JohnnyFontane90
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- Feb 14, 2014
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Can't blame SOS for any of that.
But the fact there is only 1 small forward on the list is very much his fault
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Analysis 2019 List Management Discussion II
- Thread starter The Smoking Gun
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But the fact there is only 1 small forward on the list is very much his fault
We’re a bit over going to the draft. Now is the opportunity to fill holes with quality, existing players. The risk of GC or Melbourne picking up Martin is not worth squabbling over dropping pick 9 for pick 15.
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- #3,203
Yep. Butler was gettable. A premiership small pressure quick forward. For a pick in the 50s.
Navy_Blue91
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- Sep 27, 2017
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This may be an unpopular view.. But does anyone else believe that SOS should leave the negotiating of trades to somebody else? Or dare I say it step aside?
He seems to have a great eye for picking talent especially from the national draft, but he is continually failing in the Trade room.
Or? Maybe there's an expiry date for a list manager also? Just like Bolts....served perfectly as recruiter in the initial foundations and framework of the list turn over but seems to have really failed when trying to execute trades/FA's between the 22-26yr old bracket... (E.g Shiel, Cogs, Papley, and to a lesser extent Wines)
He seems to have a great eye for picking talent especially from the national draft, but he is continually failing in the Trade room.
Or? Maybe there's an expiry date for a list manager also? Just like Bolts....served perfectly as recruiter in the initial foundations and framework of the list turn over but seems to have really failed when trying to execute trades/FA's between the 22-26yr old bracket... (E.g Shiel, Cogs, Papley, and to a lesser extent Wines)
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- Banned
- #3,205
Yep.
If clubs are being unreasonable, then where is the backup plan?
Butler was there and we just gave up on him seemingly thinking a deal was done. Makes zero sense to me.
Infuriating each year watching a team with giant flaws. Infuriating watching SOS talk up a big recruiting game once we have the core and then to whiff on two recruits.
Massive kick to the face.
- Sep 26, 2004
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- #3,206
Does he?
This seems to be the first year under his watch we haven't walked away from the trade period with an amazing result for the footy club, and most reasonable people I think would acknowledge it mostly wasn't his fault.
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- #3,207
As soon as it was reported we’d lost interest I thought a Papley deal was surely done.
For SOS to come out and say it was unlikely unless Daniher went is baffling!!!
I don’t think at any stage Daniher looked like going so why did Carlton just give up on a suitable player in Butler?
He's been too single-minded, though. That's a double-edged sword.
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- #3,209
Are you sure about that?
I think it has been suggested Cameron asked for pick 9 and a future 2nd for Martin and pick 15.
Navy_Blue91
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To be fair he has also brought in his fair share of list cloggers also (the GWS rejects) e.g Lamb, Pickett, Phillips, Sumner and Palmer
- Sep 26, 2004
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- #3,211
Has he?
Seems to have got most of the deals done that he wanted to over the past few years.
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- #3,212
To be fair, there's a reason why most of them were brought into the club.
Context is important. Without it, most things can be made to look pretty ordinary.
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- #3,213
Lobbe, Mullet, Shaw, O'Shea, Gorringe, Bugg, Garlett.
DamianBis
Club Legend
The problem is that Gold Coast had no use for most of what we could provide them.. When you've already got 4 picks 20 or below this year, then pick 43 or a second next year doesn't do much for them. especially when they can just roll the dice and hope that Jack Martin decides to just stay.
Papley deal was a bit disappointing. if we didn't offer them a straight swap 9 for Papley, and were pushing to get something back then i'd be really disappointed. we'll probably never know for sure though.
We're still in a good position without these players.
Papley deal was a bit disappointing. if we didn't offer them a straight swap 9 for Papley, and were pushing to get something back then i'd be really disappointed. we'll probably never know for sure though.
We're still in a good position without these players.
Navy_Blue91
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How were they any better / different to Jasch, Whiley, Bell or Andrejs Everitt? I actually think Everitt was a better player than any of that list that SOS recruited..
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Always a reason. However they aren't great selections regardless.
Eiffel 65
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I'm pretty confident that's what he said in his press conference on Fox.
What is not single-minded about that? Doing the deals you want is one thing, being able to take stock and be more flexible when things don't go your way, or when an opportunity arises, is another.
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- Sep 26, 2004
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- #3,219
None of those hold any relevance to Carlton today. All were brought in pre-SOS and you're pushing shit uphill if you're going to seriously argue we're in a worse position now than we were then.
The reasoning behind them has been discussed ad nauseum on this board. Most were part of far bigger deals and list management strategy decisions that have got us to where we are today, which is in a far better position than we were when he arrived.
Please don't try argue SOS hasn't been flexible in his dealings over the past few years. It is simply not true.
Not many across the competition have shown greater flexibility or preparedness to work deals any which way to improve the state of the list.
We have had a number of brilliant off-seasons under SOS. I understand some are disappointed we didn't land everyone we wanted to, but let's not rewrite history.
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Baffling. There will be some cross people after we play saints next year
It doesn't operate like that. Butler isn't going to wait around for Carlton & Sydney to organise a deal for Papley. He wasn't a priority, and therefore went looking for other options.
Maybe I missed that part, that does make it more fair.
Still values Martin at around Pick 20-22 assuming you finish mid-table next year
All SOS offered was a future 2nd & future 3rd in a very weak draft and picks that GCS are unlikely to be able to use
Once the Papley deal fell through then it really should have become the priority to get that one across the line.
Maybe it will work out in the PSD, but SOS is getting a reputation for being very difficult to work with
A 6 pick downgrade in a very even draft pool, when you weren't expecting to have the pick anyway, is not really that much of an ask
Robert Heatley
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Pondering what’s happened today and some of the players who may have been on our radar and some of the players no longer at our club.
1. Delisting Daisy. Would we have done that if we knew today’s result was going to happen? Do we re draft him? We’d look a bit foolish.
2. Let Brandon Ellis go to GC.
3. Maybe stepped away from Ollie Wines
4. We elected not to get Butler
I’m not exactly sure how many players we draft now but players who may have been tenuous like Lang, DeLuca etc would now get a contract.
We really only have one decent pick.
Do we consider redrafting Schumacher? (I only base that on the fact that he played a game near the end of the season) Is Ciaran Byrne over his injury and/or homesickness? Might Pickett enjoy the Teague train and Eddie Betts more than he enjoyed the Bolton era?
I have no inside knowledge just a few questions and musings.
1. Delisting Daisy. Would we have done that if we knew today’s result was going to happen? Do we re draft him? We’d look a bit foolish.
2. Let Brandon Ellis go to GC.
3. Maybe stepped away from Ollie Wines
4. We elected not to get Butler
I’m not exactly sure how many players we draft now but players who may have been tenuous like Lang, DeLuca etc would now get a contract.
We really only have one decent pick.
Do we consider redrafting Schumacher? (I only base that on the fact that he played a game near the end of the season) Is Ciaran Byrne over his injury and/or homesickness? Might Pickett enjoy the Teague train and Eddie Betts more than he enjoyed the Bolton era?
I have no inside knowledge just a few questions and musings.
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