Bluemour Discussion Thread XVIII - Please Sir, Can We Have More?

[JustaBattler]

2X firsts for papley? LOL

 

[The Smoking Gun]

You were so quick off the mark with this, you missed my edit.

On Papley, i would give up more than his actual worth because i think his real worth to us is a lot. I really like him in our team. 24yo Sydney leadership member who can really play, is a real crowd lifter and is just what we need positionally. A high quality small forward/mid.

I don't dispute any of that, but people here are putting him up on a Dylan Shiel/Patrick Dangerfield worth. He's just not on that level......period.

 

[F_therest]

Can people stop saying 'Papley isn't worth 2 x 1st rounders', completely eliminating the 2 x 2nd rounders & Cameron part that was touted?

It kind of changes the deal...a lot. You can't just omit the second part of the deal to suit your narrative...

 

[La Dispute]

Interesting that Tom Morris (i know) has said this about Sam Gray:
'Am told Sam Gray is a very good chance to get to the Saints.'

I could believe that Teague isn't overly keen on Gray and if it came down to a decision between him or Betts, would push hard for Betts instead.
While SOS would prefer Gray.

I think we’re passed the point of needing Sam Gray. He’s a minor upgrade on Gibbons, and might not even be an upgrade at all as of round 1 next season.

He’s also in his late 20’s, a genuine C-grader and gunning for the biggest contract of his career after reaching no great heights at Port.

Major pass.

 

[TerryWallet]

Don’t watch Swans enough to note evolution of Paps as a mid. So is he an inside or outside mid? Does he pinch hit in there or can play plenty of the game there?

He's a forward primarily and a pinch hitting mid ideally. In certain circumstances he could play mid if we needed it.

 

[BringBackSimmo]

Who are we onto today?

 

[Diamond Jim 007]

I think we’re passed the point of needing Sam Gray. He’s a minor upgrade on Gibbons, and might not even be an upgrade at all as of round 1 next season.

He’s also in his late 20’s, a genuine C-grader and gunning for the biggest contract of his career after reaching no great heights at Port.

Major pass.

could be another Fasolo
list clogger

 

[KohPhi]

At this point of our rebuild, we put our assets toward what we can get, not what we might be able to get. imo.

Shiel would have been perfect for us. Coniglio would have been perfect for us. Whitfield would be perfect for us.

Papley is perfect for us. If we can get him, get him. We're ready to rumble. He won't cost us our two firsts. Not with one being Pick 8 and the other also more likely to be around the same. No way.

 

[La Dispute]

Huge yes to Cutler. Right age, enough experience to come in and perform with some improvement left, and replaces Daisy in the back half.

Exactly who we should be targeting.

 

[Funk]

Incorrect on most counts. 8 + 12 for Papley, Cameron, 24 and 26.
Actually values Papley and Cameron around Pick 12, which seems fair.
Gives us 3 second rounders to deal for Martin, which should be plenty. In an even-ish draft it's likely someone will trade us a top 20 pick and change for two mid seconds.
And Whitfield is a Free Agent next year, if we can convince him to come we don't need to trade for him (see Coniglio shenanigans). The trick is convincing him to turn his back on whatever bulls**t the AFL offer him under the table.

I’m guessing AFL will specially introduce a “Don’t Do Drugs” Ambassadorial role for him late 2020........

 

[TerryWallet]

I don't dispute any of that, but people here are putting him up on a Dylan Shiel/Patrick Dangerfield worth. He's just not on that level......period.

I haven't seen anybody put him on that level. None.

 

[Jeremias]

Can people stop saying 'Papley isn't worth 2 x 1st rounders', completely eliminating the 2 x 2nd rounders & Cameron part that was touted?

It kind of changes the deal...a lot. You can't just omit the second part of the deal to suit your narrative...

Correct.

Sounding a lot like Adelaide supporters who celebrated when we gave up our 2019 1st for Stocker...before remembering they also gave us their 2019 1st.

 

[KohPhi]

Everyone is assuming the seconds are Sydney’s. 1 or 2 of them may actually be Essendon’s

Carlton -
In Papley, Cameron, Essendon 2nd, Sydney Second
Out 2019 First (Adelaide) 2020 First

Essendon
In Carlton 2019 First (Adelaide), Sydney 2020 First
Out Daniher, 2nd Round Pick

Sydney
In Daniher, Carlton 2020 First
Out Papley, 2020 First, 2nd Round Pick

That’s just to over complicate it more, I’m sure someone will tell me how I’m wrong

You've had a crack at trying to see how it all fits. Kudos for that!

 

[HARKER]

Everyone is assuming the seconds are Sydney’s. 1 or 2 of them may actually be Essendon’s

Carlton -
In - Papley, Cameron, Essendon 2nd, Sydney Second
Out - 2019 First (Adelaide) 2020 First

Essendon
In Carlton 2019 First (Adelaide), Sydney 2020 First
Out Daniher, 2nd Round Pick

Sydney
In Daniher, Carlton 2020 First
Out Papley, 2020 First, 2nd Round Pick

That’s just to over complicate it more, I’m sure someone will tell me how I’m wrong

Papley.....Cameron.....~2019 #25......~2019 #32
for
2019 #8 and 2020 ~#8

That's terrible. Just terrible.

 

[La Dispute]

could be another Fasolo
list clogger

Better work rate, less talent.

I like him as a player, but he’s not what we need, and given the players we’ve already got (Gibbons, Cuningham, JSOS) and those we’re looking to bring in (Martin, Butler), he’s got little utility.

 

[ABigOlDoofus]

Not without a gun midfielder who can run and deliver the ball to the forwards. This must come first.

We have Dow, Setterfield, Fisher, SPS, Stocker, and Cuningham who could all become gun midfielders in the next few years.

How many players on our list have the potential to become gun small forwards?

 

[chelseacarlton]

Do we need to spend all of our mattress money this year or do we have another year to spend it?
Hidden mattress money just in case you were wondering......
I think I’ve read somewhere in this thread that it needs to be spent this year, if so, why aren’t we making it virtually impossible for Jack Mario Martin to say no?
Or is SOS playing 22 dimensional chess?

 

[Bamboo Harvester]

Can people stop saying 'Papley isn't worth 2 x 1st rounders', completely eliminating the 2 x 2nd rounders & Cameron part that was touted?

It kind of changes the deal...a lot. You can't just omit the second part of the deal to suit your narrative...

Absolutely correct.....this year's 2nd possibly with Cas and swapping of spare change could get Martin over the line.

We then also have two second round picks in 2020, which could be traded for a later first rounder, depending where we finish.

So we would receive Papley, Martin and Cameron, and still potentially have a 1st round pick in 2020. I'd do it in a heartbeat....AND, we'd still have later picks available for Butler/Cutler/Betts etc.

 

[The Smoking Gun]

I haven't seen anybody put him on that level. None.

If you're prepared to give up two 1st Rounders you are. I also reckon one wouldn't need more than a nominal pick (6th Rounder) to get Cameron. If you're prepared to be patient, you may even pick him up as a DFA.

 

[KohPhi]

Then try and turn the 2 x 2nds into a late first (and a 3rd) and use that late 1st for Martin?
Effectively, Papley, Martin and Cameron and a 3rd for 2 x 1st rounders.

Seems a tad high, but if that's what the club wants then so be it.

Trading 2 years first round pick is way too high.
We are not talking about a top 10 player in competition.
Papley is a good forward pocket, who has occasional runs on the ball. Use some sense and keep 1 first round pick. You never know who will become available; otherwise you shut yourselves out of grabbing a gun for 2 years.
[/QUOTE]

I'd say in his position, at his age and with projected improvement, Papley will be a gun.

 

[Cowboyblues]

I wonder if our Plan B is playing finals?
If Kelly gets too to West Coast they would have to offload a few to fit him in?
Anyone of interest there???
Fun times ahead!

Dunno what contract situation is with these players but would you enquire into a jamie cripps from west coast.
Apart from the obvious family connection would be an ideal small forward.
Send 8 for example over there with 22 coming back. We get a gun small fwd and they get the ammunition to acquire Kelly.

Given the plethora of stalls they have it could be a win win

Then take 22 to gc for Martin.

 

[Zlatan]

What I’m getting is that we want Papley, Martin, Cameron + whoever else, but no one wants to actually give up any draft picks or money.

Sound strategy.

 

[BigFrizz36]

Apologies if old news but A.F.L web site reporting that Dan Butler got the facility guided tour today.

 

[BringBackSimmo]

Do we need to spend all of our mattress money this year or do we have another year to spend it?
Hidden mattress money just in case you were wondering......
I think I’ve read somewhere in this thread that it needs to be spent this year, if so, why aren’t we making it virtually impossible for Jack Mario Martin to say no?
Or is SOS playing 22 dimensional chess?

Well we wouldn't want the mattress to catch fire or something.

 

[BuxbaumBixby]

Big picture - we add Papley and Martin to our side irrespective of picks - it fills two massive holes.

Considering the youth already on our list, if we lose this and next years first, I'm not overly bothered - it's all about the context of how our list overall is improved. At the end of this trading period, we want it to be better than it is now.

At some point in the next few years - we're also going to have players wanting to go .... and that's how we can get back into the draft if necessary.