Autopsy Round 22, 2023: St.Kilda v Richmond *MADDIE'S MATCH*

[Grav]

The only issue, entirely related to him being 18 years old, is he's usually only good for the first half at the moment. He'll be tearing games apart in 2-3 years.

Also we have to remember he just scraped into 2022 draft by a few days. Born 27th December with the cut off date being 31st December, probably the youngest in that draft.

 

[stfan]

Watching the game live on Sunday from the top level of Marvel was a really eye opening experience and I would say its probably the best structure we have presented all year.

Yes I just watched the replay this afternoon and was struck by how much better we were set up, how quickly we tried to move the ball on and that we did not just bomb it to King, but very much kept looking for the best forward option.

Now how much is because our players acted on their "homework", and how much due to playing an out of form opponent, we will find out next week against the Cats. Having said that we have so far this year not set up and played well against the weakest teams.


On forward options, it also really helped that Membrey had the smarts to in the main keep separation from Max which meant Max also had less defenders to battle.

 

[PostmanBish]

I would encourage anyone who thinks Max didn't deserve those free kicks to sit behind the goals on level 2 or 3 and pay attention to just how much illegal off the ball work is put into him by every defence he comes up against every week.
With the introduction of the 4th umpire this year I thought maybe he'd get a clearer run at it but it doesn't seem to be the case.

Roid him up over the offseason, shave his head, and lock him in a room with Barry Hall and G-Train "angry" videos ...

... then either the umps can fix it, or Max will finish it.

 

[stfan]

Does anyone think he may be under instructions to not risk his shoulder in tackles etc, save it for marks and goals?

King's career average is 0.9 tackles per game. He had 1 tackle this week, and 1 last week.

 

[bergholt]

9 Jack Sinclair (STK)
8 Rowan Marshall (STK)
4 Sebastian Ross (STK)
3 Jade Gresham (STK)
3 Max King (STK)
2 Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera (STK)
1 Callum Wilkie (STK)

AFLCA Champion Player of the Year - AFL Coaches Association Awards - AFL Coaches Association

aflcoaches.com.au

Totals now

65+: Sinclair (67 votes from 12 games voted in)
60+:
55+:
50+:
45+: Marshall (45 from 8), Wilkie (45 from 10)
40+:
35+:
30+:
25+: Owens (25 from 5)
20+: Wanganeen-Milera (21 from 5), Wood (20 from 5)
15+: Crouch (16 from 5), Steele (15 from 6)
10+: Higgins (10 from 2)
5+: Hill (9 from 3), Ross (6 from 3), King (5 from 3)
1+: Butler (3 from 2), Gresham (3), Battle (2), Phillipou (2), Byrnes (1), Sharman (1)
0: Stocker (20 games played), Howard (18), Caminiti (17), Clark (16), Windhager (16), Webster (14), Paton (12), Cordy (11), Bytel (6), Jones (4), Membrey (5), Billings (3), Peris (1)

 

[PoppedCorn]

The Max King knocking on here is embarrassing. He’s putting together a very strong season for a player that has been smashed by injury.

No one's bashing him that I see
Last week I took the piss and said Max for 2 firsts lets discuss
Then I upped to 3 firsts in the game day
Lol


The only things I can see as being said is sometimes the second effort is not great and I thinkk that's frustration from being scragged left right and centre

I've personally said I wish he would lead more, because he would prob kick 4 to 5 a game nearly every game!

Could easily go close to 80 a season imo if he got on his bike a bit more

 

[gringo2011]

Watching the game live on Sunday from the top level of Marvel was a really eye opening experience and I would say its probably the best structure we have presented all year.

The chaining of possessions was really impressive, sometimes up to 10 movements without disruption. The ball movement was different to what I have seen for a long time. Reminded me of the early days of the first Lyon era.

There are still issues there, but i will say it was a complete pleasure to watch the Saints on Sunday.

Looking forward to the next few weeks.

I reckon we looked great on transition too. Not enough love for what was a very good game against a side that can smash you quickly if you leave the door open.

 

[AirWinmar]

Haven't watched this game yet, but enjoying the comments and looking forward to catchup in the replay later in the week. Might have to get my Richmond mate around

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Yes I just watched the replay this afternoon and was struck by how much better we were set up, how quickly we tried to move the ball on and that we did not just bomb it to King, but very much kept looking for the best forward option.

Now how much is because our players acted on their "homework", and how much due to playing an out of form opponent, we will find out next week against the Cats. Having said that we have so far this year not set up and played well against the weakest teams.


On forward options, it also really helped that Membrey had the smarts to in the main keep separation from Max which meant Max also had less defenders to battle.

I think its generally what they try to do, but if the opposition pressure gets to them its almost panic.
Richmond didn't put the pressure on like some other teams did.

 

[Diehard Saint]

He has kicked 22 from 9 games = 2.4 goals on average. On track for 52 goals this season.

If we remove Melbourne as he only played 40 seconds. That’s 2.75 goals on average.
On track for 60 goals this season.

That is an elite key forward air space.

And he doesn’t get that many from frees. Unlike a certain Blues forward I could name.

 

[tomjoad]

Stocker throwing Dusty around like he was a rag doll was great viewing.
He's got some edge that kid. Great to see. Used it fairly well too I thought.

 

[SaintSlayer]

I’m pleased the coaches select the team rather than the negative contributors on these forums.

 

[tomjoad]

Couple of thoughts

-great bounce back game for the midfield after the 2nd half last week. Rowan was great around the ground, but also hardly lost a contest to a very good and physical ruck Nankervis (and an average ruck in soldo). Seb being back was great, works well as a connector, and has that Clayton Oliver speed where he lopes along, but hardly ever gets run down from behind. I thibk he offers something we havent been able to replace these last couple months.

-forward line in the 1st half was as open as it has been this season, mainly thanks to some slick ball movement, and this lead to lots of advantageous 1 on 1s. We still inexplicably lose the ability to kick when going inside 50 alot of the time, but it meant that Vlastuin didnt absolutely chop us up like last time

-i think we found the right mix of talls, at least for this season. Kingy as spear head, Tim as 2nd banana and coops higher up the ground. I (personally) dont think king played that much better than last week, there was just better ball movement, and he is at this point an opportunist. Tim is seemingly always able to get seperation from his opponenent with his running ability, which means we now have another consistent lead up target besides Higgins. And i can see a future where Cooper becomes like (Adelaide) Tom Lynch, use his height, skill and range to work up the ground to link up as part of a scoring chain. Hes still a long way off of that, but he has the tools

-not much to say about the backline except they are still one of the best in the league. Pleasantly suprised by how well Cordy has meshed

Cordy seems to be a very popular teammate. The boys were all around him after the game and he was clearly cracking them all up. He played a very good game and did some really good things. We looked more complete - for want of a better word - with him playing down back.

 

[NoisyMinor]

I’m pleased the coaches select the team rather than the negative contributors on these forums.

I'm pleased superfans exist, cause I get to piss myself laughing at their self-congratulatory posturing at least once a week.

 

[sammm]

Couple of thoughts

-great bounce back game for the midfield after the 2nd half last week. Rowan was great around the ground, but also hardly lost a contest to a very good and physical ruck Nankervis (and an average ruck in soldo). Seb being back was great, works well as a connector, and has that Clayton Oliver speed where he lopes along, but hardly ever gets run down from behind. I thibk he offers something we havent been able to replace these last couple months.

-forward line in the 1st half was as open as it has been this season, mainly thanks to some slick ball movement, and this lead to lots of advantageous 1 on 1s. We still inexplicably lose the ability to kick when going inside 50 alot of the time, but it meant that Vlastuin didnt absolutely chop us up like last time

-i think we found the right mix of talls, at least for this season. Kingy as spear head, Tim as 2nd banana and coops higher up the ground. I (personally) dont think king played that much better than last week, there was just better ball movement, and he is at this point an opportunist. Tim is seemingly always able to get seperation from his opponenent with his running ability, which means we now have another consistent lead up target besides Higgins. And i can see a future where Cooper becomes like (Adelaide) Tom Lynch, use his height, skill and range to work up the ground to link up as part of a scoring chain. Hes still a long way off of that, but he has the tools

-not much to say about the backline except they are still one of the best in the league. Pleasantly suprised by how well Cordy has meshed

Where does Caminiti fit in then?

 

[puntking]

Where does Caminiti fit in then?

Next year after we trade Membrey

 

[Cleanupsoup]

Where does Caminiti fit in then?

a couple years down the line if he keeps improving

 

[StFly]

Where does Caminiti fit in then?

Membrey/Sharman foil type at present, I'd consider him kinda like Cordy at present for plugging gaps up forward whereas Cordy is the more experienced backman that plugged earlier for that contested bigger body.

Ming was the obvious in when fit as talent, Membrey whilst I disliked the usual synergy with him and the mids, this match was much better so he gets the nod, and a Sharman/Caminiti switch is kinda same same really at present as both have quiet moments and both can be used as dangerous forwards and ruck relief instances, Sharman less so.

 

[hayes]

North and Eagles yes, Hawks no. Hawthorn are 6-5 since Round 10 including victories over 4 of the current top 8 in that time. We are 1-1 against them in that same period. If you started the season at the halfway mark, the Hawks would be playing finals. They are a long way from a bottom four side since the middle of the year. Unfortunately we didn't get to play them in the first two months of the season before they came good.

Thought King was lucky to get 6 yesterday but probably earnt 4 and it was his best performance of the year other than the GWS game where he was excellent. His output looks up on 2022 (small sample size). A full season next year and he's a 60-goal forward no doubt. He's never going to be Nick Riewoldt but he doesn't need to be. Can still be a gun in his own right.

I’m not sure if that’s true. Max should be looking to be just as good as Nick if not better. His physical gifts alone should be enough to get him to that level. The only thing that can stop him is injury or goal kicking but if he keeps kicking like he has this year he’ll probably win the Coleman every year. His second efforts and defensive stuff needs work but what he’s doing at his age with almost no support is seriously impressive.

 

[hayes]

Where does Caminiti fit in then?

Membrey turns 30 next year and Caminiti is still super young and will probably take a long time to be ready. He’ll get his chance.

 

[gringo2011]

I’m not sure if that’s true. Max should be looking to be just as good as Nick if not better. His physical gifts alone should be enough to get him to that level. The only thing that can stop him is injury or goal kicking but if he keeps kicking like he has this year he’ll probably win the Coleman every year. His second efforts and defensive stuff needs work but what he’s doing at his age with almost no support is seriously impressive.

I see him more as Tom Lynch or maybe Tex Walker as the big alpha, stand and deliver forward. Riewoldt was just an outstanding athlete who wore his heart on his sleeve. The impressive part of Rooey was his insane work rate and competitiveness.

 

[Joffaboy]

I see him more as Tom Lynch or maybe Tex Walker as the big alpha, stand and deliver forward. Riewoldt was just an outstanding athlete who wore his heart on his sleeve. The impressive part of Rooey was his insane work rate and competitiveness.

Roo was the ultimate wingman who used his huge aerobic ability, and repeat long leads to perform as a key forward.

On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[bird_man]

No one's bashing him that I see
Last week I took the piss and said Max for 2 firsts lets discuss
Then I upped to 3 firsts in the game day
Lol


The only things I can see as being said is sometimes the second effort is not great and I thinkk that's frustration from being scragged left right and centre

I've personally said I wish he would lead more, because he would prob kick 4 to 5 a game nearly every game!

Could easily go close to 80 a season imo if he got on his bike a bit more

Obviously you thought this was a dig at you some how? I dont think I even saw the post from you suggesting we trade him and if I did I'm sure I would have worked out it was a joke...

But you are wrong about him not being bashed on this forum. There has been plenty of it.

 

[bird_man]

Yep. Ross has about 4 possessions in the first 5 minutes. Nine particularly good. I think I commented love that once he stopped getting the ball we looked much better! This shot you recall was once such possession!

Luckily he improved later…

Ive been disappointed with his output this year but he was very good on the weekend.

Yes he was messy at times but unlike our mids in the 2nd half of last week, he was at least getting his hands on the footy and getting it forward.

 

[PoppedCorn]

Obviously you thought this was a dig at you some how? I dont think I even saw the post from you suggesting we trade him and if I did I'm sure I would have worked out it was a joke...

But you are wrong about him not being bashed on this forum. There has been plenty of it.

Nah no dig birdman
I'm just not seeing huge bashing of Max
I have been here a bit less freq
If you're seeing it then it's happening I guess

I think we should all like to see him get on the bike a bit more then he cant be scragged all afternoon