Autopsy Eagles Post Match: We’re on to the Western Bulldogs

[loki04]

Just thinking back on the game, without having seen a replay or any highlights, etc. but I remember thinking during the game that I hadn't really noticed Crisp. I actually checked the stats to make sure he wasn't a late out at one stage.

Anyone who watched the game, particularly live, notice any tactics employed by the WCE that may have curtailed his influence or ability to rebound? Any defensive forwards, etc.?

He was on Cripps iirc who kicked 4 and is very quick maybe Crisp had his hands full.

This is why we need a quick small defender.

 

[unplugged]

He was on Cripps iirc who kicked 4 and is very quick maybe Crisp had his hands full.

This is why we need a quick small defender.

Ahh, Cripps. Surprised more hasn't been made of his hands behind his back mockery of Cox's goal celebration. Got a laugh out of me.

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

I will say one thing, you can definitely see why they were in a rush to get Adams back in.

Something needs to be done about our midfield and FAST.

I’d be doing everything to get Sier in and get some game time into Wills. I’d have way more faith in the centre clearance winning ability of Sier, Wills and Adams than I do Pendlebury, Treloar and Beams.

 

[unplugged]

I think once they get the mix right with the current midfield brigade, we'll find there's no major rush to get Sier on. And this is coming from a big Sier fan.

Adams will be better for the run and will be as inside as you want him to be.

 

[SprooseMoose]

The frustrating thing is, it was like we learned nothing from the last few times we played them. One of the things I appreciated last year was the teams ability to learn from mistakes, not just in 2018 but from the previous season as well. I guess you could argue that from Geelong to Richmond we fixed what we needed to, executing same game plan far more effectively. I saw none of that against the Eagles, which was disappointing. It didn't even look like we were executing this new game plan.

Not only did Shuey and McGovern destroy us again, Pendles and Sidey were held quiet again as well. And as per the Geelong game, we just predictably bombed it forward without looking, and when going back the other way, our mids never really got back to defend. The WCE players all knew what we were gonna do, and just waited, and subsequently it always felt like they had two guys in every contest for every one of ours.

Whilst in this and the Geelong game, we can say that with a bit more accuracy in front of goal, we would've won, it doesn't mask the fact that we were still comprehensively out played. Which is a bit too similar to 2014 to 2017 for mine.

 

[sr36]

My insights for what they’re worth were that we lost that contest in 4 split seconds of football.

I doubt I’ll get the order spot on, but I believe it was Cox’s missed set shot in the 2nd Q, JDG’s missed set shot in the 3rd Q, Mihocek’s miracle kick to the corridor in the 3rd Q and Crisp’s switch kick in the last quarter. In those 4 seconds of footy we cost ourselves 22 points. Despite our mids being bullied on the outside and as slow as a wet week on the spread there were legitimately 4 moments of poor football that cost us the match against the best team in the competition.

I’m sure every single poster could name other significant moments in the match that either went our way or there’s to influence the match the unique aspect of these were that they were either gilt edged opportunities (the missed set shots) or terrible errors from stop plays. You can’t win all the big moments in a match, but to be comprehensively outplayed in so many areas and still be in that position is something to focus on.

The broader issue now though is their midfield dominating us. We’re seriously missing a Sier or Wills in the contest and some speed on the outside, but for all the doom and gloom I’d expect of this thread we really need to remember the context. A win v the Bulldogs is crucial.

I totally disagree. I don't think our errors were any more frequent or game changing than normal. I reckon we lost that one on the drawing board and through our inability or slowness to adjust the drawing when it wasn't working. Our plan to transition the footy was an abject failure as was our plan around the stoppages. That was the ball game.

 

[DaVe86]

Tough game to read. On the one hand, I thought we cost ourselves so many goals with poor execution, bad decisions and poor skills. We also missed some sitters in front of goal at key points in the game where momentum could have swung our way. There was also the Phillips free kick which i thought turned momentum. So in many ways, we could have won that game.

On the other hand, I thought West Coast were far and away the better side on the night, and 22 points was a pretty fair reflection of how the game went. The Eagles got on top around clearances, stunted our ball movement which became static, and moved the ball with far greater ease than we did. The Eagles forward line looked far more dangerous....and their players are more disciplined as well around stoppages and marking contests. We had too many get sucked into the contest, and the Eagles keep their players in position.

So it's somewhat pleasing that despite West Coast's dominance, I still thought we had moments we could have got back into the game but cost ourselves greatly.

If we tidy up some of the midfield work, and also be a bit more cautious about letter the ball get to the back of the pack in a marking contest with no one covering, then we'll improve immensely. Obviously, we need big Coxy to fire up a bit, and I think Elliott is out of nick as well and hasn't quite worked out his spot next to De Goey.

 

[DaVe86]

I totally disagree. I don't think our errors were any more frequent or game changing than normal. I reckon we lost that one on the drawing board and through our inability or slowness to adjust the drawing when it wasn't working. Our plan to transition the footy was an abject failure as was our plan around the stoppages. That was the ball game.

Yeah I think we tried to implement the similar game plan to what we used against Richmond. It works against Richmond because they don't man you up and try and get you on the counter. I think we've looked best against West Coast when it is a frantic and manic game. The Eagles are simply better than us at the possession game. We are not going to beat them playing that style. We need the game to be a more frenetic speed.

The other concern though is that they seem tougher than us. If we keep allowing them to win stoppages and they get first use, then they can implement their style. We need to beat them in the stoppages and play the games on our terms. We just haven't been getting the opportunity to do it because their midfield outmuscles ours.

Which it shouldn't, because it's not like they beat us in hitouts, or have a beast like a Patty Cripps or Dangerfield. Gaff and Sheed don't tackle, and Shuey is small. Redden and Yeo have some size, but I wouldn't say they are physically stronger than Beams or Pendlebury. Perhaps getting Brayden Sier back is key.

i also think we need to tag Shuey. We didn't use Greenwood in a tagging role which surprised.

 

[Scodog10]

I totally disagree. I don't think our errors were any more frequent or game changing than normal. I reckon we lost that one on the drawing board and through our inability or slowness to adjust the drawing when it wasn't working. Our plan to transition the footy was an abject failure as was our plan around the stoppages. That was the ball game.

I wouldn’t dispute the reasons we lost they were everywhere and I’m sure they’ve all been covered a number of times anyway. That’s why I chose those 4 moments to provide context to what my thoughts were in the moment, no more no less. If you feel the need to disagree with it point blank and then list a few of the obvious reasons we lost so be it I’m just not really sure what it adds to the discussion...

 

[sr36]

I wouldn’t dispute the reasons we lost they were everywhere and I’m sure they’ve all been covered a number of times anyway. That’s why I chose those 4 moments to provide context to what my thoughts were in the moment, no more no less. If you feel the need to disagree with it point blank and then list a few of the obvious reasons we lost so be it I’m just not really sure what it adds to the discussion...

Sorry, I misunderstood you, I thought you were suggesting that we lost that game because of skill execution errors. I don't think our skill execution was really any better or worse than WCE. I also don't think there was much difference in terms of grunt, getting our hands dirty, etc. To me that game was simply a case of our pre-game planning being off and then being too slow on the whiteboard to react to their good moves.

Assuming we're not going to be stubborn with the chip around the zone tactic, I don't think that game was too much to worry about. We've just got to tighten up stoppage tactics and accept that we're going to have to go long down the line quite often against them and plan for it by getting a couple of blokes front and centre, rather than have them all too separated attempting to spread the zone, which left a simple ground ball mop up for them when the inevitable long down the line occurred. They're just too good at covering our outlets to avoid the long down the line into their zone. I also think an extra ground level defender at the expense of Roughie is a must. We got smashed by their ground level forwards.

 

[sirlothie]

Sorry, I misunderstood you, I thought you were suggesting that we lost that game because of skill execution errors. I don't think our skill execution was really any better or worse than WCE. I also don't think there was much difference in terms of grunt, getting our hands dirty, etc. To me that game was simply a case of our pre-game planning being off and then being too slow on the whiteboard to react to their good moves.

Assuming we're not going to be stubborn with the chip around the zone tactic, I don't think that game was too much to worry about. We've just got to tighten up stoppage tactics and accept that we're going to have to go long down the line quite often against them and plan for it by getting a couple of blokes front and centre, rather than have them all too separated attempting to spread the zone, which left a simple ground ball mop up for them when the inevitable long down the line occurred. They're just too good at covering our outlets to avoid the long down the line into their zone. I also think an extra ground level defender at the expense of Roughie is a must. We got smashed by their ground level forwards.

One thing about Buckley is you never really see a obvious change made during the game. He needs to switch some magnets around sometimes if what we are doing isn't quite working. You never really see a noticeable shift in tactics or positions after half time or anything like that. The only change he seems to pull is putting De Goey in the middle sometimes but apart from that everyone stays put and it's plan A or bust.

 

[sr36]

One thing about Buckley is you never really see a obvious change made during the game. He needs to switch some magnets around sometimes if what we are doing isn't quite working. You never really see a noticeable shift in tactics or positions after half time or anything like that. The only change he seems to pull is putting De Goey in the middle sometimes but apart from that everyone stays put and it's plan A or bust.

No clubs really make large game style changes within games. It tends to be tinkering. We did eventually make the change of getting rid of the tag to fix up stoppage, but it took too long. I think our coaches have been pretty good recently, but the WCE crew seem to be another level of sharpness. It's probably that Mitchell prick - another reason to hate him.

 

[sirlothie]

No clubs really make large game style changes within games. It tends to be tinkering. We did eventually make the change of getting rid of the tag to fix up stoppage, but it took too long. I think our coaches have been pretty good recently, but the WCE crew seem to be another level of sharpness. It's probably that Mitchell prick - another reason to hate him.

Not looking for complete overhaul during course of game but need some way of switching it up, otherwise are utterly predictable and they can plan and find us out. Once one side figures you out it doesn't take long for the rest to follow suit once your game plan has been cracked. I don't think we have been cracked quite yet but a little flexibility in approach would be nice, even just by simply changing to a more direct style and taking risks if possession game doesn't stand up. Waiting for some more swifty's from Hawthorn, the campaigner just can't torment us as a player but has to come back and do it as a coach ffs.

 

[ColinMochrie]

Since many in here were screaming for us to throw the kitchen sink at Clarkson, it’s interesting to note what he said about new players to a club. They need time to adjust to the *insert club name* way. Beams may well have been one of the best mids in the comp while playing the Brisbane way but that’s not necessarily immediately transferable to his new club. It also depends on the type of mid a player is.

Look at Dangerfield, Ablett and selwood combo at the cats. Didn't really gel last year but looking the goods so far this year.

 

[Robroy22]

Look at Dangerfield, Ablett and selwood combo at the cats. Didn't really gel last year but looking the goods so far this year.

Yeah LOOK at them. Ones playing permanent small forward, ones on a wing and the fast one's on the ball with the other FAST mids.
See what WE need to do?

 

[Robroy22]

Can we stop lambasting Pendles. Beamer and Treloar for NOT running both ways? THEY DO...it's just that they're all too slow to catch up with someone who's got a start on them.

 

[Quicky]

Can we stop lambasting Pendles. Beamer and Treloar for NOT running both ways? THEY DO...it's just that they're all too slow to catch up with someone who's got a start on them.

That speaks to the midfield structure at centre clearances again. We allowed ourselves to have too many get drawn to the ball too often. We failed to hold a midfielder defensive side and failed to maintain our width. It's a theme when we play poorly. I would love to see Treloar and his speed defensive side for us. His best game for us he cracked over 10 tackles. I reckon if he brings that heat we'll look better in there and he's a good enough player it won't reign in his offensive game completely. Adams at the ball (and Sier when he's back). Pendles and Beams for width (or Sidebottom) That's a good mix to me and we have Greenwood too if we want a hard tag. Sidebottom, Phillips and Mayne for the wings.

 

[sr36]

That speaks to the midfield structure at centre clearances again. We allowed ourselves to have too many get drawn to the ball too often. We failed to hold a midfielder defensive side and failed to maintain our width. It's a theme when we play poorly. I would love to see Treloar and his speed defensive side for us. His best game for us he cracked over 10 tackles. I reckon if he brings that heat we'll look better in there and he's a good enough player it won't reign in his offensive game completely. Adams at the ball (and Sier when he's back). Pendles and Beams for width (or Sidebottom) That's a good mix to me and we have Greenwood too if we want a hard tag. Sidebottom, Phillips and Mayne for the wings.

We had all our midfielders defensive side. No one was offensive side.

 

[soreplums]

Yeah I think we tried to implement the similar game plan to what we used against Richmond. It works against Richmond because they don't man you up and try and get you on the counter. I think we've looked best against West Coast when it is a frantic and manic game. The Eagles are simply better than us at the possession game. We are not going to beat them playing that style. We need the game to be a more frenetic speed.

The other concern though is that they seem tougher than us. If we keep allowing them to win stoppages and they get first use, then they can implement their style. We need to beat them in the stoppages and play the games on our terms. We just haven't been getting the opportunity to do it because their midfield outmuscles ours.

Which it shouldn't, because it's not like they beat us in hitouts, or have a beast like a Patty Cripps or Dangerfield. Gaff and Sheed don't tackle, and Shuey is small. Redden and Yeo have some size, but I wouldn't say they are physically stronger than Beams or Pendlebury. Perhaps getting Brayden Sier back is key.

i also think we need to tag Shuey. We didn't use Greenwood in a tagging role which surprised.

Not wanting to show all our cards?

 

[cityslick1]

Why dont we use Greenwood as a tagger every week ffs...

He tags Dusty, we win. He doesnt tag and Eagles tag Pendles... we lose. Doesnt play & tag week 1, Selwood, Danger & Kelly cut us up and we lose.

Whenever we played Hawks and didnt tag Mitchell, he cuts us up and we either lose or go close to it.

De Boer tags Dusty, they win. its virtually the only role that Greenwood can play well, but we think we're clever not having him actually do it...............

 

[sr36]

Why dont we use Greenwood as a tagger every week ffs...

He tags Dusty, we win. He doesnt tag and Eagles tag Pendles... we lose. Doesnt play & tag week 1, Selwood, Danger & Kelly cut us up and we lose.

Whenever we played Hawks and didnt tag Mitchell, he cuts us up and we either lose or go close to it.

De Boer tags Dusty, they win. its virtually the only role that Greenwood can play well, but we think we're clever not having him actually do it...............

We did play him as a tagger for 2 and a half quarters on Shuey. They exploited it and smashed us around the stoppages as a result.

 

[Robroy22]

The effects of having Sam Mitchell at the WCE is going to be felt for quite a while....now he's doing it at Hawthorn

 

[unplugged]

The effects of having Sam Mitchell at the WCE is going to be felt for quite a while....now he's doing it at Hawthorn

If he's truly that good we need to offer him 1m+ p/a and cop the spending tax.

 

[sr36]

The effects of having Sam Mitchell at the WCE is going to be felt for quite a while....now he's doing it at Hawthorn

If there is one bloke I do't want us to be beaten by, it's that little prick. And to the poster who said we should get him to the club. Go scrub your tongue with a razor blade. He's a villain who will always belong to the side of darkness and not our mob who are fighting for justice and freedom.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

We did play him as a tagger for 2 and a half quarters on Shuey. They exploited it and smashed us around the stoppages as a result.

Yeah, it’s hard to know whether to back him in or just compile a list of players he can successfully tag and only bring him in for those. Certainly you’d play him against Richmond for Martin.

I’m beginning to think bringing in an Appleby and playing him on Liam Ryan might be a better option next time. You’d want Sier or Wells available for midfield duties though.