We're a s**t Show - Fagan is a Complete Fraud, We're Rotten to the Core

[pjcrows]

I'll give him credit for answering, and respect to you for asking the questions; can you ask a couple of follow ups?

1. If Camporeale was Pyke's choice, why we were talking to Sumich?
2. Why didn't Sumich come?
3. Why were we talking to Longmuir?
4. Why didn't Longmuir come?
5. Did anything Burton did at Brisbane suggest that he'd be an effective footy ops manager? If he is an expert on fitness, how do they explain the massive injury toll at Brisbane, and then ours last year; and why did we bring Saunders in?
6. Why, as one of the best resourced Clubs in the league, did we go for a rookie footy ops manager with no proven performance in this critical role? Surely a Club such as ours can do better than that?
7. Do we have a policy in place that we will not violate the footy ops cap; if so, why? Does this policy align with your commitment to deliver and industry leading footy ops department; and how successful do you believe you have been in fulfilling this?

We don't offer enough money.

 

[Scorpus]

The fact is mate that Scott was reappointed by Pykey during Pykey’s term as Head Coach. He is his choice as a senior assistant, is well regarded by Pykey, the team and the industry more broadly.

Well that settles that.

If Pyke wanted Campo then both need to go.

 

[pjcrows]

Well that settles that.

If Pyke wanted Campo then both need to go.

"Wanted" can be a pretty loose term...

 

[Scorpus]

"Wanted" can be a pretty loose term...

Does it matter to what level he "wanted" him? He is effectively in charge of the coaching group and if he is accepting a coach he actually doesn't want, then he can go down with the ship.

If Fagan had said "we retained Campo because the admin team felt he was most suited to the role" then I'd cut Pyke some slack. But Fagan is saying Pyke directly wanted him, in which case Pyke is accountable for the decision

 

[pjcrows]

Does it matter to what level he "wanted" him? He is effectively in charge of the coaching group and if he is accepting a coach he actually doesn't want, then he can go down with the ship.

If Fagan had said "we retained Campo because the admin team felt he was most suited to the role" then I'd cut Pyke some slack. But Fagan is saying Pyke directly wanted him, in which case Pyke is accountable for the decision

He directly wanted him based on the options presented.

 

[Scorpus]

He directly wanted him based on the options presented.

Wanted him enough to give him a multiple year contract and a promotion.

If he didn't actually want him, we could have given him one year contracts with reassessments of the available candidates each year

 

[King Elvis]

"Wanted" can be a pretty loose term...

That's exactly my point mate.

"I want Sumich."
"We won't pay him that much."
"Ok, I want Longmuir."
"He's too expensive as well."
"Jesus, what about Campo?"
"Sure, we can afford him, you want him?"
"* it, alright."


I go back to these questions;


1. If Camporeale was Pyke's choice, why we were talking to Sumich?
2. Why didn't Sumich come?
3. Why were we talking to Longmuir?
4. Why didn't Longmuir come?

Was Campo Pyke's first choice, or only choice?

 

[King Elvis]

If Fagan had said "we retained Campo because the admin team felt he was most suited to the role" then I'd cut Pyke some slack. But Fagan is saying Pyke directly wanted him, in which case Pyke is accountable for the decision

Do you trust our Executive to give honest, direct and transparent answers?

I don't - I've got no doubt it was along these lines;

"He directly wanted him based on the options presented. "

Fagan is very good at providing answers that cover the bases, without being specific enough to provide the meaningful information.

 

[Scorpus]

Do you trust our Executive to give honest, direct and transparent answers?

I don't - I've got no doubt it was along these lines;

"He directly wanted him based on the options presented. "

Fagan is very good at providing answers that cover the bases, without being specific enough to provide the meaningful information.

Maybe, but our actions don't suggest he was actively searching for other options.

We are very obviously not keen on Hart. He has a one year contract and got thrown into coaching the forwards after Francou unexpectedly left. So why did we promote Campo and give him a multiple year contract if we'd rather have a different option and/or no one suitable was available at the time?

 

[pjcrows]

Maybe, but our actions don't suggest he was actively searching for other options

It is wrong to think that Don just gets to go and pick his senior assistant and then the Board tick it off.

 

[ad victoriam]

CEO - 4 years 7 months and ''locked in''
List Manager - 4 years 6 months
David Noble poached 2016. Otherwise there is a good argument that he is still in the chair
Brett Burton followed David Noble - appointed Nov 2016 ( so not twice) - as a point of interest he hasnt changed his LinkedIn page saying he is at Brisbane
Changing coaches? Really you are going to include this? Walsh 2015 . Pyke 2016-
Hamish Ogilvie - 13 years - and in any review this guy keeps his job!
Changing the medical dept? Bringing in Steve Saunders? To fix the utensil-up of his invention. Thats our major change?
Getting a couple of new coaches? Well why is that? Teague left and Franco left. You seem to be close to the club. Why did Franco leave?

Ellis, Fellows , Fennel , McDowell and Ryder all have as much football experience as I do , and I bet Ryder and me are the leading footballers of this group

CEO who is operating a financially successful club, yea lets send a message that the CEO who make money is s**t because we don't win flags, we only get into a grand final.
Noble yes Poached but who did he replace to become football manager and List Manager.
Burton, not a fan of his, but they have curtailed his influence which I mention late last year would happen, and we will see if he survives the end of the year. Again s**t decision in Hindsight
Changing Coaches I was thinking of Sanderson, while still under contract, would be a big move, and we all praise Ruccuito for that one.
Hamish working under a different structure, he has more authority, more say.
Changing the structure of the medical department to have both Fitness and Medical dept's working under the same roof, yes we may have stuff up with Burton sticking his fingers in the pie, but this year that structure with Sauders is working better.
Yes tell us why did Teague leave, did he leave to go Home to Vic and work for the Club were he started his coaching career. oh and More Money.
He seems to have a history of Changing Clubs every few years
Why did Franco leave, better money working with his mate, maybe a few of the player were tried of his Sydney do this Port do That type comments every 5 minutes. do you know.
Re The Board it Funny you bring up their inexperience of Football, but spend a lot of time trashing Ruccuito,
We could go all in for people with Football Knowledge Like Port and be finically stuffed I guess. And we Had People with Football experience when the Tippett saga Began did that help us,
You talk of Ellis lack of experience, who was a sports minister with contacts, She may not have the Football experience you have, but She has more experience dealing with elite sporting organisation than Most people
Linda Fellow was a good Appointment and one we needed after the Tippett saga, Her work on the Professional Standards and Integrity Committee resulted in several changes to how the club operates he work overseeing that department is in todays world very important
But most are forgetting the biggest change to our Board, they do not work for the SANFL.

There is always another side to every argument. But When some believe there have been no changes it surprises me to see just how many changes the AFC has made since the Tippert issues. and yet we still carry on about it as if it was yesterday.
And not all change are Personnel Structural change's are just as important.
But tell How is this help the Crow win on Sunday,

 

[Scorpus]

It is wrong to think that Don just gets to go and pick his senior assistant and then the Board tick it off.

Of course, but Don also can and should be honest with the organization about the setup he requires, and if staff in his domain are underperforming or unsuitable in their roles.

If Campo was the only suitable option at the time and Don wasn't all that keen on him, he should be having a discussion with the hierarchy about retaining Campo on a short contract while reassessing options the following year to see if a more suitable candidate is available.

 

[pjcrows]

Of course, but Don also can and should be honest with the organization about the setup he requires, and if staff in his domain are underperforming or unsuitable in their roles.

If Campo was the only suitable option at the time and Don wasn't all that keen on him, he should be having a discussion with the hierarchy about retaining Campo on a short contract while reassessing options the following year to see if a more suitable candidate is available.

That'd be a very simple way of thinking.

Ultimately it's a function of how our club operates, rather than Don's personal abilities. It will stay largely unchanged whether Don stays or not. If we go 8W 14L and Pyke gets the flick, our club systems won't allow the next coach what he needs anyway.

 

[pjcrows]

CEO who is operating a financially successful club, yea lets send a message that the CEO who make money is s**t because we don't win flags, we only get into a grand final.
Noble yes Poached but who did he replace to become football manager and List Manager.
Burton, not a fan of his, but they have curtailed his influence which I mention late last year would happen, and we will see if he survives the end of the year. Again s**t decision in Hindsight
Changing Coaches I was thinking of Sanderson, while still under contract, would be a big move, and we all praise Ruccuito for that one.
Hamish working under a different structure, he has more authority, more say.
Changing the structure of the medical department to have both Fitness and Medical dept's working under the same roof, yes we may have stuff up with Burton sticking his fingers in the pie, but this year that structure with Sauders is working better.
Yes tell us why did Teague leave, did he leave to go Home to Vic and work for the Club were he started his coaching career. oh and More Money.
He seems to have a history of Changing Clubs every few years
Why did Franco leave, better money working with his mate, maybe a few of the player were tried of his Sydney do this Port do That type comments every 5 minutes. do you know.
Re The Board it Funny you bring up their inexperience of Football, but spend a lot of time trashing Ruccuito,
We could go all in for people with Football Knowledge Like Port and be finically stuffed I guess. And we Had People with Football experience when the Tippett saga Began did that help us,
You talk of Ellis lack of experience, who was a sports minister with contacts, She may not have the Football experience you have, but She has more experience dealing with elite sporting organisation than Most people
Linda Fellow was a good Appointment and one we needed after the Tippett saga, Her work on the Professional Standards and Integrity Committee resulted in several changes to how the club operates he work overseeing that department is in todays world very important
But most are forgetting the biggest change to our Board, they do not work for the SANFL.

There is always another side to every argument. But When some believe there have been no changes it surprises me to see just how many changes the AFC has made since the Tippert issues. and yet we still carry on about it as if it was yesterday.
And not all change are Personnel Structural change's are just as important.
But tell How is this help the Crow win on Sunday,

So much dynamic change, yet nothing's actually changed.

 

[GreyCrow]

CEO who is operating a financially successful club, yea lets send a message that the CEO who make money is s**t because we don't win flags, we only get into a grand final.

Rather be a broke 4 Premiership winning club than a rich diversified 2 flag club

Yes tell us why did Teague leave, did he leave to go Home to Vic and work for the Club were he started his coaching career. oh and More Money.
He seems to have a history of Changing Clubs every few years
Why did Franco leave, better money working with his mate, maybe a few of the player were tried of his Sydney do this Port do That type comments every 5 minutes. do you know

.Thats my point. You pointed to changing coaches as some sort of clean out. It wasnt . it was career movement.

Re The Board it Funny you bring up their inexperience of Football, but spend a lot of time trashing Ruccuito,

Off you go, find one post where I trash Roo. Just one.

We could go all in for people with Football Knowledge Like Port and be finically stuffed I guess. And we Had People with Football experience when the Tippett saga Began did that help us,
You talk of Ellis lack of experience, who was a sports minister with contacts, She may not have the Football experience you have, but She has more experience dealing with elite sporting organisation than Most people
Linda Fellow was a good Appointment and one we needed after the Tippett saga, Her work on the Professional Standards and Integrity Committee resulted in several changes to how the club operates he work overseeing that department is in todays world very important
But most are forgetting the biggest change to our Board, they do not work for the SANFL.

Do these people need to be on the Board to do these roles?

But tell How is this help the Crow win on Sunday,

Buggered if I know.

 

[ad victoriam]

So much dynamic change, yet nothing's actually changed.

Yep nothing changed, like making the finals and even a grand final, we have a s**t year and nothing changes,
we have only made the Grand final 3 times, yet after a wait of 20 years we make one and yet nothing changes.

 

[ad victoriam]

Rather be a broke 4 Premiership winning club than a rich diversified 2 flag club



.Thats my point. You pointed to changing coaches as some sort of clean out. It wasnt . it was career movement.

Off you go, find one post where I trash Roo. Just one.

Do these people need to be on the Board to do these roles?


Buggered if I know.

What about being Broke with no Flags. because we are talking about Tippett saga and after. Because that may have been the case yet some good management allow the club to lessen the financial burden and ensure we are paying the full allotment to the Football department.
s**t, we made a Grand Final We should not forget that.


Re Roo With you, I am wrong my apologies for that, but with some of the Others out there that is different

Yes I believe they need to be, Having Kate Ellis with Chapman open up several government avenues for the Crows and Only a Board Position level person warrants those talks,
With Fellow she needed the Power to push the Changes she earnt her spot.
Today AFL clubs need to generate funds they need to position themselves in getting the best equipment and training facilities, they need to be in a position to spend there Cap. To get there you need people good with Money People who know how to make money, People, who know who to tap to the get money and how to find sponsors.
While Leaving the Football orientated board members to oversee the running of the Football Department.
We are planning a move to the city which will result in an Elite training venue and that requires business-minded people
I don't care about the club rooms I want the best training centre in the AFL to give the best chance of winning Football.

It a Balance. but to ensure we have the best football department first we need money, then we need some better decision making. which hopefully is changing.

 

[Elite Crow]

So did anyone hear Caro this arvo on 5AA? I heard only the end but claiming that Burton and Pyke still haven’t won the players back and have no confidence in the game plan.

Can anyone else confirm please?

 

[MRB37]

So did anyone hear Caro this arvo on 5AA? I heard only the end but claiming that Burton and Pyke still haven’t won the players back and have no confidence in the game plan.

Can anyone else confirm please?

Basically yes. No trust in Pyke and his gameplan and still PO'd at Burton. Said it's very much "a club" with the coaches, you're either in or you're on the outside and said Francou and Kaesler were out and both left because of it. Said Clarke hasn't been around in the pre-season with his AFLW duties and he's one coach that everyone trusts and likes and maybe it'll get better now he's back.

 

[Doc_]

And Fages response to my respsonse after calling him a liar below


We aren’t going to get far if you don’t believe me when I respond. It’s pretty disrespectful to effectively call me a liar. But I get it is borne out of frustration.



The fact is mate that Scott was reappointed by Pykey during Pykey’s term as Head Coach. He is his choice as a senior assistant, is well regarded by Pykey, the team and the industry more broadly.



If you aren’t already a Head of Football, what is the background they should have? 50% of the program is high performance / fitness etc. Brett is an expert in this. He has also played at the highest level, is extremely strong managerially, was a former head of the AFL Players Association and was also highly regarded by the AFL for his work on their Laws of the Game Committee. His work ethic is unquestionable, his passion huge and I have rarely seen someone comes to work each day with a more committed approach to self improvement.



I’m not here to do his bidding, but his combination of personal qualities and work and industry experience makes him well qualified for the role of Head of Football. He was the best available candidate after a thorough search that included input from the AFL on potential options (and a recommendation from the AFL Head of Football as well). It doesn’t make him perfect either. None of us are.



This is a brutal industry and we are all big boys and understand that everyone has an opinion and that will often come with criticism. We have had 3 years of finals including a GF and then 12 wins last year but missed having a shot at the prize we all want.



That’s a fairly decent body of work by comparison to most but falls short of where we set our goals and you set yours. We had a really positive pre season but clearly have been challenged early.



We will continue to review hard and hold ourselves accountable on a daily basis to finding improvement and the wins you and I both want.



We have all of the information and we are working hard mate.



Again, appreciate the feedback. Always willing to acknowledge it.



Gotta go now though. Here’s hoping for a response this Sunday.

hmmmmmmm
Its worse than I thought.
They are living in fantasy land.
Thats what happens when the adoring public pat them on the back at every turn.
They believe their own BS.

 

[jackster83]

Basically yes. No trust in Pyke and his gameplan and still PO'd at Burton. Said it's very much "a club" with the coaches, you're either in or you're on the outside and said Francou and Kaesler were out and both left because of it. Said Clarke hasn't been around in the pre-season with his AFLW duties and he's one coach that everyone trusts and likes and maybe it'll get better now he's back.

Sounds like an absolute shitshow lol.

 

[GreyCrow]

What about being Broke with no Flags. because we are talking about Tippett saga and after. Because that may have been the case yet some good management allow the club to lessen the financial burden and ensure we are paying the full allotment to the Football department.

Stop with the Tippet stuff, we already had 2 flags

We havent won a flag since then despite our ''good management'' We chose to diversify rather than pay extra for coaches.

If Hart, Mattner and Godden are breaking our soft cap then we are in deeper trouble than we know

 

[MRB37]

Stop with the Tippet stuff, we already had 2 flags

We havent won a flag since then despite our ''good management'' We chose to diversify rather than pay extra for coaches.

If Hart, Mattner and Godden are breaking our soft cap then we are in deeper trouble than we know

The mistake you make is assuming we don't go over the cap because of other things. Again, Fagan can go "You got to the GF spending this much money, why do you need more?"

The issue isn't how much we're spending, it's who we're spending it on. We have 4 coaches in the box running their lines for the very first time, two (Mattner and Godden) with ZERO AFL coaching experience and a dud in Hart. It's a terrible mix of coaches and whoever decided to throw so much of the box into chaos over one year with everyone bar Pyke and Clarke doing their job for the first time was stupid.

 

[Cap]

Basically yes. No trust in Pyke and his gameplan and still PO'd at Burton. Said it's very much "a club" with the coaches, you're either in or you're on the outside and said Francou and Kaesler were out and both left because of it. Said Clarke hasn't been around in the pre-season with his AFLW duties and he's one coach that everyone trusts and likes and maybe it'll get better now he's back.

That is damning isn't it. (Funny that people on here hate Clarke though).

Sounds like the rumblings of another AFC player revolt.

 

[MRB37]

That is damning isn't it. (Funny that people on here hate Clarke though).

Sounds like the rumblings of another AFC player revolt.

It is possible for him to be a crap ruck coach, but actually decent at other things, from the sounds of it he's a very good people person, so it's no surprise the AFLW team loved playing for him (and especially with what they had previously if the rumours are true). Most people hate Clark because it's again a case of sticking with the same guy for years on end.