Vic How would you rate Daniel Andrews' performance as Victorian Premier?

[Kwality]

So they moved in "just months ago" and expected that a train line would be built in that time? That's just stupidity.

I guess the truth doesn't evoke as much sympathy? News probably won't cover you saying "I bought on the cheap hoping to make a mint as soon as a train line was built" or "I bought in the middle of nowhere cos I want to have my cake and eat it too with cheap housing, backyards, and inner city ammenities."

Fits perfectly on ABC radio?

 

[its free real estate]

Like this example:

Australia Talks: Tarneit commuters stuck in transport nightmare

If you're behind the wheel, or sitting in a bus or train this morning, how happy are you with the amount of time you're commuting to and from work?

www.abc.net.au

If you're behind the wheel, or sitting in a bus or train this morning, how happy are you with the amount of time you're commuting to and from work?
According to the ABC's Australia Talks national survey many of us aren't, and that's particularly true for residents of the federal electorate of Lalor in Melbourne's outer west.
The area includes the rapidly expanding suburb of Tarneit where families who moved in just months ago on the promise of good transport links to the city say they're feeling tricked — and trapped.

The transport problems in Tarneit are just are symptom of the high immigration levels. We are being dudded by all the political parties and the media who don't address it.

Even the ABC is using the word slums.

 

[its free real estate]

So they moved in "just months ago" and expected that a train line would be built in that time? That's just stupidity.

I guess the truth doesn't evoke as much sympathy? News probably won't cover you saying "I bought on the cheap hoping to make a mint as soon as a train line was built" or "I bought in the middle of nowhere cos I want to have my cake and eat it too with cheap housing, backyards, and inner city ammenities."

From the series of stories on the ABC:

At Aurora estate in Epping North, it took 11 years for a bus route to start running.​

​

Back in 2006, homebuyers there were told the train would arrive within 10 years. It has not.​

Rail infrastructure may take time, but a bus? Should be immediate.

 

[nobbyiscool]

From the series of stories on the ABC:

At Aurora estate in Epping North, it took 11 years for a bus route to start running.​

​

Back in 2006, homebuyers there were told the train would arrive within 10 years. It has not.​

Rail infrastructure may take time, but a bus? Should be immediate.

In the context of this discussion it's probably semantics - but PTV generally only update the network once a year (at most). And that comes after months of review and months of the actual detail of network planning.

In that context, a bus route for a brand new estate within 18 months is "immediate." (Of course, this all suggests that estates pop up out of nowhere with no planning, which isn't the case. The point stands though that you can't create any PT infrastructure quickly.)

 

[its free real estate]

In the context of this discussion it's probably semantics - but PTV generally only update the network once a year (at most). And that comes after months of review and months of the actual detail of network planning.

In that context, a bus route for a brand new estate within 18 months is "immediate." (Of course, this all suggests that estates pop up out of nowhere with no planning, which isn't the case. The point stands though that you can't create any PT infrastructure quickly.)

The article says it took 11 years to get a bus route.

 

[Kwality]

The article says it took 11 years to get a bus route.

i'm wrong then, blame Dan.

 

[mighty tiges]

Like this example:

Australia Talks: Tarneit commuters stuck in transport nightmare

If you're behind the wheel, or sitting in a bus or train this morning, how happy are you with the amount of time you're commuting to and from work?

www.abc.net.au

If you're behind the wheel, or sitting in a bus or train this morning, how happy are you with the amount of time you're commuting to and from work?
According to the ABC's Australia Talks national survey many of us aren't, and that's particularly true for residents of the federal electorate of Lalor in Melbourne's outer west.
The area includes the rapidly expanding suburb of Tarneit where families who moved in just months ago on the promise of good transport links to the city say they're feeling tricked — and trapped.

This is nothing new. I remember back in the 70s real estate agents promoting Deer Park as the place for young families to move to based on the promise of the Melton line being electrified soon. It still hasn't happened almost 50 years later.

Some people love to scapegoat modern immigration levels for Melbourne's lack of adequate PT infrastructure but it's hardly immigrants fault that a new suburban line hasn't been built to handle Melbourne's urban sprawl since the Glen Waverley extension from Darling back in 1930. YES, THAT WAS 90 YEARS AGO!

Goverments have been promising new lines to Rowville, Doncaster, electification of Melton's line, etc ... since the 1960s. Nothing was built. Remember one of the reasons the VFL built a stadium out at Waverley was on the promise of a railway line to service it. That never happened either. Bolte has a lot to answer for. Even the city loop which was first conceived in 1954 by the Cain Snr government was rejected by Bolte for 16 years before Hamer finally started building it. It wasn't completed until the 1980s. On top of this, existing lines were ripped up. It would be comical if it wasn't so shameful that our generation needed to rebuild and pay for the line to Mernda that was ripped up in the 1970s because the government and generation of the day said it wasn't and wouldn't be needed anymore ... Doh!

Now that we're crying out for these new railway lines, we're stuck with a lack of capacity in the inner network to run them even if they were built today. So the Melbourne metro tunnel has to be finished first before any new line can be added.

There are plans for a Wyndham Vale metro line to run alongside the RRL with new stations at Truganina, Davis Rd & Sayers Rd as well as extending the Werribee line to Wyndham Vale with a new station at Blackforest Rd. It would be these plans that would be fed to new homebuyers by developers and real estate agents as though they were happening within the next twelve months just as they BSed in the 70s about Deer Park.

But none of these plans can be built until the MMRT is finished and the capacity of the inner network allows for extra services. And that's ignoring the cost of building these new lines scaring pollies in the future off from getting them done OR another period of pollies stupidly ignoring rail/PT infrastructure for dud road projects like EWL that will do nothing to solve congestion in the inner city let alone solve transport problems in outer suburbia.

At least Andrews is trying to get things finally moving building the MMRT and removing a stack of level crossings. But our infrastructure needs have been ignored for so many decades and there's so much to do that it's going to take a couple of decades just to catch up.

 

[nobbyiscool]

This is nothing new. I remember back in the 70s real estate agents promoting Deer Park as the place for young families to move to based on the promise of the Melton line being electrified soon. It still hasn't happened almost 50 years later.

Some people love to scapegoat modern immigration levels for Melbourne's lack of adequate PT infrastructure but it's hardly immigrants fault that a new suburban line hasn't been built to handle Melbourne's urban sprawl since the Glen Waverley extension from Darling back in 1930. YES, THAT WAS 90 YEARS AGO!

Goverments have been promising new lines to Rowville, Doncaster, electification of Melton's line, etc ... since the 1960s. Nothing was built. Remember one of the reasons the VFL built a stadium out at Waverley was on the promise of a railway line to service it. That never happened either. Bolte has a lot to answer for. Even the city loop which was first conceived in 1954 by the Cain Snr government was rejected by Bolte for 16 years before Hamer finally started building it. It wasn't completed until the 1980s. On top of this, existing lines were ripped up. It would be comical if it wasn't so shameful that our generation needed to rebuild and pay for the line to Mernda that was ripped up in the 1970s because the government and generation of the day said it wasn't and wouldn't be needed anymore ... Doh!

Now that we're crying out for these new railway lines, we're stuck with a lack of capacity in the inner network to run them even if they were built today. So the Melbourne metro tunnel has to be finished first before any new line can be added.

There are plans for a Wyndham Vale metro line to run alongside the RRL with new stations at Truganina, Davis Rd & Sayers Rd as well as extending the Werribee line to Wyndham Vale with a new station at Blackforest Rd. It would be these plans that would be fed to new homebuyers by developers and real estate agents as though they were happening within the next twelve months just as they BSed in the 70s about Deer Park.

But none of these plans can be built until the MMRT is finished and the capacity of the inner network allows for extra services. And that's ignoring the cost of building these new lines scaring pollies in the future off from getting them done OR another period of pollies stupidly ignoring rail/PT infrastructure for dud road projects like EWL that will do nothing to solve congestion in the inner city let alone solve transport problems in outer suburbia.

At least Andrews is trying to get things finally moving building the MMRT and removing a stack of level crossings. But our infrastructure needs have been ignored for so many decades and there's so much to do that it's going to take a couple of decades just to catch up.

While I agree with nearly everything you say, the Mernda extension opened last year.

 

[mighty tiges]

While I agree with nearly everything you say, the Mernda extension opened last year.

True but technically it's not "new". It was putting back a rail line along an old former rail easement that use to have trains running on it from 1889 to 1959 and was ripped up beyond Epping in the 1970s.

Mernda line - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I class as "new" as being a brand new surburban rail corridor that never existed previously. The RRL is recently new but at the moment it's only for regional trains even though it stops at Tarneit and Wyndham Vale. There hasn't been a brand new surburban rail line built in Melbourne since 1930 as I said in my above post.

 

[Frank Bunn]

So they moved in "just months ago" and expected that a train line would be built in that time? That's just stupidity.

I guess the truth doesn't evoke as much sympathy? News probably won't cover you saying "I bought on the cheap hoping to make a mint as soon as a train line was built" or "I bought in the middle of nowhere cos I want to have my cake and eat it too with cheap housing, backyards, and inner city ammenities."

There's been a train line through Tarneit and Wyndham Vale for over 4 years. The development continues massively due to demand from the record population increase. People buy in Tarneit and Wyndham Vale because it's relatively affordable, it's got a 20 minute train ride to the city and other Indian immigrants live there. Only idiots would be buying houses on the assumption that further train stations or bus routes will be built.

Regardless, we still face the problems of the infrastructure not being able to keep up with the population growth. People are spending more time in the 4km car journey from station car park to home as the 30km train to work.

 

[pazza]

The problem with Tarneit station..and as a regular user I can comment on this quite freely, is about attitudes.

Some of the whingers expect to be able to park there when they want to without understanding that others have already done so. I have also caught the bus in and out of there. In peak hour it is common for those buses to be near empty which is a disgrace. The alternative is there. Use it.

 

[Pessimistic]

The problem with Tarneit station..and as a regular user I can comment on this quite freely, is about attitudes.

Some of the whingers expect to be able to park there when they want to without understanding that others have already done so. I have also caught the bus in and out of there. In peak hour it is common for those buses to be near empty which is a disgrace. The alternative is there. Use it.

When people say there should be more public transport, they mean for others to use it and leave the roads freer for their convenience.

They talk about PT being greener etc but an empty train or bus? not so much

 

[Nuggs Bunny]

Sounds like a lot of these problems could be fixed with a new $50 billion dollar tunnel for *heads in box hill to get to uni quicker.

 

[pazza]

When people say there should be more public transport, they mean for others to use it and leave the roads freer for their convenience.

They talk about PT being greener etc but an empty train or bus? not so much

No argument from me on the first bit. The locals around here have spent years wanting Leakes Road to be dual carriageway and Derrimut Road should be as well.

 

[The Punter]

The problem with Tarneit station..and as a regular user I can comment on this quite freely, is about attitudes.

Some of the whingers expect to be able to park there when they want to without understanding that others have already done so. I have also caught the bus in and out of there. In peak hour it is common for those buses to be near empty which is a disgrace. The alternative is there. Use it.

EAT. YOUR. VEGETABLES.

 

[Leeda]

Rushed in with all enthusiasm and making victorians spend a lot of money..wanted to be seen as a grand master of change in Victoria..traffic is one..health system is spluttering along...but workable and yet Dan needs to get us into a surplus..more to come...

 

[Pistol Night]

About as good as Ivan Milat's ability as a tour guide

 

[Lethality]

Population is out of control, roadworks everywhere. If we're serious about climate change, and population control, then limiting immigration would be one way to do that.

 

[nobbyiscool]

Population is out of control, roadworks everywhere. If we're serious about climate change, and population control, then limiting immigration would be one way to do that.

How does limiting immigration limit climate change? People have to live somewhere.

Roadworks are a good thing - it's building infrastructure to cope with population growth. Something that governments across Australia, from both sides of politics, ignored for decades.

 

[Lethality]

How does limiting immigration limit climate change? People have to live somewhere.

Roadworks are a good thing - it's building infrastructure to cope with population growth. Something that governments across Australia, from both sides of politics, ignored for decades.

Population growth probably slows down if the original country has to deal with it.

Construction also adds to climate change.

 

[Pessimistic]

Hopefully the city becomes more efficient without becoming crampt

 

[Adz]

Gang crisis (confirmed by Pol today)
Recycling crisis
Train performances at their lowest levels ever
Road toll at its highest levels since the 70s
Cladding crisis
Debt levels higher than every other state combined.
Industrial action and striking through the roof
The list goes on..

Not just incompetent but dangerous.

It reads more like a Cuban or Rwandan government track record.

 

[GreyWind]

Gang crisis (confirmed by Pol today)

Correct.

Recycling crisis

Correct. State government and council failure at a massive scale.

Train performances at their lowest levels ever

Going to need a source on that one.

Road toll at its highest levels since the 70s

Correct, but I fail to see how that is a government issue.

Cladding crisis

Correct, also happening in Sydney.

Debt levels higher than every other state combined.

Going to need a source on that.

Industrial action and striking through the roof

Apart from the RTBU who else has gone on strike and commenced industrial action?

 

[Pakenhamsaint]

Train performances at their lowest levels ever

Only reason for that is the contracts were changed.

Even then it's not much different to Connex:

Connex trains run late - again

It probably won't come as breaking news if you caught a train in Melbourne last month - thousands of Connex trains ran late.

www.theage.com.au

 

[go you pups]

There's been a train line through Tarneit and Wyndham Vale for over 4 years. The development continues massively due to demand from the record population increase. People buy in Tarneit and Wyndham Vale because it's relatively affordable, it's got a 20 minute train ride to the city and other Indian immigrants live there. Only idiots would be buying houses on the assumption that further train stations or bus routes will be built.

Regardless, we still face the problems of the infrastructure not being able to keep up with the population growth. People are spending more time in the 4km car journey from station car park to home as the 30km train to work.

Yep agreed

The last point especially

Driving around areas of Melton/Bacchus Marsh in morning/afternoon peak from say 630-930am and 3-7pm around the train stations is a good 10-15 minute crawl, particularly in the arvo for myself.

Melton had its car park upgraded a year or two ago and Bacchus Marsh is having a massive station upgrade as part of the Ballarat line upgrades, Rockbank station is unrecognisable now compared to how it was say 2 years ago and just that area in general which will eventually link up to Caroline Springs one way and Tarneit the other way (it's filling up towards Melton pretty quickly).

The West is catching up to the East/Southeast quickly in regards to filling in the suburban gaps