VFL 2021

[Who are ya]

Northcote Park and Northcote VFA are not the some club and never have been. Only similarity is that Northcote Park now play and train at the old Northcote association oval.

Also if I’m not mistaken Geelong West merged with St. Peter’s in Geelong?

There you go, didn’t know that about Northcote I just assumed it was the same club. And yeah West merged with St Peters nearly as soon as they left the VFA I think. Now called Geelong West Giants

 

[footyfan1978]

i must have bumped entre before i finished it was meant to say I read AFL were going to pay the travel now cant find where i read it lol

I don't think anything has truly been worked out yet.
The only direction there is when you think about it, is to scrap the NEAFL and try to get the Victoria second tier and eastern states second tier going in same direction. but what actual clubs will be, what travels will be and what levels or conferences might have to be made, is totally up in the air. It is s total mess at the minute. Nothing has any certainty apart from NEAFL is gone.

 

[Rickee]

It’s not nonsensical, as it would secure the VFL and it’s clubs in the longer term - as an important part of the football environment in Melbourne, at the premier level below the AFL, rather than the uncertainty that has existed for the last 20 years now.

The part that is nonsensical is offering clubs the identity that they have already carried for 100+ years (Port and Williamstown in particular are decades older than several Melbourne based clubs) as if it's some sort of great gift. It honestly is emblematic of the way AFL fans treat the old VFA clubs, as if they're replaceable or ephemeral. These clubs are valuable and important to the fabric of our game, and if the AFL won't ensure our independence, maybe another league will.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

The part that is nonsensical is offering clubs the identity that they have already carried for 100+ years (Port and Williamstown in particular are decades older than several Melbourne based clubs) as if it's some sort of great gift. It honestly is emblematic of the way AFL fans treat the old VFA clubs, as if they're replaceable or ephemeral. These clubs are valuable and important to the fabric of our game, and if the AFL won't ensure our independence, maybe another league will.

I’m not just an AFL fan and I’m well aware of their standing.

You’ve summed it up in one word - ‘maybe’.

The VFL clubs as a group (and I mean the real VFL clubs, not AFL reserves) have not had a secure and certain long term future for many, many years. Decades in fact.

They’re down to very few in number - the vast majority have disappeared - and the “league” - which is largely just a reserves league now - is constantly tossed around and compromised. Some of the AFL clubs don’t even want it called the VFL now, it might be the EAFL or something daft. Knowing the AFL, that’ll happen.

It was just one idea to give the clubs some long term security and lock in their futures. If the trade off is 10 AFL players in the team each week, it might not be the worst outcome. In fact I can think of some much worse.

Other options are not a foregone conclusion. I’m involved in suburban footy and it’s bloody tough. There’s a shitload of clubs close by in most areas and not many would be licking their lips at the prospect of a relative giant showing up and wanting in. Ask Frankston what the response was when they made tentative contact with the MPNFL after losing their spot in the VFL. It was short and sweet.

I was running things the VFL would be a metro premier league and it’s future health would be assured by promotion and relegation. But like most with most things, the VFL is wedged - other leagues don’t want that.

 

[Rickee]

I’m not just an AFL fan and I’m well aware of their standing.

You’ve summed it up in one word - ‘maybe’.

The VFL clubs as a group (and I mean the real VFL clubs, not AFL reserves) have not had a secure and certain long term future for many, many years. Decades in fact.

They’re down to very few in number - the vast majority have disappeared - and the “league” - which is largely just a reserves league now - is constantly tossed around and compromised. Some of the AFL clubs don’t even want it called the VFL now, it might be the EAFL or something daft. Knowing the AFL, that’ll happen.

It was just one idea to give the clubs some long term security and lock in their futures. If the trade off is 10 AFL players in the team each week, it might not be the worst outcome. In fact I can think of some much worse.

Other options are not a foregone conclusion. I’m involved in suburban footy and it’s bloody tough. There’s a shitload of clubs close by in most areas and not many would be licking their lips at the prospect of a relative giant showing up and wanting in. Ask Frankston what the response was when they made tentative contact with the MPNFL after losing their spot in the VFL. It was short and sweet.

I was running things the VFL would be a metro premier league and it’s future health would be assured by promotion and relegation. But like most with most things, the VFL is wedged - other leagues don’t want that.

Firstly, when fans of the stand alone clubs talk, we talk about the VFA. Most couldn't care less if the VFL name goes, it only came in from 1996.

You suggestion of offering a club like Port it's own identity, that it already has and it fiercely protective of, as an olive branch struck a nerve with me, but it's emblematic of the way the stand alone supporters feel. We don't want AFL clubs swanning in and dictating terms to us, acting like saviours that are doing us a favour by graciously allowing their superstars to take a position off our boys.

I followed the Frankston situation pretty closely, and don't recall them ever applying to the MPFL, from my memory they were only ever going to apply for a VFL licence, it was that or nothing, so I'd love to hear where you got this bit of info from.

I am very confident that if the AFL tries to force Port Melbourne to enter another shotgun marriage with an AFL side who will bring their own coaches and players and ignore our independence that we would be welcomed into a suburban league or even the VAFA. It's not an ideal situation, but the members absolutely will not accept being tied to an AFL team again. I'm not positive that is the way other clubs are going about it, but I'd venture it's not much different.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Victorian football deserves a premier statewide league with clubs that have genuine ties to their community they are based in, not a bastardised AFL development league with no community links at all for most clubs.

Okay, and how will it be funded?

 

[GC2015]

So it seems like Southport are the only non-Victorian standalone team that is really keen on joining this amalgamated league next year. It's good for Gold Coast footy to have two clubs in this league but even I'm willing to admit it seems a little odd. This is probably the closest Southport will ever get to entering the AFL so they aren't going to let this opportunity slip by. I'm sure Southport will also attempt to raid some of the lesser VFL clubs of their talent now that they should be able to offer just as much opportunity to get drafted as any Victorian standalone team as well as the lifestyle factor that comes with living on the GC during the winter months.

 

[Tackle Bag]

Okay, and how will it be funded?

Give control of local senior and junior leagues back to an independent body for a start. Costs of running local level clubs have gone through the roof with the introduction of afl affiliation with basically no additional services provided. Give that affiliation fee money to the new independent body.

A new commission made from representatives of each of the 6 metro leagues along with country regions ensures each local region has a voice and a vote.

There are several local level clubs that are in a much better position financially than some of the remaining stand alone VFL clubs. Invite those that are interested to pitch their case for admission to the new state league.

Restore zones at state level where the local leagues and clubs within these zones feed players to their premier league club.Perhaps not exclusive access but preferred access.
This ensures connection between premier level clubs and local comps and provides incentive to assist with development, something that doesn’t really happen enough now.

Looking at factors including population hubs, participation, local league strength in both talent & finance, local league politics etc, this new Commision selects the best applications from a combination of all VFL stand alone clubs, local Clubs able to step up and new entities to represent certain regions.

We then have a new competition which reflects the modern population spread of Victoria, run by a commission with the best interest of local football at its core. This puts us in a far better position than the current one. Might even get decent crowds back when premier clubs are full of local talent.

Let the AFL fund their own eastern seaboard reserves competition.

Perhaps the current TAC cup structure could be scrapped and an under 18s competition built into this new premier league. There would be savings there in sharing admin, venues, coaches etc.

On a side note, this would also be an opportunity for the local metro leagues to reassess their boundaries and structure. There is definitely some mess to be tidied up there.

Obviously there’s problems amongst all that and it all needs a lot more thought but off the top of my head, that’s a better system than the current one

 

[footyfan1978]

Firstly, when fans of the stand alone clubs talk, we talk about the VFA. Most couldn't care less if the VFL name goes, it only came in from 1996.

It is amazing how some continue to not just get this and still carry on with calling old traditional VFA clubs, VFL clubs when we have a chance to re-set things up clean for rest of this decade. Just shows identity is something some do not really get that throw the term around loosely.

 

[footyfan1978]

So it seems like Southport are the only non-Victorian standalone team that is really keen on joining this amalgamated league next year. It's good for Gold Coast footy to have two clubs in this league but even I'm willing to admit it seems a little odd.

It is odd but understand their own point of view and interest as a club up there.
Still think there is so much to happen before any eastern board league truly gets up and running and what format it would be.
Being keen is one thing. We will see how reality plays out in next 6 to 8 months. This is a totally up in there air at moment and will be for many many more months before something close to a real thing is organized. Too many variables and unknowns at this stage for anything to be formed any time soon.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Give control of local senior and junior leagues back to an independent body for a start. Costs of running local level clubs have gone through the roof with the introduction of afl affiliation with basically no additional services provided. Give that affiliation fee money to the new independent body.

So is there going to be any AFL funding of this new league and body?

 

[Tackle Bag]

So is there going to be any AFL funding of this new league and body?

Would be nice, particularly if the under 18 comp becomes a part of it, but hopefully not essential with fees brought in from local comp affiliation across the state.

I see no reason why local football leagues should be paying towards the costs of the AFL reserves, which is what’s currently happening.

I think there’s clearly enough evidence now to suggest that the AFL have not been successful in running football below the elite level, both here and in Tassie. I’d like to think that this restructuring would take place working with the AFL, allowing them to streamline in their own right and focus on the elite level and other developing markets.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Would be nice, particularly if the under 18 comp becomes a part of it, but hopefully not essential with fees brought in from local comp affiliation across the state.

I think there’s clearly enough evidence now to suggest that the AFL have not been successful in running football below the elite level, both here and in Tassie. I’d like to think that this restructuring would take place working with the AFL, allowing them to streamline in their own right and focus on the elite level and other developing markets.

I was skeptical at first, but after reading through everything you had to say, it sounds like it could be a good idea. I don't know how much affiliation fees raise, but hopefully enough to fund this idea.

I don't see the AFL relinquishing control and agreeing to provide funding to the new body. They're a pretty self-serving cabal, bent on having as much power and wealth as possible. But who knows, maybe whoever comes after Gil will put what's best for the game above lining his own pockets.

 

[Tackle Bag]

I was skeptical at first, but after reading through everything you had to say, it sounds like it could be a good idea. I don't know how much affiliation fees raise, but hopefully enough to fund this idea.

I don't see the AFL relinquishing control and agreeing to provide funding to the new body. They're a pretty self-serving cabal, bent on having as much power and wealth as possible. But who knows, maybe whoever comes after Gil will put what's best for the game above lining his own pockets.

I think with the new salary caps of 100-150k across all local div 1 comps in Victoria , we are going to have a bunch of powerhouse local clubs sitting on enormous bank accounts in 5 years and getting very frustrated by not being allowed to operate at full strength.
It won’t be long before they begin talking of creating a competition that allows them to use their resources.

Better to get the restructure right now with all local leagues invested in the process.

 

[MRobbo]

What we do know

Frankston, Port Melbourne, Werribee and Williamstown will be stand alone clubs in new competition, no news on Coburg yet but likely also to be stand alone

North Melbourne are looking for an alignment

Southport have declared their intention on joining

Canberra Demons and Redlands Bombers will not be participating in the new league

 

[Tackle Bag]

What we do know

Frankston, Port Melbourne, Werribee and Williamstown will be stand alone clubs in new competition, no news on Coburg yet but likely also to be stand alone

North Melbourne are looking for an alignment

Southport have declared their intention on joining

Canberra Demons and Redlands Bombers will not be participating in the new league

I wonder if coburg will be pressured into a nth melb alignment

 

[Rickee]

It all hangs on if/how much the AFL will pay for flights and accommodation for clubs travelling into and out of Victoria. The AFL reserves sides and the aligned ones will be able to cover it, but the stand alone sides simply can't, and I'd hate to see them forced into an alignment out of necessity.

 

[Mick F]

Berwick are in the South East FL, Kilsyth in the Eastern FL, Mordi in the Southern FL and Traralgon in the Gippsland FL are the only clubs that exist with a direct lineage to their VFA days, other clubs are unrelated clubs with the same name, like Caulfield and Yarraville, or have merged several times, like Prahran-Assumption, Geelong West Giants and Waverley Blues.

The pipe dream of resurrecting the VFA will only happen with AFL Victorias backing, and that will be a day that Satan will ice skate to work.

Few memories from the 80s - mate Ron Mannens played for Berwick, not the bravest of men.
Played Mordialloc in a practice match, had about 60 tap outs. They were a poor Div 2 side.
Another two mates, fine players at Southport - Peter Boyce and Zane Taylor.

 

[Dogs till i die]

I think with the new salary caps of 100-150k across all local div 1 comps in Victoria , we are going to have a bunch of powerhouse local clubs sitting on enormous bank accounts in 5 years and getting very frustrated by not being allowed to operate at full strength.
It won’t be long before they begin talking of creating a competition that allows them to use their resources.

Better to get the restructure right now with all local leagues invested in the process.

Agree, right now is critical for the stand alone Vic teams, they wouldn't want another change of structure in a few years if this new proposal fails like the NEAFL.

I think your scenario will eventuate re powerhouse local clubs. Clubs like Vermont and Keilor have the resources and may relish a new challenge.

Form a Melbourne 'pyramid' regionalised below the top 2 divisions (EDFL, EFL, NFL etc.) and allow any club to rise to the top if they want to / are good enough to. Just ensure there are sensible salary and point caps from top to bottom.

 

[Tigers Time]

Word is Richmond is out.

 

[The Victorian]

Word is Richmond is out.

meant to be the most powerful club in the league with 100,000 members yet still cant afford a VFL or VFLW side..

I guess that fine last week didnt help but you cant cure stupidity

 

[Tigers Time]

meant to be the most powerful club in the league with 100,000 members yet still cant afford a VFL or VFLW side..

I guess that fine last week didnt help but you cant cure stupidity

I think the fine was just the straw that broke the camels back. Word was it was a knife edge before the fine.

 

[The Victorian]

I think the fine was just the straw that broke the camels back. Word was it was a knife edge before the fine.

Still dont understand it when they have the most members in the league. What are they wasting their money on?

If one of the richest clubs in the league cant field their own reserves side, who can?

There will not be enough VFL clubs for those AFL clubs wanting an alignment I reckon...

 

[Tigers Time]

Still dont understand it when they have the most members in the league. What are they wasting their money on?

If one of the richest clubs in the league cant field their own reserves side, who can?

There will not be enough VFL clubs for those AFL clubs wanting an alignment I reckon...

We are in essence a stand alone club (no afl help) and I think this is us planning for a worse case scenario. Will people be able to afford memberships next year and beyond? Will there be crowds next year or more of what’s happening now?

Also with list cuts potentially happening we may not have the players to make up a team. Ie if lists go down to say 38 that leaves only 16 outside best 22, you get injuries even less playing in a reserve team.

I think it’s a case of us making the money we do have last as long as possible. Going all in on the AFL & AFLW teams. It’s disappointing for sure.

 

[banzai]

Also with list cuts potentially happening we may not have the players to make up a team. Ie if lists go down to say 38 that leaves only 16 outside best 22, you get injuries even less playing in a reserve team.

I think it’s a case of us making the money we do have last as long as possible. Going all in on the AFL & AFLW teams. It’s disappointing for sure.

Its disappointing but if lists are cut to 38 over the next few years then its hard to see the point of a VFL team anyway. Most AFL teams by midyear have atleast 7-8 players out injured. Then if the VFL play before the AFL side or the team is traveling then they hold players over or take extra interstate. It would leave many teams with only 5 or so AFL players playing a lot of weeks. So without clubs having alignments it will be difficult to get it to work.