Opinion 2018 Non-Crows #5: Watt's the frequency, Kenneth? #nightswimming&****

[Geoffa32]

Pretty common issue for NFPs. Large capital grants result in bloated surplus figures and it's not easy to get people to understand the simple add-backing required to get the true trading result.

I did think it was something like that.

Basically they doubled their net assets via a Government grant to build a facility that will be great for the community but have minimal impact on their core business ie winning games of in the AFL.



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[1970crow]

So it’s now 24 hours and no Power financials story on Adelaide Now. Magus are you concerned yet?

Before we laugh too much at Port, we haven’t yet availed our members of our financials. If you’d read the e-sports article you’d be concerned about the size of the cash flow drain there. Much larger than I had assumed. Take that into account and our poor season and I’d be thinking we’re not going to have a particularly strong EBITDA. We’re as bad as each other in a way, they sprucing the Chinese gazillion$, we spruik the e-sports million$. Our investment requires investment of our own funds whereas Port get supported by the AFL anyway.

I wouldn’t be surprised if we end up arguing with the auditors as to why we’ve capitalised expenses related to our non-core investments.

 

[1970crow]

I did think it was something like that.

Basically they doubled their net assets via a Government grant to build a facility that will be great for the community but have minimal impact on their core business ie winning games of in the AFL.



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What makes it harder is the standardised format of audited financials. I’m arguing at the moment that I want to release our management financials to our members at the AGM which isolates out trading performance from the rest of the rubbish, especially capital grants. EBITDA is a bit simplistic, interest is a genuine expense as is depreciation of assets that require periodic replacement. As an example, we have a $1.5m bowling green asset that is now adding about $70k/year to depreciation expense. This is on top of meaningless other depreciation expense where the actual costs are represented in R&M. We won’t be mowing down our clubhouse any time soon nor will non-specific ‘course improvements’ ever get ripped up. As long as the end result of our management version matches the audited version, then we can make understanding our real trading performance much easier, be it great or s**t.

 

[Elite Crow]

Before we laugh too much at Port, we haven’t yet availed our members of our financials. If you’d read the e-sports article you’d be concerned about the size of the cash flow drain there. Much larger than I had assumed. Take that into account and our poor season and I’d be thinking we’re not going to have a particularly strong EBITDA. We’re as bad as each other in a way, they sprucing the Chinese gazillion$, we spruik the e-sports million$. Our investment requires investment of our own funds whereas Port get supported by the AFL anyway.

I wouldn’t be surprised if we end up arguing with the auditors as to why we’ve capitalised expenses related to our non-core investments.

If we decided to release our figures in similar fashion so they are buried then I will be highly critical of the club. Our friends over yonder however have seen nothing untoward and that’s why I’m taking the piss. It’s so obvious what they’ve done.

 

[ChilliP]

we spruik the e-sports million$

No we don't, who has done this?

 

[GreyCrow]

No we don't, who has done this?

yeah I think thats the point

 

[1970crow]

No we don't, who has done this?

By investing significant amounts of financial resources, it’s implied that we expect a return. Are you suggesting that we do it just for the sake of doing it? As an AFC supporter, would you choose to have e-sports if you knew that it would cost us an AFL premiership due to reallocation of resources.

We haven’t spent the full soft cap since Trigg. We haven’t recruited a big name into our coaching ranks since Bailey. We haven’t recruited a non-rookie into senior coaching since Ayres. Where do we splash out in footy dept spend? Saunders? Thank Christ, a non-L-Plater, but only after we squibbed the spend to actually implement the system properly when we bought it.

So, on top of this, we now send $300k+ into a spurious business plan. If we happen to win a flag it will be despite our extramarital investments, not because of them. Oh, and the continuing employment of BRETT BURTON. Just let that sink in for a few minutes.

 

[Magus]

It’s not on Adelaide Now, got a link?

Reece Homfray article in The Advertiser apparently.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Reece Homfray article in The Advertiser apparently.

Small article reporting a small surplus, when Port have gone down the Adelaide route of covering up the true financial position.

If not for the one off grant, Port structurally have a $1m loss due to no 2nd sponsor or drivers of Chinese gold as promised.... which should be concerning.

 

[Magus]

Small article reporting a small surplus, when Port have gone down the Adelaide route of covering up the true financial position.

If not for the one off grant, Port structurally have a $1m loss due to no 2nd sponsor or drivers of Chinese gold as promised.... which should be concerning.

No arguments there and the thread on our board is proof of that. I just find old mate Elite Crow's obsession with the timing of the communication to be a bit over the top.

 

[ad victoriam]

aaa

Before we laugh too much at Port, we haven’t yet availed our members of our financials. If you’d read the e-sports article you’d be concerned about the size of the cash flow drain there. Much larger than I had assumed. Take that into account and our poor season and I’d be thinking we’re not going to have a particularly strong EBITDA. We’re as bad as each other in a way, they sprucing the Chinese gazillion$, we spruik the e-sports million$. Our investment requires investment of our own funds whereas Port get supported by the AFL anyway.

I wouldn’t be surprised if we end up arguing with the auditors as to why we’ve capitalised expenses related to our non-core investments.

What E-sport cash flow drain are you talking about. Please tell more I have not seen any data to suggest a cash flow drain or a loss.

 

[1970crow]

aaa


What E-sport cash flow drain are you talking about. Please tell more I have not seen any data to suggest a cash flow drain or a loss.

What data would you need to see and do you think it will ever be published?

 

[Elite Crow]

No arguments there and the thread on our board is proof of that. I just find old mate Elite Crow's obsession with the timing of the communication to be a bit over the top.

I obsess over many things, this ain’t one of them. It’s called taking the piss out of a bunch of deluded flogs who think their club isn’t taking the piss.

 

[Elite Crow]

Small article reporting a small surplus, when Port have gone down the Adelaide route of covering up the true financial position.

If not for the one off grant, Port structurally have a $1m loss due to no 2nd sponsor or drivers of Chinese gold as promised.... which should be concerning.

Written by the guy who went away on camp with them, it seems Reece has done a Rucci and been bought. Where is the Adelaide Now headline? “Port tries to bury fudged figures”

 

[ad victoriam]

What data would you need to see and do you think it will ever be published?

Something or Anything to justify what your saying, Is E-sport a cash flow drain on the club. if so where the data.

As for the financials it was mention in last years report and I would gather it will be mention this year with more data on the profit and loss after a full year of operation. Last they could only mention that Legacy eSport was split into two new controlled entities AFC eSport Pty Ltd and AFC eSport Trust was 100% owned.

 

[ChilliP]

By investing significant amounts of financial resources, it’s implied that we expect a return. Are you suggesting that we do it just for the sake of doing it? As an AFC supporter, would you choose to have e-sports if you knew that it would cost us an AFL premiership due to reallocation of resources.

We haven’t spent the full soft cap since Trigg. We haven’t recruited a big name into our coaching ranks since Bailey. We haven’t recruited a non-rookie into senior coaching since Ayres. Where do we splash out in footy dept spend? Saunders? Thank Christ, a non-L-Plater, but only after we squibbed the spend to actually implement the system properly when we bought it.

So, on top of this, we now send $300k+ into a spurious business plan. If we happen to win a flag it will be despite our extramarital investments, not because of them. Oh, and the continuing employment of BRETT BURTON. Just let that sink in for a few minutes.

The Esports investment is about getting in on the ground floor of an industry that is growing incredibly fast. We bought an existing company because they were already self-sufficient, anything we invest in it is with the aim to grow it. If it was instantly going to make us millions we wouldn't have been able to afford it, but it will get there one day if we make sure its the best-resourced team in the country.

The Esports investment is like purchasing an English National League team with the goal to eventually build it up to be promoted into the EPL, if you're better resourced than your competitors you'll move ahead of them and if you can stay on top there is a pot of gold at the end. In the case of esports that pot of gold doesn't come from getting promoted into the top league, it comes from being the most marketable team in the country when today's flossing 12 yr old fortnight addicts become the key 25-34 age demographic.

When Trigg was at the club there wasn't a soft cap, it started in 2015.

 

[Geoffa32]

Something or Anything to justify what your saying, Is E-sport a cash flow drain on the club. if so where the data.

As for the financials it was mention in last years report and I would gather it will be mention this year with more data on the profit and loss after a full year of operation. Last they could only mention that Legacy eSport was split into two new controlled entities AFC eSport Pty Ltd and AFC eSport Trust was 100% owned.

I doubt they will fully disclose the Esports and Bite costs and revenues.

It really is an argument neither side can win. It comes down to the bigger picture of the financial result of the club.

The question that will never be answered outside of the club is whether Esports and Bite hinder or improve the club's overall position.



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[GreyCrow]

I doubt they will fully disclose the Esports and Bite costs and revenues.

It really is an argument neither side can win. It comes down to the bigger picture of the financial result of the club.

The question that will never be answered outside of the club is whether Esports and Bite hinder or improve the club's overall position.



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I think its the Rivers of Gold mentality that concerns me.

 

[Geoffa32]

I think its the Rivers of Gold mentality that concerns me.

Yeah I am skeptical about the notion Legacey and Bite will be massive money earners for the club. However they were both cheap, none of us know if they are profitable, losing money or breaking even.


I dont mind the concept of our club being an umbrella for all these teams. Big European clubs often have multiple sports under one umbrella. With this in mind I reckon we should look at working with the State government to annex the Lightning.

As long as bringining all these teams together has minimal impact on the overall goal of the club. Winning games of Footy in the AFL which leads to a Premiership.

Nothing Else Matters.




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[1970crow]

I doubt they will fully disclose the Esports and Bite costs and revenues.

It really is an argument neither side can win. It comes down to the bigger picture of the financial result of the club.

The question that will never be answered outside of the club is whether Esports and Bite hinder or improve the club's overall position.



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The believers will still argue that decreased financial performance isn't proven to be from those investments.

 

[kirky]

Small article reporting a small surplus, when Port have gone down the Adelaide route of covering up the true financial position.

If not for the one off grant, Port structurally have a $1m loss due to no 2nd sponsor or drivers of Chinese gold as promised.... which should be concerning.

And wait till their on field performance drops off - it is a house of cards.

Member no’s will go south, crowds will go south (what will be the magical elixir for that - go to Alberton)

 

[Viva la Mattner]

And wait till their on field performance drops off - it is a house of cards.

Member no’s will go south, crowds will go south (what will be the magical elixir for that - go to Alberton)

Thought from day dot when moving from AAMI was spruiked this would have been the way they'd go.
Build Alberton into a 25,000 boutique stadium eg. Princes Park and AAMI modernised and Port use when required for high drawing games.

Now they are locked into a deal with SMA that will cost them a fortune to get out of, they're stuck and slowly bleeding money, as much as we all like to hang s**t on them, fact of the matter is we need two strong, healthy sustainable clubs in SA.

 

[StonesThrow]

Don Pyke

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[El Doederino]

I did like this.

Port announce poor 2018 results:

The Port Adelaide Football Club has announced a net profit from continuing operations of $322,013 for the financial year ending 31 October 2018.

Port announce good 2017 financial results:

PORT ADELAIDE chairman David Koch today announced the club will be presenting at its Annual General Meeting on February 2 a net operating surplus of $999,464 before and depreciation for the financial year ending 31 October 2017.

 

[1970crow]

If we decided to release our figures in similar fashion so they are buried then I will be highly critical of the club. Our friends over yonder however have seen nothing untoward and that’s why I’m taking the piss. It’s so obvious what they’ve done.

Agree with that but I expect that we'll do exactly the same.