I'm talking about what tfa and TLJ have already shown us. And as you point out, TLJ has left a blank skate for IX which by its very nature means IX will also be a fresh take.
It was JJ who reverted back to rebels v empire but RJ continued with that in TLJ instead of changing it up.
If you want something done you have do it yourself. If the first two movies are anything to go buy then leaving stuff for the next director to do doesn’t work.
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There was an interesting interview with RJ where he described the dynamic. He said he was told to make his own movie using his interpretation of where TFA was headed. So, for example, the idea of Luke going off to die was his idea but it actually makes sense; the idea that Luke left a puzzle for people to solve if he wanted to come back makes no sense. Likewise he made his movie, left room to move, but he knows he is leaving it in JJ’s hands. They are still making a trilogy, he can’t do it all himself and leave nothing for IX.
The thing is Rian Johnson didn’t really lay out anything. He just killed of everything the TFA and didn’t leave much for XI. He maid a movie that payed out nothing and left nothing.
You are %100 correct and astute in your comments above.
Neither of them should get a trilogy.
Luke giving up doesn't make sense if you're stubbornly committed to you own idea of who Luke must be. RJ explains the actions and decisions that led him to go into exile, you might not like them, but they make sense. People can change a lot in 30 years, they don't always continue in exactly the same manner. But people also forget, TLJ is the middle film in a trilogy, the second act, when everything seems darkest. The character of Luke was torn down, but he was rebuilt at the end, re-entering the fray, and allowing the final act to be the redemption and happy ending.
An anomaly, because Lucas had chosen a storyline that had no positive ending. That said, the second act still ends with the galaxy at war and the heroes in a dark place, the third film ends with Obi-Wan defeating Anakin and escaping with their lives ready to fight back. I mean, Rogue One still has the three act structure even though the end is dark. The heroes still go from being in an unwinnable position to 'winning'.
I wouldn’t call dying on rock de entering the fray.
A lot of people are having a hard time getting past how Luke was presented and their interpretation of how he 'went out'. But he came back, had his moment with Leia, engaged Kylo, and helped the Rebels escape. It's now set up for him to play a role in the final act. Once we see how that plays out, I think people will start to see what a brave move RJ made; making Luke a wise Jedi warrior was the easy option, but also largely the least interesting. I don't want to see Luke as Obi-Wan or Yoda, just repeating the same beats. He now gets a whole new arc that I think is far more interesting.
You also have to show why people change, Rian did none of that. Luke just went from hero to zero in one fell swoop. Then there’s also Luke’s refusal to take responsibility for his actions, how he affected the galaxy and how he turned his nephew to the dark side. He’s just a complete arshole the whole movie. Which I guess could technically happen over 30 years but they don’t show why it happens nor is it a particularly interesting to watch play out.
The problem with the way Luke came back is solely relies on the stupidly of Kylo, so instead of making Luke look like he’s redeemed himself, it just makes Kylo and the FO look less threatening coming into the next movie and he’s intimidation factor was already very low.
I disagree; he explains the 'moment of weakness', he discusses with Rey the reasons the Jedi must die out, he has a long discussion with Yoda about failure that puts it all into context. RJ didn't make a simplistic blockbuster with everything laid out like a dot-to-dot, which is why this will likely hold up better than most other Star Wars films.
Moment of weakness is a cop out not an explanation. The reasons he discusses with Rey as to why the Jedi must end are either poor or disingenuous.
But it was a deliberate ploy on Luke's behalf; he knew Kylo was immature and easily baited, which is why he knew his tactic would give the Resistance time to escape. I agree that makes him look less intimidating, but that's counterbalanced by his killing off of Snoke and whatever comes next; the point could be that Luke is his weak spot because of his obsession with killing off the past.
