Preview Round 4, 2020: St.Kilda v Richmond - Marvel Stadium, Saturday 27th June, 4:35PM AEST *MADDIE'S MATCH*

[plugger66]

English has been outstanding in the past two dogs wins.

Maybe, just maybe he was beaten by the St.Kilda combination?

He was. Never said he wasn’t. However our combination has lost 2 out of 3 games. People claim the combination for the win but those who believe in 2 rucks won’t claim the combination for the loss. Whilst I don’t agree with 2 rucks and think Ryder should be dropped I’m not claiming the combination are responsible for the win or the losses.

 

[plugger66]

It looks like we're copping plenty of the hard games early on which is a terrific pressure test for the whole group.

With the commitment to playing King, and Coff by the looks of it, along with the commitment to Ryder that he be played in the seniors, new game plan, 4 other recruits to bed in and a couple of new mids to blood, playing Marshall up forward for a while is an opportunity to add some more tricks to his bag.

We want to remember that last year he came from nowhere to be the 2nd or 3rd best ruck in the comp, so theres little worry about him fulfilling that roll into the future.
This idea that he needs to play in the ruck to develop is a total misnomer.
He only needs to improve his tap work, which he will do at training 5 days a week with Ryder and Lade assisting, but aside from that, as a ruckman he's good to go already.

Since we're stuck having a development year, as evidenced by the above and the trading of Juicy, we have an opportunity to let Roma have time forward which will pay dividends in the long term.

The discussion around this is being skewed and saturated by individuals who are obsessed with the negative viewpoint.
Ratts and co have a plan, and this is part of it.
Ryder was not brought in to help win games, he's a development aid in a development year, pure and simple.

We have an incredible brains trust at the club now, and this is part of their plan.
We should be as positive about Roma's forward development as we are about King's..

What’s this development year crap? Why would it be a development year if we recruited 5 ready made players? No way the club did that thinking it’s a development year. If we did we are really stuffed as a club. And if it a development year we are a quarter of the way through the year without blooding a new player. I honestly believe some hope this coach will work so much they are making excuses for our firm all year.

 

[kernelT]

Last week our downfall was our execution with the ball (short handballs and poor kicking) + our positioning at stoppages and congestion. Too many times we had 2-3-4 players next to each other. Pies would drop off the contest and when they won the ball back would exploit the open space.

Our endeavour was there. We wanted to play and play to Rattens style. However we played right into the pies plan with our poor execution. In the review and on the track this week, we had a big focus on ball movement from stoppages around the ground and transition set up.

We should see an improvement on Saturday. I will be concerned if we don’t. I’m not concerned with getting smashed the way we did against the pies because i personally felt like we primarily did the most damage to ourselves.

Just feels like exactly what we were saying all throughout Richo's tenure… we only had 4 players (ross, billings, membrey, lonie) last week in the side that were on the list in 2015, so we've completely rebuilt the list to address execution and improve our skill level.

It's early days for a new coach and list, but I'm not going to give high fives for trying.

Ratts is not a newbie, he's a smart bloke and is capable of adjusting the GP to overcome different opposition approaches.

Poor kicking though, not sure how we could still be selecting sides that can't hit their teammates. Jones needs to handball at every opportunity if hes playing IMO.

 

[gringo2011]

I think we'd all love a tall, fast, strong midfielder in our side.

Just because someone is tall, fast and strong though, doesn't make them a midfielder.

I do laugh when people just suggest we turn so and so into a midfielder and think it's going to be as easy as that.

Marsh played a bit as a mid in the WAFL in his comeback and he was just average in the lower league. I'm not sure why people think a guy that can't average more than 8 touches at the moment is just going to become a quality midfielder at AFL level.

He was playing as a mid in the WAFL and got selected by us. He must have done something right or our recruitment is amateur. We might as well give him a go before writing him off. We have given players 5 years or below standard performance, surely we can give him a run of games before deciding not to persist.

 

[plugger66]

Just feels like exactly what we were saying all throughout Richo's tenure… we only had 4 players (ross, billings, membrey, lonie) last week in the side that were on the list in 2015, so we've completely rebuilt the list to address execution and improve our skill level.

It's early days for a new coach and list, but I'm not going to give high fives for trying.

Ratts is not a newbie, he's a smart bloke and is capable of adjusting the GP to overcome different opposition approaches.

Poor kicking though, not sure how we could still be selecting sides that can't hit their teammates. Jones needs to handball at every opportunity if hes playing IMO.

We haven’t got very good players. It’s pretty simple.

 

[plugger66]

He was playing as a mid in the WAFL and got selected by us. He must have done something right or our recruitment is amateur. We might as well give him a go before writing him off. We have given players 5 years or below standard performance, surely we can give him a run of games before deciding not to persist.

Funny that he never played as a mid for us until last game. Not once at sandy. Key back or forward.

 

[bird_man]

He was playing as a mid in the WAFL and got selected by us. He must have done something right or our recruitment is amateur. We might as well give him a go before writing him off. We have given players 5 years or below standard performance, surely we can give him a run of games before deciding not to persist.

I doubt we picked him on the back of his form on the ball in the WAFL.

More than likely it was because he played some very good football for the Pies and was showing he was keen to get back into football. We also picked him pre season on the back of Carlisle and Robbo going down from memory which suggests we weren't picking him up to play in the middle.

If we were picking him on his form as an on baller there would have been 20 blokes in the WAFL ahead of him.

 

[stavro#4]

Just feels like exactly what we were saying all throughout Richo's tenure… we only had 4 players (ross, billings, membrey, lonie) last week in the side that were on the list in 2015, so we've completely rebuilt the list to address execution and improve our skill level.

It's early days for a new coach and list, but I'm not going to give high fives for trying.

Ratts is not a newbie, he's a smart bloke and is capable of adjusting the GP to overcome different opposition approaches.

Poor kicking though, not sure how we could still be selecting sides that can't hit their teammates. Jones needs to handball at every opportunity if hes playing IMO.

Look very different to Richos teams in terms of play style.

We haven’t seen a lot of the long bomb.
We have numbers forward of the centre on the regular.
We aren’t seeing the switch switch switch turnover.
We are taking the game on.
We should be 2/1 not 1/2.


We have had a lot to get excited about. Especially this time last week. Challenge from Ratten is to deliver consistency

 

[stavro#4]

Funny that he never played as a mid for us until last game. Not once at sandy. Key back or forward.

I would be disappointed if we didn’t think internally he could ply midfield minutes once he had a full afl pre season. Considering we love the fact he has all the attributes to be a significant point of difference for us and we lack explosive or big bodied players.

 

[The_Steadier]

Just feels like exactly what we were saying all throughout Richo's tenure… we only had 4 players (ross, billings, membrey, lonie) last week in the side that were on the list in 2015, so we've completely rebuilt the list to address execution and improve our skill level.

It's early days for a new coach and list, but I'm not going to give high fives for trying.

Ratts is not a newbie, he's a smart bloke and is capable of adjusting the GP to overcome different opposition approaches.

Poor kicking though, not sure how we could still be selecting sides that can't hit their teammates. Jones needs to handball at every opportunity if hes playing IMO.

Every team has poor kicks- even flag winning ones.
The trick is to not have too many of them.

Jack steven is as rubbish a kick as jones- doesn't mean he should have been instructed to only handball.

We can be successful with a few crap disposers in the team, so long as they make up for it in other areas and there aren't too many of them on the field at once.

 

[plugger66]

I would be disappointed if we didn’t think internally he could ply midfield minutes once he had a full afl pre season. Considering we love the fact he has all the attributes to be a significant point of difference for us and we lack explosive or big bodied players.

It would be more disappointing if we thought he could become a capable afl midfielder. He has one more week to prove he can. Hope he does.

 

[kernelT]

I doubt we picked him on the back of his form on the ball in the WAFL.

More than likely it was because he played some very good football for the Pies and was showing he was keen to get back into football. We also picked him pre season on the back of Carlisle and Robbo going down from memory.

If we were picking him on his form as an on baller there would have been 20 blokes in the WAFL ahead of him.

100 % - delusional to think he is going to make it as an AFL midfielder at this stage and we don't need to see him play 10 games there to confrim it.
He averaged 22 disposals in the WAFL.

Solid versatile guy to have on the list to plug holes.

Dunstan an average AFL midfielder is miles ahead of Marsh.

 

[ScrappyDo]

What’s this development year crap? Why would it be a development year if we recruited 5 ready made players? No way the club did that thinking it’s a development year. If we did we are really stuffed as a club. And if it a development year we are a quarter of the way through the year without blooding a new player. I honestly believe some hope this coach will work so much they are making excuses for our firm all year.

You have got to be willfully blind not to realize this is a development year.
Our gun full forward is 19yo and has 3 games under his belt.
Our back line without Carlisle is still in nappies.
Our best talent in Clark is 21yo, Coff and Bytel are 20yo, and Byrnes is 18.
And the mature recruits were brought in because there was a recognized hole in the list because Trout couldn't draft and Richo couldn't develop.

Anyone who believes we're chasing a premiership this year is outright delusional.
And you're the one who always says the club and coaches know better, so ergo playing Marshall forward is obviously the correct thing to do, and if you disagree then you must be wrong..

 

[bird_man]

You have got to be willfully blind not to realize this is a development year.
Our gun full forward is 19yo and has 3 games under his belt.
Our back line without Carlisle is still in nappies.
Our best talent in Clark is 21yo, Coff and Bytel are 20yo, and Byrnes is 18.
And the mature recruits were brought in because there was a recognized hole in the list because Trout couldn't draft and Richo couldn't develop.

Anyone who believes we're chasing a premiership this year is outright delusional.
And you're the one who always says the club and coaches know better, so ergo playing Marshall forward is obviously the correct thing to do, and if you disagree then you must be wrong..

Almost every premiership side has 18-21 year olds. That does not make it a development year for them.

Bytel and Byrnes haven't even played a game so you can't use them as examples.

You don't bring in 5 guys 23-31 and say it's a development year.

 

[Dr Spaceman]

Its me , but unlike some on here i give second chances and dont hold grudges , i just thought he looked so much better playing up the ground instead of him crapping his pants that his man was going to score a goal , Im not saying he is the answer i was just saying he looked a lot better than he has in years

He will always make mistakes in games but I do appreciate that he will never back down from a contest and always put his body on the line.

Correct. If nothing else he’s very courageous

 

[lewdogs]

To be fair,. Last night was the first time all year English had more than 12 hit outs.

I've got no issue with Ryder's form. He a very good back up for Marshall.

Unfortunately though, Marshall's game has gone backwards.

Completely agree, which is why I said we need to find a way to get Marshall in games if we are going to continue with this ruck setup.

 

[pebblesofsand]

OK I get it - if a bloke plays 80% of a game at half forward but starts in the centre square 6 times is he's actually a midfielder not a forward.

 

[hayes]

Here’s a crazy thought maybe Marsh won’t be playing forward, I think he’ll be running with Dustin Martin whenever he goes. Only way I can make sense of all these talls in the team.

 

[ScrappyDo]

Almost every premiership side has 18-21 year olds. That does not make it a development year for them.

Bytel and Byrnes haven't even played a game so you can't use them as examples.

You don't bring in 5 guys 23-31 and say it's a development year.

That's just not the case. We exchanged half our senior core for other seniors of slightly younger average.
It's not like we had a prime list the got an elite free agent.

What we did this off season amounts to a heart transplant on field, and a brain transplant off field. You can equate this season to rehabilitation post surgery. We're learning to walk again.

The make up of the team spells it out. Development..

 

[bird_man]

OK I get it - if a bloke plays 80% of a game at half forward but starts in the centre square 6 times is he's actually a midfielder not a forward.

No one suggested he was playing as a midfielder did they?

What post are you referring to? It would help if you could quote the post so we know what you are talking about.

 

[bird_man]

That's just not the case. We exchanged half our senior core for other seniors of slightly younger average.
It's not like we had a prime list the got an elite free agent.

What we did this off season amounts to a heart transplant on field, and a brain transplant off field. You can equate this season to rehabilitation post surgery. We're learning to walk again.

The make up of the team spells it out. Development..

How does the make up of the team spell out development?

We don't have one draftee from last year in the side.

We have one from the year before.

What half of our senior core did we replace?

We traded Bruce so we could play two rucks. One of which is over 30.

We would not have traded away Steven if we had a say in it.

If this year is only about development why have we waited until now to play Josh Battle who is one of our most promising young players?

Why are we only playing one player drafted over the last 2 years?

We might be trying to develop areas of our game, much like every other club, but we are clearly picking a side to win every week.

 

[kernelT]

OK I get it - if a bloke plays 80% of a game at half forward but starts in the centre square 6 times is he's actually a midfielder not a forward.

There were only 21 centre bounces, so he attended about a third of them and registered one tackle and just a handful of possessions.

I guess the question is, if Marsh is doing a ‘run-with’ role then why is Steele only having 13 touches... he gets more disposals when playing as a tagger himself.

 

[plugger66]

You have got to be willfully blind not to realize this is a development year.
Our gun full forward is 19yo and has 3 games under his belt.
Our back line without Carlisle is still in nappies.
Our best talent in Clark is 21yo, Coff and Bytel are 20yo, and Byrnes is 18.
And the mature recruits were brought in because there was a recognized hole in the list because Trout couldn't draft and Richo couldn't develop.

Anyone who believes we're chasing a premiership this year is outright delusional.
And you're the one who always says the club and coaches know better, so ergo playing Marshall forward is obviously the correct thing to do, and if you disagree then you must be wrong..

You can still play young players in a year you are trying to win. It’s madness to suggest otherwise. Our backline isn’t that young. Wb were probably younger than us the year they won the flag. It’s a cop out for those who think richo was the problem and rats is the master. And it’s not a flag or a development year. That’s another cop out. And you name 4 players. 2 have been in the system 3 years and the other 2 haven’t even played a game. As for Marshall playing forward and ruck well that’s what the coach thinks is best for us to win games. It isn’t because it’s a development year. I thought you would have better points than that to prove it’s a development year.

 

[kernelT]

If we didn’t expect to improve on our nine wins last year by brining in Hill, Howard, Jones, Butler, Ryder and Hannebery, then we’re wasting our time and draft picks.

 

[pebblesofsand]

No one suggested he was playing as a midfielder did they?

What post are you referring to? It would help if you could quote the post so we know what you are talking about.

I thought the statement was pretty obvious to any poster who referred to him as a midfielder.