Religion Ask a Christian - Continued in Part 2

[Chief]

Continued in Part Two:

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/ask-a-christian-part-2.1295001/unread

 

[Capital Magpie]

I asked a simple question 'why create'? yet no one is able to answer this question yet, they seem to know about the properties of this deity. (aka loving, kind , caring, personal)

It's impossible for God's creations to understand God's ways because God is so far above us. The Bible indicates however that God created man (humanity) in His image. I don't know why He did. I could speculate that perhaps He was lonely, having always been there alone throughout eternity.

 

[Baltimore Jack]

It's impossible for God's creations to understand God's ways because God is so far above us. The Bible indicates however that God created man (humanity) in His image. I don't know why He did. I could speculate that perhaps He was lonely, having always been there alone throughout eternity.

oh dear

Luckily for you, you weren't born in Pakistan or you would be telling us how good the Islamic faith is in exactly the same glowing terms

 

[Capital Magpie]

You said because you were born into and raised into a christian upbringing you will have an advantage over someone who has not, such as myself. How is that, in the eyes of our creators, fair at all?

I have said that I am lucky in my circumstance. I could have been born in east Greenland and raised in Inuit culture and have not heard of God until I grew older and studied and perhaps went to a western education institution. There I might have learned of God and studied his teachings further, out of interest, and eventually I might have come to the faith. But I wasn't born in east Greenland, but that was out of my control.

It's not for me to say whether it's fair or not, it's just a fact.

Its like saying children in Ethiopia just should have been born somewhere better.

They might have been born somewhere else, but they weren't and that's simply factual. You're the one saying that I said they should have been.

 

[Capital Magpie]

oh dear

Luckily for you, you weren't born in Pakistan or you would be telling us how good the Islamic faith is in exactly the same glowing terms

See my post below where I address that point, except I use east Greenland as an example.

 

[Roylion]

The Bible indicates however that God created man (humanity) in His image.

It's far more likely the man created God in his own image. As has been the case for so many Gods throughout various civilisations.

 

[Boston tiger]

Here is my question: why do you think that is?

Why did God make a reality in which his existence is unproven?

What scientific proof would be enough ? You have already got a Big Bang going bang. Innate matter producing love. Those that are lost are now found.

But to answer your question .. God wants you to use your soul. He likes all things about us and has given us a wonderful canvas to express ourselves ..but God wants good strong shiny robust souls. Cherish the soul.

 

[Gethelred]

What scientific proof would be enough ? You have already got a Big Bang going bang. Innate matter producing love. Those that are lost are now found.

But to answer your question .. God wants you to use your soul. He likes all things about us and has given us a wonderful canvas to express ourselves ..but God wants good strong shiny robust souls. Cherish the soul.

Thanks for the answer, but that just prompts the next question, what does he want souls that aren't his for?

And there's no answer to that which isn't at least vaguely ominous.

 

[Capital Magpie]

Thanks for the answer, but that just prompts the next question, what does he want souls that aren't his for?

And there's no answer to that which isn't at least vaguely ominous.

So you're asking people to read God's mind. That ain't possible or rational.

 

[Baltimore Jack]

So you're asking people to read God's mind. That ain't possible or rational.

unless you equate it with reading the mind of the Easter Bunny......same result

 

[Gethelred]

So you're asking people to read God's mind. That ain't possible or rational.

Then, pray tell, how do you know he loves you?

 

[Capital Magpie]

Then, pray tell, how do you know he loves you?

I have faith that He does mate. That was/is the teaching of Jesus.

 

[Gethelred]

I have faith that He does mate. That was/is the teaching of Jesus.

Inconsistent.

You have faith that he loves you, but don't think it's rational or logical to read his mind. I too think it's not rational or logical to read the mind of god, but methinks our reasons for that differ somewhat.

 

[Capital Magpie]

Inconsistent.

You have faith that he loves you, but don't think it's rational or logical to read his mind. I too think it's not rational or logical to read the mind of god, but methinks our reasons for that differ somewhat.

In what way is it inconsistent? We both agree that it isn't logical to think that i can read God's mind, but it isn't illogical to have faith that God loves me (and us all) nonetheless. faith doesn't require logic to function effectively.

In fact, what I just wrote is so logical I can almost visualise Mr Spock saying it to Captain Kirk on the Flight Deck of the Star Ship Enterprise.

 

[Cooldude]

In what way is it inconsistent? We both agree that it isn't logical to think that i can read God's mind, but it isn't illogical to have faith that God loves me (and us all) nonetheless. faith doesn't require logic to function effectively.

May wanna have a word with yourself first before you contradict yourself

If it doesn't require logic, then it isn't logical. You just admitted faith is illogical, yet somehow trying to argue it is logical. The absolute mess you're in, congratulations, takes some talent to contradict yourself within 15 words of each other

 

[Capital Magpie]

May wanna have a word with yourself first before you contradict yourself

If it doesn't require logic, then it isn't logic. You just admitted faith is illogical, yet somehow trying to argue it is logical. The absolute mess you're in

Thanks for the patronising semantics dude. Keep chipping away, but is that all you got? I stand by what I wrote. You can have faith without a logical mind or approach. Equally, you can faith and a logical mind or approach. Faith stands alone.

 

[Cooldude]

Thanks for the patronising semantics dude. Keep chipping away, but is that all you got? I stand by what I wrote. You can have faith without a logical mind or approach. Equally, you can faith and a logical mind or approach. Faith stands alone.

I mean, if you write rubbish you kinda deserve being patronised

Wow you basically try to have the cake and eat it, too, huh. Trying to argue your faith is logical while being illogical at the same time, how cravenly convenient. It makes absolutely no sense to any sound mind, but I guess that's the point of faith/delusion: it is whatever you want it to be, no matter how contradictory and stupid. You have just demonstrated it

 

[Capital Magpie]

I mean, if you write rubbish you kinda deserve being patronised

Wow you basically try to have the cake and eat it, too, huh. Trying to argue your faith is logical while being illogical at the same time, how cravenly convenient. It makes absolutely no sense to any sound mind, but I guess that's the point of faith/delusion: it is whatever you want it to be, no matter how contradictory and stupid. You have just demonstrated it

It's a pity you can't or won't acknowledge my point of view, but that's up to you.

Cravenly convenient? (I suspect you just liked the alliteration). Delusion? Contradictory? Stupid? It's a pity you can't argue your case/make your observations without resorting to insulting the person your debating.

 

[Vdubs]

It doesnt tend to go well though, when missionaries attempt to convert humans that are free from modern society...

They attempt to spread the word. Those that are receptive are the ones who God converts.

 

[iBeng]

They attempt to spread the word. Those that are receptive are the ones who God converts.

And just...what, screw the ones who are not receptive? What makes them less worthy? They were not chosen? I thought anyone could become converted?

These rules are confusing!

 

[HARKER]

I have faith that He does mate. That was/is the teaching of Jesus.

Dear god....one has to stop using terms like 'faith' as though it somehow exalts them above people that don't have faith.

At the end of the day, we all have nothing. It's just where we are. We wish/hope/believe otherwise, but we just don't know...and that's OK.

 

[Cooldude]

It's a pity you can't or won't acknowledge my point of view, but that's up to you.

Cravenly convenient? (I suspect you just liked the alliteration). Delusion? Contradictory? Stupid? It's a pity you can't argue your case/make your observations without resorting to insulting the person your debating.

No, I have acknowledged your point of view: I acknowledged it as non-sensical and stupid

Let's stop with the playing the victim thing for a second, those aren't insults, those are just descriptions (apt ones) of your argument. To insult you would be like calling you a mother****er, which I didn't do and would never do

I have highlighted why your point of view is contradictory and utterly dumb, as you managed to contradict yourself in the space of one sentence. Just because you don't want to confront the reality that your views are demonstrably inconsistent, doesn't mean people are "insulting" you.

You can't say something is logical while saying it doesn't require logic. It certainly is even crazier when not long ago you said your faith is powered by "the power of reason", you seemingly choose when you want logic to apply or disengage with your faith depending on how it suits you. That's the very definition of an illogical, convenient playdoe standpoint

 

[Gethelred]

They attempt to spread the word. Those that are receptive are the ones who God converts.

I've already told you that Christianity was used as a weapon against the indigenous peoples of the world. How valuable is the mantra of pacifism when you are the oppressing power; how useful is your religion when it tells slaves not to revolt, the culturally different to conform, those who are taken from to cede willingly.

 

[Vdubs]

And just...what, screw the ones who are not receptive? What makes them less worthy? They were not chosen? I thought anyone could become converted?

These rules are confusing!

They are not rules. Reaching out to those that so far are unreached is a challenge, and many missionaries are up for it. They don't use force. There are clearly those who are spiritually hungry, who will receive The Good News for what it is; others are either ambivalent, or negative.
How God deals with those whose lives have been exemplary but for whatever reason have never been subjected to the Good News is unknown, but we like to think He will be mercifully appropriate.
It is those who blatantly( have heard the Good News, and ) reject it that you should be concerned about; they appear to be the ones deceived by Satan.

 

[Capital Magpie]

Dear god....one has to stop using terms like 'faith' as though it somehow exalts them above people that don't have faith.

At the end of the day, we all have nothing. It's just where we are. We wish/hope/believe otherwise, but we just don't know...and that's OK.

You might not have faith, and I think that's a pity, but that doesn't mean people of faith have to stop using the term. Faith is rather central to any discussion about God and religion I would have thought.

 

[Cooldude]

I've already told you that Christianity was used as a weapon against the indigenous peoples of the world. How valuable is the mantra of pacifism when you are the oppressing power; how useful is your religion when it tells slaves not to revolt, the culturally different to conform, those who are taken from to cede willingly.

It's kinda scary when one is so self-indulged in their own faith that they are willing to overlook their religion's roles in atrocities like inquisitions, colonialism, crusades, etc.

It's even scarier when you know these people are merely repeating rehearsed lines and talking points drummed into them by their religious leaders, and they know nothing other than to keep repeating the same rehearsed lines. It's the definition of brainwashing: they are only repeating these lines to win the approval of their religious community (to look cool) and their god, not because they honestly thought through them and cross-examined these beliefs objectively