powerful processors in childrens toys was unheard of 10 years ago the unmanned machinery working kilometres under ground was unthinkable but here we are with both .. our country is run by egotisitcal selfcentred greed merchants who only care about living out their days comfortable ... the worst generation of all human existance ...
we are not helpless at all we are being held back thats the issue ... the older generation are so piss scared of being left behind that they put road blocks to slow the generation behind them down ...

lastly i know a person in R&D working for apple in the US designing phones ... shes from Albany here in Western Australia .. try telling her she doesnt know how ... arrogant flog

I find it hard to take you seriously when you winge and blame everything you can on the generations that came before you, which is a pity because you post some interesting things.

Quite apart from it not being true about older generations you have no idea what individuals who post here do in their day to day lives.

Perhaps someone else will have the stats but I believe we’re ranked pretty highly on most rankings for change and new tech uptake.

It's feels like the world is in a really bad place economically, environmentally and socially right now. I think history shows that extreme wealth discrepancy and people feeling like they don't trust the system always ends in major change. I have a bit of hope that the next generation can do a lot to change to something more equitable, ethical and sustainable. I'd like my kids to have a good life not necessarily one that has levels of success measured on what they consume and earn. It's quite insane that we know whats wrong but won't move towards fixing it now but as you say perhaps the older generation need to step down first. Hopefully soon so that there is something left to work with.

Exactly but it’s not imo a generational thing, extreme wealth and power seems to have the same intoxicating effects no matter what generation has it.

Bill gates and warren buffet are examples of older guys putting their money into philanthropy and leaving it largely to charity just to name two. In the past when a wealth gap like this has existed it has lead to war or revolution.

 

[CALL ME SNAKE]

Yesterday as I was walking through town I noticed so many women looking all hot n sweaty in this unseasonably hot weather.
I thought wow so many short skirts and it's only spring.
As lay in bed last night thinking about all those sweaty legs and cleavages i decided to do something about global warming.

So today i traded in my Toyota Corolla Hybrid for a Hummer.
Bring on the endless summer

 

[Dr Spaceman]

Yesterday as I was walking through town I noticed so many women looking all hot n sweaty in this unseasonably hot weather.
I thought wow so many short skirts and it's only spring.
As lay in bed last night thinking about all those sweaty legs and cleavages i decided to do something about global warming.

So today i traded in my Toyota Corolla Hybrid for a Hummer.
Bring on the endless summer

Given the thoughts that we're going through your head, and the position you were in, I thought perhaps you may have pulled off an even more happy ending [emoji12]

 

[Drake Huggins]

Yesterday as I was walking through town I noticed so many women looking all hot n sweaty in this unseasonably hot weather.
I thought wow so many short skirts and it's only spring.
As lay in bed last night thinking about all those sweaty legs and cleavages i decided to do something about global warming.

So today i traded in my Toyota Corolla Hybrid for a Hummer.
Bring on the endless summer

All that body heat and sweat you would've produced probably contributed to more global warming.