2020 Trade & List Management discussion

[Betts are off]

Sure good points.
However my view is in the current environment Brad isnt getting a huge contract because of financial constraints clubs now face.....he's missed that boat.
What we do have some understanding around is that there seems to be some correlation to contract size and length....and age.
The other unknown is if the AFL will change the draft order because of a compromised season and also add their formula is pretty much a secret and they could make changes on the fly and we'd have no transparency on how or why.

So agree its difficult to be definative one way or the other but my opinion is there are more grey areas that tend to lean towards not getting pick 2.

Also should take into account the compromised draft, and the benefit of a known quantity in a season like this.

We all think it will trend towards conservatism at the trade and FA table. But it may go the complete opposite direction, with clubs favoring and fighting hard for known players like Brad Crouch, rather then kids they've barely seen play since they were 16 in a year where a pick in the low teens could get pushed out to the early twenties.

Lots to play out yet. I for 1 am gonna do some real string fence sitting on this topic!

 

[Big Gazoongas]

Also should take into account the compromised draft, and the benefit of a known quantity in a season like this.

We all think it will trend towards conservatism at the trade and FA table. But it may go the complete opposite direction, with clubs favoring and fighting hard for known players like Brad Crouch, rather then kids they've barely seen play since they were 16 in a year where a pick in the low teens could get pushed out to the early twenties.

Lots to play out yet. I for 1 am gonna do some real string fence sitting on this topic!

Fair comments.
Does a Brad outweigh a kid that hasn't played for a while....interesting.
I think there is certainly a risk both ways.

You're probably the wise one sitting on the fence.

 

[Mego Red]

At which point the AFL steps in, says "that's the SECOND time you've been caught draft-tampering - we'll take those, thanks *yoink*" and we wave goodbye to picks 1, 2, 8, 11, and 20 as well as next year's 1st and 2nd rounders.

LOL - I'm sure we promised them we wouldn't bid on Green last year. It's hardly something you'd advertise, but it also would go on constantly.

 

[Jarman3]

LOL - I'm sure we promised them we wouldn't bid on Green last year. It's hardly something you'd advertise, but it also would go on constantly.

After the endless steam of embarrassing f*ckups we've been part of since the Tippett saga, we really can't afford to go anywhere near something like this, even if it's in an informal, off-the-record way. If there's a player that is clearly the best on offer in the draft, and we don't even try to take him with pick 1 OR 2, I'm sure that would be raising a few red flags about the place, especially if it's coming on the back of a cosy-looking trade.

 

[Mego Red]

After the endless steam of embarrassing f*ckups we've been part of since the Tippett saga, we really can't afford to go anywhere near something like this, even if it's in an informal, off-the-record way. If there's a player that is clearly the best on offer in the draft, and we don't even try to take him with pick 1 OR 2, I'm sure that would be raising a few red flags about the place, especially if it's coming on the back of a cosy-looking trade.

What about all those clubs that didn't bid on Green last year?

Are you suggesting the AFL should step in if draft selections don't go as they expect?

The AFL can't compel you to draft someone. And I don't see how they can stop you from confidentially discussing your intentions.

 

[kulak]

It isn't just fans fantasy thinking we could get pick 2, Cal Twomey said would expect it on the AFL podcast. Is he worth it no, but nor was Frawley pick 3.

The AFL changed the rules after Frawley!

Would people please stop spreading this, thanks.

 

[Jarman3]

What about all those clubs that didn't bid on Green last year?

Are you suggesting the AFL should step in if draft selections don't go as they expect?

The AFL can't compel you to draft someone. And I don't see how they can stop you from confidentially discussing your intentions.

Green was never in the conversation for pick 1.

The Crows confidentially discussed an intention to trade Kurt Tippet for a 2nd round pick at the end of his contract. How did that turn out?

 

[MRB37]

Supposedly looking at Mitch Crowden from the Dockers. Can't get a game ahead of Brayshaw and Cerra, SA lad, was a 4th round pick for the Dockers in 2017, played about a dozen games for them since.

 

[Scorpus]

Supposedly looking at Mitch Crowden from the Dockers. Can't get a game ahead of Brayshaw and Cerra, SA lad, was a 4th round pick for the Dockers in 2017, played about a dozen games for them since.

He can't get a game ahead of Brayshaw and Cerra because they're much better players.

As a 175cm midfielder I'm not sure that's a type we need, unless we think we can convert him into a small forward, which is a bad idea (just draft/trade in a genuine forward)

 

[ams4crows]

I absolutely would trade Laird for Caldwell and if they want to throw in O'Halloran too I would drive Laird to the airport.

 

[Golumless]

Supposedly looking at Mitch Crowden from the Dockers. Can't get a game ahead of Brayshaw and Cerra, SA lad, was a 4th round pick for the Dockers in 2017, played about a dozen games for them since.

From a quick squizz of the Freo board, he sounds like a small forward/mid who is damn quick.

Lachie Murphy might find himself in real trouble, though my entire answer why not if he is cheap?

 

[Jarman3]

From a quick squizz of the Freo board, he sounds like a small forward/mid who is damn quick.

Lachie Murphy might find himself in real trouble, though my entire answer why not if he is cheap?

That's the same question that produces the likes of Crocker, Keays and Frampton. I would like us to be more ambitious than that. Although the last time we were ambitious we got Gibbs, so don't listen to me.

 

[Golumless]

That's the same question that produces the likes of Crocker, Keays and Frampton. I would like us to be more ambitious than that. Although the last time we were ambitious we got Gibbs, so don't listen to me.

I'm not worried about being too ambitious this year with targets. Probably the Hately level of 1st round talent who hasn't become best 22 is really the most balls to the wall type I would be targeting. I'm also not against it on a practical standpoint, seeing we will be adding 5, or maybe 6 18-year-olds (depending on a certain FA eligible player). Gives us the option to cut a bit deeper, especially if we're gunning for more specialised roles.

Relative to their pick position, we've got more out of Crocker, Keays and Frampton then we would have from the average 4th rounder or a rookie pick, though, that's not the most comforting statement.

 

[1990crow]

Supposedly looking at Mitch Crowden from the Dockers. Can't get a game ahead of Brayshaw and Cerra, SA lad, was a 4th round pick for the Dockers in 2017, played about a dozen games for them since.

Meh.

 

[Sanders]

What has Hately shown or done to be such a priority?

 

[Golumless]

What has Hately shown or done to be such a priority?

1st round pick from what was a very strong draft who has managed to get the occasional game in the past two years at GWS. So the talent is there to at least be a regular, though the main thing on my end is Hately ends up filling an area of dire need at the moment, seeing our inside midfield as a whole has fallen off a cliff. SA boy helps as well, though that's just more good story then relevant.

Plus, it should be doable without a 1st round pick, and personally, I'm rather loathed to give up 1st round picks at the moment.

 

[Mutineer]

Meh.

He does have one pretty special attribute an accurate and very penetrating kick....

 

[Scorpus]

If we're going to be successful at the rebuild, we need to be targeting out of favor first round type talents and using late picks to get them. Think us getting Tom Lynch, North getting Aidan Bonar or Brisbane getting Callum Ah Chee

Here are some possible targets:

GWS - Xavier O'Halloran (pick 22)
Gold Coast - Will Brodie (pick 9)
Carlton - Lochie O'Brien (pick 10)
Brisbane - Alex Witherden (pick 23) - wouldn't be cheap
Western Bulldogs - Ed Richards (pick 16) - wouldn't be cheap
Gold Coast - Brayden Fiorini (pick 20)
Melbourne - Sam Weideman (pick 9)

When looking at our list there are also a few positions we really need to add talent to, hopefully for a reasonable price:

Small forwards. Can we pry out a speedy small with goal sense and x-factor? Ian Hill? Jarrod Cameron? Charlie Spargo?

Ruck. We clearly need an additional experienced backup ruck. Maybe a Nathan Vardy or Ben McEvoy type.

Depth KPPs. If we move on Hartigan and Himmelberg our KPPs are paper thin (essentially it's Frampton, Butts and Worrell of those not regularly getting a game). Do we try get Peter Wright on the cheap? Rory Thompson? Lewis Melican? Patrick Ambrose?

We need a huge list turnover in the next few years (I'd consider moving on up to 20 players on our current list), so we're going to need to pull these moves

 

[Mego Red]

Green was never in the conversation for pick 1.

The Crows confidentially discussed an intention to trade Kurt Tippet for a 2nd round pick at the end of his contract. How did that turn out?

Green was an absolute definitive top three pick.

The Crows discussed Tippett to the players management as a way to coerce him to sign, and the Crows put it in writing.

That is extraordinarily different to saying "well, if we traded our seconds for a first, I think it shifts our drafting strategy towards ruck and mids at the top and a tall forward later."

I'm sure the understanding that we wouldn't bid on Green came with our GWS trade last year.

 

[Jarman3]

Green was an absolute definitive top three pick.

The Crows discussed Tippett to the players management as a way to coerce him to sign, and the Crows put it in writing.

That is extraordinarily different to saying "well, if we traded our seconds for a first, I think it shifts our drafting strategy towards ruck and mids at the top and a tall forward later."

I'm sure the understanding that we wouldn't bid on Green came with our GWS trade last year.

With our history of disasters over the past decade, we can't even afford to give the perception of any kind of dodgy dealings going on. Our list is an absolute mess - we honestly cannot afford to run the risk of any kind of draft penalties given the state of our list and our current position on the ladder. Even if there's just a 1% chance, when you look at what's at stake it's not worth that risk. The management of this club have f*cked up over and over again - would you really trust them to be able to pull off something like this? The way we operate, we'd probably have John Reid give Roo a call to update him on the negotiations right as Gil McLachlan happened to walk past and heard it all. Hell, Reid would probably do it by email and accidentally send it to his entire contact list.

Honestly, our management is not nearly smart enough or skilled enough to be able to engage in something like this without f*cking it up, and with our likely draft hand the cost of f*cking it up is too great. We'll already have a good position, and I'm all for improving that position further if we can do so, but it needs to be 100% completely above board. We have to play the straightest bat possible.

 

[DJ75]

With our history of disasters over the past decade, we can't even afford to give the perception of any kind of dodgy dealings going on. Our list is an absolute mess - we honestly cannot afford to run the risk of any kind of draft penalties given the state of our list and our current position on the ladder. Even if there's just a 1% chance, when you look at what's at stake it's not worth that risk. The management of this club have f*cked up over and over again - would you really trust them to be able to pull off something like this? The way we operate, we'd probably have John Reid give Roo a call to update him on the negotiations right as Gil McLachlan happened to walk past and heard it all. Hell, Reid would probably do it by email and accidentally send it to his entire contact list.

Honestly, our management is not nearly smart enough or skilled enough to be able to engage in something like this without f*cking it up, and with our likely draft hand the cost of f*cking it up is too great. We'll already have a good position, and I'm all for improving that position further if we can do so, but it needs to be 100% completely above board. We have to play the straightest bat possible.

This is one of the things that made me laugh when Port people started insinuating that the Crows were behind the reporter going to Wines house and getting him suspended. Bottom line is, even if we thought of it, there is no way in hell our admin could pull that off. We couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery without stuffing it up.

 

[Trigger13]

Can someone tell me why Hately is a genuine option for us? Is it the Nicks connection? Does he hate being at a club in a premiership window? Or is he keen to play for a basket case? Why the obsession with him? Because he’s from SA? Don’t quite get it. He’s a decent footballer. But has no standout weapons.

 

[Betts are off]

What has Hately shown or done to be such a priority?

I think Hately is a curious case. He hasn't played a huge amount of games, but he is a member of probably the most highly drafted midfield room ever assembled, so not breaking into that rotation shouldn't be used as a detractor IMO.

He started off the season last year amassing above 20 touches in his first 2 games, and did really nothing wrong to get dropped. From memory they just had blokes above him on the pecking order come back into the side. His return wasn't until week 15 and he was less impactful. Probably a bit of long season fatigue in the rookie could have contributed. Perhaps was the roll he was asked to play when he returned to the side. I really don't know.

This season he didn't play round 1 or 2, but came in and amassed 21 touches against the dogs and by all reports looked pretty good, but followed it up with a poor output on a wet night against the Pies.

If he was at our club and his stats for his first 2 seasons were the exact same, i'd be completely happy with how he's coming along.

Trading him in, I'm all for it, but I think we need to look to be creative, rather then just throwing a godfather offer at GWS.

 

[Jarman3]

Can someone tell me why Hately is a genuine option for us? Is it the Nicks connection? Does he hate being at a club in a premiership window? Or is he keen to play for a basket case? Why the obsession with him? Because he’s from SA? Don’t quite get it. He’s a decent footballer. But has no standout weapons.

I think it's more about opportunity. He's been in and out of the side at GWS who have a stacked midfield, while he would be a walk up start for us just because our midfield is so bad. Plus GWS have a much tighter salary cap squeeze than us, so we could afford to pay him more. I'm not opposed to bringing him in if we can get a bargain, but I wouldn't be expecting him to be the silver bullet for our midfield woes, that's for sure.

 

[Betts are off]

Can someone tell me why Hately is a genuine option for us? Is it the Nicks connection? Does he hate being at a club in a premiership window? Or is he keen to play for a basket case? Why the obsession with him? Because he’s from SA? Don’t quite get it. He’s a decent footballer. But has no standout weapons.

Midfielder in a rotation that includes Kelly, Taranto, Greene, Green, Coniglio, Caldwell, De Boer, Hopper, O'Hallaran, Perryman, Ward, and Whitfield

He's a talented player, but that is a hell of a lot of proved or highly drafted talent to push his way past for opportunity. Plus GWS has to figure out a way to pay all those guys at some point too!