Bluemour Discussion Thread XVIII - Please Sir, Can We Have More?

[ferrisb]

At the end of the day, whatever the AFL / GWS scheme up, Coniglio has a choice he has to make. They can’t force him to stay if he doesn’t want to.

I’m comfortable in the fact that our Club did all we can do to convince him - that’s all we could as for as members / supporters.

They can.

He is a restricted free agent. If GWS match offers, he can't leave.

Unless he insists on a trade.

 

[I bleed Blue]

Ellis would be a far better free hit than Fasolo, Bugg etc.

At worst would really add to our depth. At best will be a good roll player for us.

Won't cost the world $ wise and is a free hit with no picks. We could do alot worse.

 

[LanceRomance]

I don't see the issue with Ellis. He's a free hit in terms of no trade required and it doesn't look like there's going to be a bidding war over him so he won't be on ridiculous money.

Just don't play him down back and he'll be a fine addition to the team. Certainly bolsters our running ability alongside Walsh, Ed, Charlie, Gibbons, Lochie, etc.

If he falls out of the 22 in 3 years time then so be it, but until then he'll be a solid contributor on a wing.

I remember when Geelong supporters were telling us that Smedts would be good provided we don't play him at half back... And what did we do?

 

[I bleed Blue]

They can.

He is a restricted free agent. If GWS match offers, he can't leave.

Unless he insists on a trade.

Let's see if GWS are true to their word.

Only a month or two ago they came out publicly and said "If he wants to leave we won't stand in his way. We won't be matching any offers" (not word for word... but close enough)

 

[VeinGlorious]

End of the day we were allowed to "employ" Judd at Visy to get him across. Having Coniglio employed by something to keep him at GWS is no big deal imo.

The hypocrisy is that the AFL have a much bigger problem with Gold Coast yet did SFA to assist retain players who exited. As if Richmond needed Tom Lynch. AFL could have paid him a packet to stay and help them become something other than a basket case and didn't.

We will be fine without Coniglio if he's not moving. There's other fish that can be caught.

Agreed, miss out on Rabbit



Grab something better

 

[ferrisb]

If he stays at GWS then he’s a loyal guy. Cripps said it in his podcast earlier in the year - its all about the struggle that makes success so much sweeter. Coniglio has gone through the struggle witH GWS and is clearly struggling to pull the trigger to leave because his heart is there. GWS aren’t a complete rabble and will still be a chance of a flag in the next few years. Jumping ship to Carlton to collect a flag is akin to Cripps throwing in the towel in two years and knicking off to west coast.

I want Coniglio just as much as anyone but let’s not slander the guy if he chooses to stay at the club drafted him.

If Coniglio stays at GWS, I won't be angry at him.

I will be pissed at Gil though (I'm assuming his fingerprints will be all over the decision).

 

[Bostonian]

I'd rather Ed Langdon than Ellis, 5 years younger and is just hitting his straps in the game.

Has more ball in hand running ability than Ellis.

 

[bluemahogany]

I'd rather Ed Langdon than Ellis, 5 years younger and is just hitting his straps in the game.

Has more ball in hand running ability than Ellis.

But we'd have to give up a decent pick for Ed

 

[ferrisb]

End of the day we were allowed to "employ" Judd at Visy to get him across. Having Coniglio employed by something to keep him at GWS is no big deal imo.

The hypocrisy is that the AFL have a much bigger problem with Gold Coast yet did SFA to assist retain players who exited. As if Richmond needed Tom Lynch. AFL could have paid him a packet to stay and help them become something other than a basket case and didn't.

We will be fine without Coniglio if he's not moving. There's other fish that can be caught.

Yeah, but after signing off on the deal, the AFL buckled to club/media pressure and reneged.

We then had to include the extra cash in the cap.

I think the Visy slush fund was dodgy. BUT make that ruling BEFORE we sign him. NOT after. The AFL effectively ****** our salary cap by ~$1M (spread over a number of years) by flip-flopping.

Sick of the AFL making things up as they go along.

 

[ESKIE]

There’s a Gil thread on the main board if you need to vent

 

[ferrisb]

That’s right pumpy, not sure where the confusion is coming from. Under the AFL’s equalisation plan it pretty well says....

All teams are equal, but some teams are more equal than others.

AFL HQ is more Animal House than Animal Farm....

 

[JoeyPBLUES]

AFL HQ is more Animal House than Animal Farm....

Depends which version of Animal Farm you mean ferrisb

 

[ferrisb]

That's what Kochie, McGuire, and Kennett do and aren't they beloved by the football public

I hate it when McGuire and co whinge in public.

They are so unashamedly one-eyed and blatantly angling for benefit for their club.

BUT if I was a Port/Coll/Hawks supporter (shudder), that's exactly what I would want my Prez to do.






Note: not meant as a slight to MLo

 

[LanceRomance]

I hate it when McGuire and co whinge in public.

They are so unashamedly one-eyed and blatantly angling for benefit for their club.

BUT if I was a Port/Coll/Hawks supporter (shudder), that's exactly what I would want my Prez to do.






Note: not meant as a slight to MLo

I agree entirely...

 

[Styxx]

So the rumor is the AFL is going to interfere with a contract and essentially guarantee extra cash outside of the salary cap to prevent a player going to Carlton.


Either complete rubbish or Ron Evans is still alive in hiding like Palpatine.

 

[bigblueboy]

Let's see if GWS are true to their word.

Only a month or two ago they came out publicly and said "If he wants to leave we won't stand in his way. We won't be matching any offers" (not word for word... but close enough)

GWS will not need to match - it will not get to that stage.

 

[La Dispute]

How many of our kids though are out performing what Ellis done early in his career and what makes us think they will develop into better players than him? It can go both ways, who knows LOB and Dow may be busts and Ellis win a premiership with us. He isn’t a player you over pay for like Papley or even maybe Martin but i think we take him if it’s a good deal. We constantly talk on here as if all our kids will live up to their potential which never happens.

Ellis was playing in a team that made finals as early as his second year in the system. It’s far easier to develop and show potential in finals standard sides. As I said, he had far better exposure and developmental opportunities than LOB, Dow et al, who were thrown to the wolves early on.

The players may not all develop into players of Ellis’ standard, but the sheer volume and trajectory of most modern first round picks would indicate that many will, and more than likely many will exceed his output at 27. We’re not looking at the early stages of Dow, LOB, Setterfield, Stocker, Fisher, Gibbons and contrasting that with Ellis’ output - we are anticipating our future team with expected development, and comparing that map with one that includes Ellis. If Ellis was younger and had improvement left it’d make far more sense, but he’s peaked as a player and likely to be in decline as other players are extending contracts and we’re looking to bring in A-grade free agents.

Not sure about the last comment either. I’d argue the vast majority of young guys are living up to their potential. LOB and Dow are lagging but I think most flagged them as being slow burns due to their size.

Absolutely - if a player hasn't been All Australian they're a complete waste of time...

There doesn't need to be long term vision with an Ellis-type acquisition. He's a bridging player, strengthening the senior side immediately and setting a higher bar for the developing kids to reach in order to demand selection.

Ellis coming in tells Lochie O'Brien he needs to get his production up or he'll continue to play in the reserves. Crouch/Wines would do the same for Dow.

Ellis costs no picks, just money that we have to spend anyway, and if he gives us 3 years good service and is then relegated to "good depth" then he's done his job well.

This is a little disengenous. AA is one metric of judging a player, but it’s only one measurement of their quality and players can easily have an outlier year and make the team, or in Ellis’ case, make the ‘squad.’ We shouldn’t be deferring closely to the AA when making list management assessments.

All comes down to analysing their contracts vs our current resources and what their purpose is. Buying three years output of a B-grade wingman is pointless, when we’ve got players like Setterfield and Fisher who are ready to step up as early as next year, and Walsh who is already at Ellis’ standard, then a larger mix of players vying for time in those positions,

I’d actually much prefer Wines/Crouch as we are still light on for inside midfielders, and I see their absolute best as far better and impactful than Ellis’.

Again - Ellis is depth for depth sake, and we’re solidifying this with the players we’ve currently got on the list.

 

[Bostonian]

But we'd have to give up a decent pick for Ed

If we don't land Papley then might as well use our first in another deal.

1st and 3rd for Langdon and Freo's second, use the second to land Martin.

So our first and third land us two players.

 

[LanceRomance]

So the rumor is the AFL is going to interfere with a contract and essentially guarantee extra cash outside of the salary cap to prevent a player going to Carlton.


Either complete rubbish or Ron Evans is still alive in hiding like Palpatine.

I Dont think it is necessarily about Carlton. It's about gws losing one of their most important leaders.

I am fairly confident that the AFL thought GWS would have won at least one flag by now... And since that hasn't happened they are trying to control the damage.

 

[davis_756]

Not now..

..apparently, he has tatts.

Ahh *....

 

[Marc Shmurf 3]

Do any of the very much appreciated ITK posters have any insight on whether Gibbons will receive a contract?
I think he’s had a fantastic year and only gotten better week by week so I hope to be seeing him in blue next year.

yes he will

 

[FlowersByIrene]

They can.

He is a restricted free agent. If GWS match offers, he can't leave.

Unless he insists on a trade.

When was the last time a player didn't get to where he wanted to go? Stevens?

 

[Blue__Balls]

This is a little disengenous. AA is one metric of judging a player, but it’s only one measurement of their quality and players can easily have an outlier year and make the team, or in Ellis’ case, make the ‘squad.’ We shouldn’t be deferring closely to the AA when making list management assessments.

All comes down to analysing their contracts vs our current resources and what their purpose is. Buying three years output of a B-grade wingman is pointless, when we’ve got players like Setterfield and Fisher who are ready to step up as early as next year, and Walsh who is already at Ellis’ standard, then a larger mix of players vying for time in those positions,

I’d actually much prefer Wines/Crouch as we are still light on for inside midfielders, and I see their absolute best as far better and impactful than Ellis’.

Again - Ellis is depth for depth sake, and we’re solidifying this with the players we’ve currently got on the list.

Fisher's gone backwards this year and is no certainty to improve his output next year. Love the kid, but I'll take a certainty at this stage and make him earn it.

Ellis isn't depth for us, he's a starting player who runs hard all day, finds the ball, and uses it reasonably well.

Ellis is a free hit who plays 22 games next year and raises the required standard for getting a game in his position.

 

[Gavstar]

I Dont think it is necessarily about Carlton. It's about gws losing one of their most important leaders.

I am fairly confident that the AFL thought GWS would have won at least one flag by now... And since that hasn't happened they are trying to control the damage.

Stuff it then, make a massive offer for Toby Greene to break his contract with GWS make it public that we want him.

He's the second best FWD/Mid in the game behind Dusty!

 

[JustaBattler]

Well the bright side to this example of annual trade rumoured comedy fest ( in my books anyway ) is that it is a win if the elusive wabbit doesn't go to Clarkson's mob. Unlike Buddy Franklin/Lockett - Coniglio isn't going to pull Sydney siders to watch a franchise invention run around - watch what happens to Sydney crowds when Buddy retires - lack of tribal support is a huge obstacle for any new Club to overcome - no crowd noise no care factor. every player looking at every other player and wondering how long they will stay around....