Preview Round 4, 2020: St.Kilda v Richmond - Marvel Stadium, Saturday 27th June, 4:35PM AEST *MADDIE'S MATCH*

[BrutThough]

Carlisle Howard Ryder Marshall King

Membrey Battle Wilkie are medium sized players who play smaller then their size. Membrey with the elite jump makes you think he can play tall. By my count that leaves 14 “smalls” plus the 3 above. Plenty of leg speed.

No they dont.

Membrey is mid sized but has always played as if he was key position sized. I know Membrey plays tall because I see him play tall every week.

Battle has also always played tall. Last year he played at CHB on genuine key forwards and never looked out of place. He might be a few cm shorter than modern key positions players but thats the position he has always played.

Wilkie may technically be capable of playing on mid/small forwards but they isnt his best position. We saw that last week with him playing in Stephenson and Elliot - he doesnt have the speed to go one-on-one with those quick, small players which make up the majority of forward line these days. He was more comfortable playing on Naughton the week prior than on the smaller types. While he isnt a genuine key back, his defending style suits the taller forward than a small forward.

 

[BrutThough]

He was playing as a mid in the WAFL and got selected by us. He must have done something right or our recruitment is amateur. We might as well give him a go before writing him off. We have given players 5 years or below standard performance, surely we can give him a run of games before deciding not to persist.

He was picked up as a key defender from Richmond VFL because the majority on our list were injured and we needed someone as cover immediately. He impressed against Jack Riewoldt a few weeks before we picked him up.

 

[The_Steadier]

Surely having Marshall be our best mid is not an acceptable situation to be in.
Our true mids must learn to win on their own merits when Roma isn't winning clearance and CPs to help them look better than they are. They too must develop.

Oh snap!
I never considered that, great point.

Every clearance marshall gets is one less opportunity for our mids to learn and do their job.

Never fear sole ruck fans though- I'm sure regular transmission will resume if 2 rucks doesn't work tomorrow, and marshall will go back to being sole ruck for the rest of this year.

But this little window of 4 weeks without roma getting clearances and being our best mid would definately have given the coaches a far better look at the true depth of our midfield woes.... insight they may not have fully gotten had roma been rucking solo this year to date.

 

[MOLTEN GANGLANDS]

I would be disappointed if we didn’t think internally he could ply midfield minutes once he had a full afl pre season. Considering we love the fact he has all the attributes to be a significant point of difference for us and we lack explosive or big bodied players.

yeah, but let him develop in the guts at sandy if that's the case no? I can't remember him playing any significant minutes at sandy in the midfield last year. I'd be keen to see it though, see if he can find the footy/win some contests

 

[bird_man]

Oh snap!
I never considered that, great point.

Every clearance marshall gets is one less opportunity for our mids to learn and do their job.

Never fear sole ruck fans though- I'm sure regular transmission will resume if 2 rucks doesn't work tomorrow, and marshall will go back to being sole ruck for the rest of this year.

But this little window of 4 weeks without roma getting clearances and being our best mid would definately have given the coaches a far better look at the true depth of our midfield woes.... insight they may not have fully gotten had roma been rucking solo this year to date.

That's a new one.

Marshall is hogging all the clearances from the real midfielders.

I reckon we had a fair idea about how average our midfield was without having to take Marshall out of there.

 

[MOLTEN GANGLANDS]

Last night watching the dogs and swans game got me thinking about our side and in particular our mids.

One of my best mates is a dogs supporter, so kept a close eye on their side last year and this year to a degree. Bailey Smith started pretty much for first 6 or 7 games for them last season and was played predominantly on ball. I can tell you right now, I thought he was rushed, an average kick and we both questioned the pick up and who on earth Bevo was playing him on ball with th3 quality that they have. He wasn't played on the half back line, half forward line but purely in the middle. He was towelled up, run down and got caught holding the ball more times than I can remember, but Bevo stuck far.

Towards the latter half of the year the kid got more confident and started to rack up 20-25 pretty much every game and have an actual impact. He was having games were he would hit high numbers earlier on then would drop back down to 15 or so.

Fast forward his 2nd pre season and he is their second most important player behind Bont. We are talking about a Dogs midfield containing the likes of AA calibre players in Bont, Dunkley, McRae, Hunter, Libba etc.

Now I get back to our side, we have had arguable one of the worse midfields over the last 6-8 years. In that time we have had the same players time and time again with little or no development with trying others to run through there.

I look at it now, Clark give him 10-15 games purely on ball. Yes he will only average 15 or so for the first 10, but watch is confidence grow after that. Do the same thing for Coffield as well, see what he can do, he played a bit through their in his juniors etc. We seem to stick every young player either on a half back flank or a forward flank and say we need to develop your body etc. There is always some sort of excuse for us.

Heck we have Sinclair who is naturally one of our better kicks. Has he ever been given a period of 10-15 games as a pure mid??? Has a strong body/endurance beast/can kick a ball and has a footy brain. Nope half forward or wing the whole time.

For whatever reason we do not back our young players in and throw them in the thick of it. The only one is King and that has actually surprised me that we have thrown him in giving him game time. Look at him, our best forward and hasn't looked out of place.

Change up the bloody midfield and I don't mean by throwing Marsh in there!!

Rant over!

THIS is why I rail against ross

But also smith was clearly right for it, he was a pure mid in his draft year and I was super keen on him, I posted a few times saying smith>walsh (then shut up quick after walsh got off to a flyer and smith lagged). He's also a consummate pro and probably a fair bit fitter than most his age. You can't do this with all kids. But with that said, I think it's hunter's time for sure, give him a year in the guts and see how he fairs.

Also, you can't do it with too many kids, coff+hunter in the square at the same time wouldn't end well for us

 

[MOLTEN GANGLANDS]

No they dont.

Membrey is mid sized but has always played as if he was key position sized. I know Membrey plays tall because I see him play tall every week.

Battle has also always played tall. Last year he played at CHB on genuine key forwards and never looked out of place. He might be a few cm shorter than modern key positions players but thats the position he has always played.

Wilkie may technically be capable of playing on mid/small forwards but they isnt his best position. We saw that last week with him playing in Stephenson and Elliot - he doesnt have the speed to go one-on-one with those quick, small players which make up the majority of forward line these days. He was more comfortable playing on Naughton the week prior than on the smaller types. While he isnt a genuine key back, his defending style suits the taller forward than a small forward.

agree, apart from the wilkie comment, the delivery for both stephenson and elliot's marks was seeker missile type stuff

 

[Rolland soho]

I'm very sure I've never said we're not trying to win.
But if Byrnes or Bytel get a game does that mean we are in a development phase?

I would say the longer it goes the less likely you will see either of them play this year. Without being able to play VFL you surely can't be ready for AFL after playing nothing but 16 a side touch footy scratch matches.

 

[pebblesofsand]

Oh snap!
I never considered that, great point.

Every clearance marshall gets is one less opportunity for our mids to learn and do their job.

Never fear sole ruck fans though- I'm sure regular transmission will resume if 2 rucks doesn't work tomorrow, and marshall will go back to being sole ruck for the rest of this year.

But this little window of 4 weeks without roma getting clearances and being our best mid would definately have given the coaches a far better look at the true depth of our midfield woes.... insight they may not have fully gotten had roma been rucking solo this year to date.

Yeah but half of most ruckman's clearances come from ruck infringements - and nobody anywhere in football world understands those rules.

Players who spend all game sticking their head over the ball at centre bounces gets half as many free kicks as ruckmen.

 

[aussierulesrules]

Seems like a tall team. Has anyone else noticed?

 

[AirWinmar]

Last week our downfall was our execution with the ball (short handballs and poor kicking) + our positioning at stoppages and congestion. Too many times we had 2-3-4 players next to each other. Pies would drop off the contest and when they won the ball back would exploit the open space.

Our endeavour was there. We wanted to play and play to Rattens style. However we played right into the pies plan with our poor execution. In the review and on the track this week, we had a big focus on ball movement from stoppages around the ground and transition set up.

We should see an improvement on Saturday. I will be concerned if we don’t. I’m not concerned with getting smashed the way we did against the pies because i personally felt like we primarily did the most damage to ourselves.

Thanks for the info on what they working on at training.

Watching the game against the pies I thought we got shell shocked early and our position at stoppages and also around the ground when kicking to a marking contest was terrible. Stark contrast to how well we were structured against the dogs at stoppages and in marking contests. Good to hear their focussing on that.

 

[aussierulesrules]

Great to see Battle in, although I feel like we've gone in too tall and he'll be left without any decent role.

Since the dogs win when we looked as fast as we have for year, we've replaced Geary and Hind with Marsh and Battle.

We're not that much slower, given that Marsh would be the quickest on the list (although Hind would be next quickest), so it's really just Geary v Battle.

 

[gringo2011]

I would be disappointed if we didn’t think internally he could ply midfield minutes once he had a full afl pre season. Considering we love the fact he has all the attributes to be a significant point of difference for us and we lack explosive or big bodied players.

Yeah, he arrived in the supplementary rookie period so got a very late start and came from working a job and training for amateur footy. Last year he would have had a very limited fitness base.

 

[gringo2011]

Almost every premiership side has 18-21 year olds. That does not make it a development year for them.

Bytel and Byrnes haven't even played a game so you can't use them as examples.

You don't bring in 5 guys 23-31 and say it's a development year.

Those old guys just fill in an age bracket that we didn't have. We were either old or very young. 10 years of poor recruiting meant the guys that should be in that age bracket weren't there.

 

[Moral Decay]

Seems like a tall team. Has anyone else noticed?

Too tall if we lose and spot on if we don't.

 

[gringo2011]

You can still play young players in a year you are trying to win. It’s madness to suggest otherwise. Our backline isn’t that young. Wb were probably younger than us the year they won the flag. It’s a cop out for those who think richo was the problem and rats is the master. And it’s not a flag or a development year. That’s another cop out. And you name 4 players. 2 have been in the system 3 years and the other 2 haven’t even played a game. As for Marshall playing forward and ruck well that’s what the coach thinks is best for us to win games. It isn’t because it’s a development year. I thought you would have better points than that to prove it’s a development year.

Wilkie isn't young but he's a second year player. Clark and Coffield wouldn't have 30 games between them. Howard hasn't played 50 games yet. We had Carlisle who is old and experienced but we aren't exactly a premiership back 6.

 

[bird_man]

Those old guys just fill in an age bracket that we didn't have. We were either old or very young. 10 years of poor recruiting meant the guys that should be in that age bracket weren't there.

Actually, the majority of our list falls into that age bracket.

They were brought in because they are meant to improve us.

As I said, i doubt Ratten sees this as a development year.

 

[gringo2011]

We have a senior core and they are all playing. No interest about how they are going now. The stats suggest we are similar in every department.

The quality gulf is huge. Carlton have amassed the most first round pick players in AFL history....it's gone badly so far. It helped the Dogs that a lot of their kids happened to be guns.

 

[Johnnyrayflamingo]

The quality gulf is huge. Carlton have amassed the most first round pick players in AFL history....it's gone badly so far. It helped the Dogs that a lot of their kids happened to be guns.

The Blues...are still coming. Lol.

 

[plugger66]

The quality gulf is huge. Carlton have amassed the most first round pick players in AFL history....it's gone badly so far. It helped the Dogs that a lot of their kids happened to be guns.

That’s not my point. My point is it isn’t a development year.

 

[plugger66]

Wilkie isn't young but he's a second year player. Clark and Coffield wouldn't have 30 games between them. Howard hasn't played 50 games yet. We had Carlisle who is old and experienced but we aren't exactly a premiership back 6.

Yep so like I said not a young side in the backs.

 

[George]

Johnnyrayflamingo stop bringing your political bullshit to a football thread.

 

[gringo2011]

Actually, the majority of our list falls into that age bracket.

As I said, i doubt Ratten sees this as a development year.

Our side looks pretty ordinary with hardly any players left from 4 years ago and no stars. I'd say we look like we have selected players to stay competitive while doing an on the hop rebuild. In a couple of years I doubt many players that were on the 2016 list will be playing senior footy. King, Billings, Marshall, Gresham, Clark, Wilkie, Battle, Howard and Membrey are probably the core side that we'll build around. Butler, Jones and Long look like they'll be part of it too.

Several others are probably already listed but guys like Hanners (8 games as a Saint and at the end), Roberton (5 games in the last 3 years), Calisle (49 games in 5 years) and Geary who's body is starting to be less resilient are our older heads. The first list really only has Billings, Gresham and Membrey as experienced players.

I forgot Ross, but apparently he's not even VFL standard so he doesn't count

 

[gringo2011]

Yep so like I said not a young side in the backs.

But it's leaving off a major factor. It's like meeting up for an online date and finding the lady used to have a penis. She's technically a female but you haven't been given the full description.

 

[plugger66]

But it's leaving off a major factor. It's like meeting up for an online date and finding the lady used to have a penis. She's technically a female but you haven't been given the full description.

No it’s like saying you have a young side when you don’t. The backline isn’t old but it’s not young.