Preview Round 22, 2023: St.Kilda v Richmond - Marvel Stadium, Sunday 13th August, 3:20PM AEST *MADDIE'S MATCH*

[Diehard Saint]

Hopefully very little but unless they weren't watching you could see exactly how poorly the team and footy department were performing. They are responsible for spending and appointments. It was run like an amateurs club where as long as you turned up you had a job for life. Bassat talks the right talk but having Lethlean promoted was a weird one and he did sign up Ratts and was about to appoint Rath and Lethlean to run the whole show. If we'd won one more game last year we may have still had Ratts, Lethlean and Rath running another completely unaccountable footy department.

The whole bottles of red barefoot to court Lyon like he was a younger attractive woman that he was trying to seduce with his money was cringe. Especially when Lethlean turned up in his 2001 model Mazda like a homeless man. Appointing old boys over industry best is still yet to show that it was best policy but I'll give him time on that. Losing Walsh for Sos and Gubby also looks a bit of a stuff up.

We are run a lot better but I'm going to keep the campaigners honest because they've done nothing to suggest they are a well run operation yet despite some improvements.

Great answer thanks.
Perhaps the Walsh thing was unavoidable though - personal
issue wasn’t it?

Having said that, wasn’t it KB who said lying is the first language of the AFL, so who knows.

My family have read The Boys Club book by Michael Warner and have said it’s a real eye opener.

 

[Diehard Saint]

Actually Lethlean who was in the FD at the time overruled Libba to get King over Rozee. I think we had a bit of a weird power structure going on where there were plenty of egos getting in the way of people doing their jobs. That's why getting Lethelan away from the chooks was a good move.

Lethers is a whole ‘nother issue and we have Gill and his afl mates to thank for that. Hopefully out of harms way now.

 

[Tommy Wigs]

Clark did * his knee a few weeks back remember.
But that is in no way an excuse for the lack of a tank at this point in his career.

If we dumped Clark this off season would you really be concerned? I mean, really?

Bottom line is that he is an underperforming list clogger that is a reasonable player, but just at gop levels of averageness.

One more preseason away? Nah he's done. He has an excellent pair of hands and is a one touch player. But after watching his entire career, he is one of those guys that really looks like the effort is just not to the level. It would probably take shipping him off somewhere for an abhorrent second round pick or something to create that lightbulb moment for him to realise just how close to the fringe he is.

Gresham is the same. Just too many flaws.

For whatever reason, be it the procession of s**t coaches, s**t environments and s**t culture across their careers, they have just not been able to take that next step.

These blokes are stamping their own papers. Maybe they just want to gtfo.

Either way, we need to stop hitching our wagons to these blokes that just cant get it done.

Yeah it’s an interesting discussion and good points. Agree on Gresham. For Clark, my natural inclination is that both he and us (development) just have to get better. Stop squibbing and taking the easy option of trading for not much. But then on the other side - looks like Ross is aiming to get rid of those below standards and that makes a whole lot of sense (regardless of getting not much back). The club will know if he has it in him to increase his standards I suppose, so that will be the answer!

 

[gringo2011]

Yeah it’s an interesting discussion and good points. Agree on Gresham. For Clark, my natural inclination is that both he and us (development) just have to get better. Stop squibbing and taking the easy option of trading for not much. But then on the other side - looks like Ross is aiming to get rid of those below standards and that makes a whole lot of sense (regardless of getting not much back). The club will know if he has it in him to increase his standards I suppose, so that will be the answer!

I think we were looking at unloading Gresham and Hunts before Lyon turned up. That seemed to be in Lethlean's plan to dispose of players that had value to get back into the draft. Gresham and Clark were identified early on. There were rumours of Gresham being available last year before we had him up for FA in 2023.

To me unless mid 20s guys are too expensive, poor influences or under performers that is the group that we should try to hold together. Playing games together and continuity is a huge advantage and they'll be the guys in their late 20s when we are in challenge mode.

If we cull them we have to replace them and we haven't found that easy so far and it usually costs us a lot more to replace our GOPs with similar GOPs.

 

[StFly]

Not really, they didn't have breaks in drafting and trading. We fell off a bit of a cliff because we failed to draft well in Lyon's first innings. Really after 2003 we stopped drafting at anything like an industry standard so we had to ground up rebuild but chose to pretend we were still in challenge mode and Pelican made some of the dumbest moves in history. Then Trout came in and got nearly every pick wrong. Add some bad luck with injury, poor footy department spend which didn't have quality development or skills staff and poor list management and that's how you * up a rebuild.

The Sexton stink, there's a reason why he was a line coach under Lyon and during our "we have NFI what we're doing here, weeee spinny chairs" departmental woes later, that man was filling all major roles in department before Lethers came in all 'WTF is going on here, get me Rath & a banker". How does a developmental guy end up as director of coaching and head of football in a competent football department?

I'll note soon as we kicked him he vanished from AFL circles, no one sought his services that he's now at Maribyrnong Sports Academy as opposed to Rath who's at the ARL for example, hell, even Ameet got to the Dogs to help engineer a flag.

He's the reason I give the Cho an out for his coaching, Sexton was just that bad at everything above developmental head that he held like 8 titles across 3 years? or something stupid like that. He was like a mini GT that had accomplished SFA.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

The Sexton stink, there's a reason why he was a line coach under Lyon and during our "we have NFI what we're doing here, weeee spinny chairs" departmental woes later, that man was filling all major roles in department before Lethers came in all 'WTF is going on here, get me Rath & a banker". How does a developmental guy end up as director of coaching and head of football in a competent football department?

I'll note soon as we kicked him he vanished from AFL circles, no one sought his services that he's now at Maribyrnong Sports Academy as opposed to Rath who's at the ARL for example, hell, even Ameet got to the Dogs to help engineer a flag.

He's the reason I give the Cho an out for his coaching, Sexton was just that bad at everything above developmental head that he held like 8 titles across 3 years? or something stupid like that. He was like a mini GT that had accomplished SFA.

I'm surprised you thought he was good at development.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I think we were looking at unloading Gresham and Hunts before Lyon turned up. That seemed to be in Lethlean's plan to dispose of players that had value to get back into the draft. Gresham and Clark were identified early on. There were rumours of Gresham being available last year before we had him up for FA in 2023.

To me unless mid 20s guys are too expensive, poor influences or under performers that is the group that we should try to hold together. Playing games together and continuity is a huge advantage and they'll be the guys in their late 20s when we are in challenge mode.

If we cull them we have to replace them and we haven't found that easy so far and it usually costs us a lot more to replace our GOPs with similar GOPs.

I figure you need to evaluate the players based on "Performance Now" and "Chance of Future Potential".
When you draft a young one, its almost all "Future".
The longer you keep them the more "Now" and the less "Future".
Right now the likes of Gresham and Clark are pretty close to all "Now".

If you got a first round draft pick for either, you'd have to think that the "Chance of Future" potential of the pick, is more than the "Now" for either of those guys.

The ones you delist first are low future, low now. ( Connolly ).
By the time you get to the later delisting's , you're comparing 4th round draft picks or rookie picks. ( Low potential, low now , you mean...there's a chance ?). Not sure i'd delist Clark for one of those.
I know some people get frustrated and just want them gone, but its not always the best choice.

 

[malevu]

Looking at the remaining rounds the top 4 should be set although not necessarily in the current order. Carlton and the Dogs should do enough to qualify so that will leave two spots up for grabs, out of us, Giants, Cats, Adelaide, Swans and Essendon.

Out fate is in our own hands, especially with the next two at Marvel. Obviously it will help our cause if the other five drop games and don't cause any upsets. So pretty much I'll be barracking for the those teams to lose no matter who they'll be playing. When they play one another a mixture of results can work in our favor.

Given the right combo of results we could make it with only 12 wins but don't hold your breath.

 

[StFly]

I'm surprised you thought he was good at development.

Development: 06-09 (oh, hey there others driving and 2x GF appearances from GT's prelim days)
Interim of Oppo like Joey here.
Line coaching: '10-14 (oh, hey there mad decline in anything on field standard wise across defense, midfield and team, Kingsley was in forwards across this time)
Governance, director of coaching: '14-19 ("Hi Cho & Ratts, I drew a pony!")
Governance, head of football: '19-21 (Lethers, Rath and co: "Hey Sexton, about your contract...")
Maribyrnong: '22-current (As our volunteer budget got capped, we'd like to welcome Danny Sexton into the fold to...)

 

[stfan]

I know for a fact that if we had not taken Billings @3, the Dogs would have.
Obviously Bont is better but I give the recruiters, at the time, some slack on that.

Paddy over Petracca was inexcusable on the night and still is.


On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

Yes agree.. You can only go by what was known at the time.

Billings was a fair enough pick.

Picking Paddy was a major stuff up.

 

[stfan]

Actually Lethlean who was in the FD at the time overruled Libba to get King over Rozee.

Yes I heard that at the time too.

I think we had a bit of a weird power structure going on where there were plenty of egos getting in the way of people doing their jobs. That's why getting Lethelan away from the chooks was a good move.

Having non football people having the main say in football matters in firstly Bains, and then Lethlean is a key reason why our drafting/trading was so poor for a decade.

 

[Joffaboy]

It was well known long before the night. So your talking crap.

Ok champ, you always know best

On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[PoppedCorn]

So
Yeah, the game

Go team!

 

[Tommy Wigs]

It was well known long before the night. So your talking crap.

That tool Sam Mclure started reporting the Paddy decision the afternoon before the draft if I recall. I was in shock.

 

[Sully111]

Gresham only plays bursts there at the moment too but I think we probably like having rotations that can impact then go back and impact another position. I think Gresham has actually been okay recently, he's definitely not as much of a problem as he was in the middle of the season.

Give me Owens in the guts all day every day.

He's played one game where he was started there. He should have been playing there months ago. It's poor selection/coaching from RTB and co

Gresham has been woeful. I don't care if they're trying to increase what we get for him. Are we trying to make finals or not. Played ok when he was sub but was sh*t again last week.

I don't go into deep analytical mode about everything. Sometimes sh*t is simple. Owens is a midfield bull waiting to happen. Gresham can't kick, and when I see him giving direction to the younger players I throw up in my mouth a bit. He should have been dropped ages ago.

 

[saintvic]

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/2023-trade-and-list-management-thread.1343726/post-80543317
**I have a ticket question

My daughter and I have 2 reserved tickets, she can’t go tomorrow so transferred the ticket for me to give to someone else.
The ticket has transferred to my saint’s membership app but there’s no bar code on it and no way to transfer it to my wallet app.
Is this usual??

This boomer would appreciate some help please

 

[Diehard Saint]

List Mgmt. - 2023 Trade and List Management Thread
**I have a ticket question

My daughter and I have 2 reserved tickets, she can’t go tomorrow so transferred the ticket for me to give to someone else.
The ticket has transferred to my saint’s membership app but there’s no bar code on it and no way to transfer it to my wallet app.
Is this usual??

This boomer would appreciate some help please

Tell her to send it you as a photo? I’ve done that before. Just scan it off the photo.

 

[saintvic]

Tell her to send it you as a photo? I’ve done that before. Just scan it off the photo.

It’s too late for that now unfortunately, it has disappeared from her app

 

[MrFoster]

1. I maintain we focus too much on playing an unsustainable pressure and effort game which makes us look a million bucks when it comes off but leaves us cooked both in the short term (rest of the game) and in the long term (cooked in the following weeks). Can’t rely on 150% effort to win games. It’s not local level where the standard is so low that being somewhat professional puts you above everyone automatically, they’re professional athletes against professional athletes, the fitness and standards are fairly similar so you just burn through your tickets faster. Need to have a solid skill based game plan that results in high percentage scoring opportunities and leave manic pressure as a break in case of emergency.

2. All the old farts in the crowd screaming “just kick the ball” are getting what they want. Bombing it long.

This is what’s been taught to the playing group for the last 10 years unfortunately. When the talent and skill are lacking, the short term solution employed by Richo/Ratts to keep being competitive is instilling an effort based and flooding system. It’s not sustainable, and extremely short sighted. Rather play like Hawthorn and train the team to play the right way/an exciting brand of football.

 

[BrutThough]

**I have a ticket question

My daughter and I have 2 reserved tickets, she can’t go tomorrow so transferred the ticket for me to give to someone else.
The ticket has transferred to my saint’s membership app but there’s no bar code on it and no way to transfer it to my wallet app.
Is this usual??

This boomer would appreciate some help please

Clubs just put this on Facebook. Hopefully they've fixed your issue.

 

[stfan]

hell, even Ameet got to the Dogs to help engineer a flag.

.

Are you a Bain's disciple?

He joined the Dog's to be their CEO in 2018. They won their flag in 2016!

The only way he helped engineer a flag at the Dogs in 2016 was by weakening our list.


The Western Bulldogs Football Club is delighted to announce that St Kilda Football Club Chief Operating Officer and General Counsel Ameet Bains will be succeeding Gary Kent as the Club’s new CEO for season 2018.

The Club expects Bains to start his new position in December, subject to completing certain duties with St. Kilda.

Bains has a Bachelor of Laws (Honours) from Monash University as well as a Bachelor of Business (Banking & Finance).

He worked for five years as a Lawyer at leading law firm Minter Ellison and also worked as Head of the Legal Department at Toyota Australia.

Bains joined the St Kilda Football Club in January 2011 as the club’s GM of Player List and Legal Affairs, and has subsequently progressed to his current role there as Chief Operating Officer and General Counsel.

St Kilda appointed Bains in Jan 2011, and then he was part of the cohort that brought in Pelchen in July 2011. These two "masterminds" combined to fffff up our list.

 

[Ephemeral Hope]

This is what’s been taught to the playing group for the last 10 years unfortunately. When the talent and skill are lacking, the short term solution employed by Richo/Ratts to keep being competitive is instilling an effort based and flooding system. It’s not sustainable, and extremely short sighted. Rather play like Hawthorn and train the team to play the right way/an exciting brand of football.

Whats worse is we glorify it. We play the unsustainable brand then shout about SAINTS FOOTY

 

[MOLTEN GANGLANDS]

Are you a Bain's disciple?

He joined the Dog's to be their CEO in 2018. They won their flag in 2016!

The only way he helped engineer a flag at the Dogs in 2016 was by weakening our list.


The Western Bulldogs Football Club is delighted to announce that St Kilda Football Club Chief Operating Officer and General Counsel Ameet Bains will be succeeding Gary Kent as the Club’s new CEO for season 2018.

The Club expects Bains to start his new position in December, subject to completing certain duties with St. Kilda.

Bains has a Bachelor of Laws (Honours) from Monash University as well as a Bachelor of Business (Banking & Finance).

He worked for five years as a Lawyer at leading law firm Minter Ellison and also worked as Head of the Legal Department at Toyota Australia.

Bains joined the St Kilda Football Club in January 2011 as the club’s GM of Player List and Legal Affairs, and has subsequently progressed to his current role there as Chief Operating Officer and General Counsel.

St Kilda appointed Bains in Jan 2011, and then he was part of the cohort that brought in Pelchen in July 2011. These two "masterminds" combined to fffff up our list.

yeah well.. that's just like, your opinion man

 

[StFly]

Are you a Bain's disciple?

He joined the Dog's to be their CEO in 2018. They won their flag in 2016!

The only way he helped engineer a flag at the Dogs in 2016 was by weakening our list.


The Western Bulldogs Football Club is delighted to announce that St Kilda Football Club Chief Operating Officer and General Counsel Ameet Bains will be succeeding Gary Kent as the Club’s new CEO for season 2018.

The Club expects Bains to start his new position in December, subject to completing certain duties with St. Kilda.

Bains has a Bachelor of Laws (Honours) from Monash University as well as a Bachelor of Business (Banking & Finance).

He worked for five years as a Lawyer at leading law firm Minter Ellison and also worked as Head of the Legal Department at Toyota Australia.

Bains joined the St Kilda Football Club in January 2011 as the club’s GM of Player List and Legal Affairs, and has subsequently progressed to his current role there as Chief Operating Officer and General Counsel.

St Kilda appointed Bains in Jan 2011, and then he was part of the cohort that brought in Pelchen in July 2011. These two "masterminds" combined to fffff up our list.

Nah Danny, but I can understand how you might latch onto the flippant comment to make yourself look slightly more desperate though. Do have to tell you to update your linkedin as you haven't touched it in 4 years people might think you still have stable employment in a professional sense. Wouldn't want to be telling porkies to your next employer.

So yeah, whoopsie, my bad, to misremembering which year he flipped in relation to the Doggies when pot shotting Sexton, will remember to check literally everything associated next time instead of shooting from hip flippantly on flippant so we shant have a repeat.

 

[saintvic]

Clubs just put this on Facebook. Hopefully they've fixed your issue.

View attachment 1772254

Thanks so much, it’s working now