2020 Trade & List Management discussion

[Crow till I die]

Looking at the possible strategy and it is a dart throwing exercise but with the club likely to be a bottom 4 side next year they are sure of getting in a top end mid in the 2021 draft assuming they don't trade that pick. They know that this year with picks 9, 22 & 23 they can also take mids that look / project as good. Therefore taking Thilthorpe or McDonald at pick 1 is the greatest need and it just happens both players are extremely highly rated and therefore it makes sense to take one of them knowing the holes in the midfield can be plugged with other picks and the 2021 1st

 

[Jeffcrowe]

We need to move past Walker and Mackay as players and as leaders

If the club was confident in the playing list and younger players we would move past them, because of all the good footballers and quality leaders we have coming through. We're not confident in the playing list though.

If the club coaches were confident in their ability to develop and identify players we would move past Tex and DMac. We're not though.

The decision makers at the club have significant doubt in their own abilities and that is reflected by the choices they make.

Move Tex and D Mac on....? Hmmm not sure, I'm a bit iffy about our list.

We'll see new leaders emerge...? Hmmmm maybe, it could happen. You want names? Well, the Dude when he's not injured. And... umm... what was the question again?

We'll develop good players...? I guess anything's possible. But just in case we don't....

Absence of talent + Absence of leadership + Absence of proven football department decision makers + Absence of proven development coaches

= retain a few older guys even though they are obviously past it

Doedee and ROB should be the 2 prime leaders

 

[Jeffcrowe]

If Fog doesn’t make it , will have nothing to do with selectors , coach , senior players being ‘gifted’ games

it will be because the Penny never dropped

he’s had about 5 seasons now including junior football where he’s played about 1-2 games per season at the level he should be

there ain’t many more excuses

 

[Jeffcrowe]

Looking at the possible strategy and it is a dart throwing exercise but with the club likely to be a bottom 4 side next year they are sure of getting in a top end mid in the 2021 draft assuming they don't trade that pick. They know that this year with picks 9, 22 & 23 they can also take mids that look / project as good. Therefore taking Thilthorpe or McDonald at pick 1 is the greatest need and it just happens both players are extremely highly rated and therefore it makes sense to take one of them knowing the holes in the midfield can be plugged with other picks and the 2021 1st

Exactly right

this is a very high end key position draft mainly key forwards of which the opportunity might not come again with the picks we have and the talent available

It’s a rebuild and it won’t happen in 12-24 months so need to be patient abs take the key forward and some mids then next year take the mids at pointy end ( I believe we will have pick 1 or 2 again )

great draft for SA mids next year

 

[Crow till I die]

AFL Off-Season Central: Every club’s ins, outs, delistings, retirements, trades, draft picks, recruits, rookies

Bulldogs’ 2019 leading goalkicker announces sudden retirement: Off-Season Central

www.foxsports.com.au

Essendon has delisted two players and committed to re-drafting another duo as rookies.

Jacob Townsend

21

Jacob Townsend

Age

32

Ht

187cm

Wt

89kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.7

2star

K

5.5

2star

HB

4.3

3star

M

2.5

3star

T

4.0

5star

G

0.7

4star

D

6.9

1star

K

4.6

2star

HB

2.3

2star

M

2.1

2star

T

3.0

4star

G

1.0

4star

D

7.8

2star

K

5.0

2star

HB

2.8

3star

M

2.0

3star

T

3.6

5star

G

0.2

3star

and Henry Crauford will both not have their contracts renewed for 2021.

After playing in Richmond’s 2017 flag, Townsend was given a lifeline by Essendon after he was recruited during the pre-season supplemental selection period (SSP). He played 12 games for the Bombers in 2020.

Crauford, a 204cm ruckman that won the SANFL reserves’ best and fairest award in 2019, was also taken via the SSP, but failed to play a senior game this year.

Any chance we could look to rookie Crauford?..I recall some on these boards were spruiking him a while back - Norwood lad? from memory

 

[Kezza86]

How many years have we been hoping that would happen?

I’m waiting to see what he’s like after preseason before I pigeon hole him. Like I said if he’s not internally motivated to improve and float through the year, he will be playing SANFL footy.

 

[Kezza86]

I’d be ecstatic but there is about as much chance as that happening as us getting pick 2 for Crouch.

Also hopefully he’s been watching Hawkins and realises you need to go up 2 hands to mark the ball.

Reality it’s train hard like Hawkins did last years or he will be playing SANFL.

 

[Crow Envy]

Reality it’s train hard like Hawkins did last years or he will be playing SANFL.

There is more to it than training hard, his body is giving up on him, his mobility is shot.

 

[dylan123]

We need to move past Walker and Mackay as players and as leaders

If the club was confident in the playing list and younger players we would move past them, because of all the good footballers and quality leaders we have coming through. We're not confident in the playing list though.

If the club coaches were confident in their ability to develop and identify players we would move past Tex and DMac. We're not though.

The decision makers at the club have significant doubt in their own abilities and that is reflected by the choices they make.

Move Tex and D Mac on....? Hmmm not sure, I'm a bit iffy about our list.

We'll see new leaders emerge...? Hmmmm maybe, it could happen. You want names? Well, the Dude when he's not injured. And... umm... what was the question again?

We'll develop good players...? I guess anything's possible. But just in case we don't....

Absence of talent + Absence of leadership + Absence of proven football department decision makers + Absence of proven development coaches

= retain a few older guys even though they are obviously past it

Agree with the sentiment but I do hate seeing people put Tex on the same level as DMac.

 

[Kezza86]

There is more to it than training hard, his body is giving up on him, his mobility is shot.

It’s called putting himself in the best shape possible. The rest goes from there...

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

How many picks will your club use at the NAB AFL Draft?

Clubs are deciding how many selections they will use at next month's intake of players

www.afl.com.au

If Hawks want to take 5 picks, we may be able to target their pick 4, so the drop to pick 9, but move up some of their later picks.

 

[GROTTO]

If Hawks want to take 5 picks, we may be able to target their pick 4, so the drop to pick 9, but move up some of their later picks.

Do you think thats a decision we would make on draft night if there is a slider we wanted and is available at 4?

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Do you think thats a decision we would make on draft night if there is a slider we wanted and is available at 4?

More likely on draft night than before hand... but if we now think someone we want will be available at effectively the 5th pick after the WB match, then would be likely cheaper to do deal before hand.

 

[Crow Envy]

It’s called putting himself in the best shape possible. The rest goes from there...

It’s called dreaming

 

[Clayton Lamb]

Reality it’s train hard like Hawkins did last years or he will be playing SANFL.

In 2019 he played 18 SANFL games, kicking 15 goals. Played as a defender in some of those games I remember.

Adelaide - SANFL

sanfl.com.au

It wasn't till the end of 2019 that they played him in the AFL, and that wasn't because he was dominating in the SANFL. Had a great game against WCE in Perth kicking 5.

Really hope he can become something. He is quite an Enigma!

 

[Dudersaurus]

In 2019 he played 18 SANFL games, kicking 15 goals. Played as a defender in some of those games I remember.

Adelaide - SANFL

sanfl.com.au

It wasn't till the end of 2019 that they played him in the AFL, and that wasn't because he was dominating in the SANFL. Had a great game against WCE in Perth kicking 5.

Really hope he can become something. He is quite an Enigma!

Fairly sure the previous discussion was re Tex, not Fog. Advice is equally applicable though.

 

[1970crow]

Most of that was known. The big change, relative to The Age's information, is the ability to have up to 6x Cat A rookies.

Reading the article, it's still not clear how the rookie numbers work.

My take is that the upper limits will be 36/6, 37/5, or 38/4... plus 0-2 Cat B rookies. However, given the usual lack of clarity in any AFL media release - I could be completely wrong.

Interestingly, the article says that the reduced lists will only be for 2021, with 2022 returning to normal.

Which begs the question as to what is the point at all given cutting 2 people off a list would save each club $150k Max when the AFL's plan is to retire the total debt in only 2 years. As if 18 x $150k makes a material difference to that. Sheer bloody mindedness, pure incompetence or rampant stupidity or a combination of any of the 3 is my best guess.

 

[1970crow]

There was a significant shift this year.

Largely a forced shift. We still went the usual direction with numerous selection choices. It's an important distinction.

 

[1970crow]

I wouldn’t have kept MacKay - I would have gone Gallucci but to suggest we are living in the past is ridiculous. We do need some players over 23 on our list. We are down to about 15? And we know next year another 3-4 of those are gone. While we haven’t necessarily kept the players I would have - I think we have definitely cut deep enough so far


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

I didn't suggest we're living in the past. It was Justin Reid himself that said Mackay's extension was a reward for previous seasons rather than building our future contending list. And you don't keep age on the list for the sake of it alone any more than you select youth for the reverse reason. Better old heads than Mackay out there from better systems than ours if we wanted to identify a list spot purely for leadership and fringe level performance. But I think we have enough AFC leadership left to not have needed to do that. But if we did allocate that spot, David Mackay

14

David Mackay

Age

37

Ht

181cm

Wt

78kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.0

4star

K

9.2

4star

HB

7.7

5star

M

3.2

3star

T

3.2

5star

MG

315.4

4star

D

16.5

4star

K

7.0

3star

HB

9.5

5star

M

2.5

3star

T

2.0

3star

MG

265.5

4star

D

12.0

3star

K

6.2

3star

HB

5.8

4star

M

4.6

5star

T

1.2

3star

of the AFC is the last footballer you'd choose to fill it with.

 

[1970crow]

Selection philosophy changed about a month or so in when we dropped some non performing experienced players for younger players... & our performances slowly improved!

This is big footy urban legend, it did not happen. We dropped Seed and Mrouch for round 4. Mrouch returned in round 5. Next senior player to be dropped is Kelly for round 8. But he returns for round 9 which also saw the return of Gibbs, Rat and Knight who were dropped for round 10. Kelly dropped for round 11, returning round 12. Seedsman dropped for round 13 and Murphy for round 17.

So after the covid closedown, in the timeframe that you refer to, we dropped a total of 2 senior players with 1 returning the very next week. In our final 16 games, and excluding the immediate dropping of the 3 ins for the Kangaroos debacle, senior players were dropped a total of 6 times. Kelly twice and immediately returning, Mrouch once and immediately returning, Seed twice and Murphy.

How you and many others saw our selection philosophy change isn't backed up by historical record.

 

[1970crow]

They were unders deals to move them on , same has happened this off season with Hartigan

this is a deliberate and deep rebuild

No it's not, it was thrust upon us when it turned out we were completely shit in 2020. We didn't plan for this, we descended into it.

 

[1970crow]

If Fogarty can't fit enough to make at least a second, let alone 3 effort he could be gone at the end of year

Let's be clear, Fogarty was thrown into the contest (not centre) quite a few times this year and he seemed like he fitted. His biggest problem was he couldn't back it up. Godden was right

Funny how it's always the youth pegged as not being fit enough but Tex and Sloane can amble around with no second efforts and coaches praise the experience they bring.

 

[1970crow]

I can't work out why we didn't delist Mackay with a promise to "take him in the rookie draft". Literally no one was going to take him and that extra ND pick may have been crucial. Its not like we don't have more dead weight to cut next year from the senior list if that was the concern.

Gifting Mackay the last spot on the list at the rookie draft is a lot more understandable than pre draft. But the optics aren't good that way, supporters needed to know how valued he is and lucky we are thatched hose to sign on again. It's certainly not for fear of losing him that we jumped, so it must be something else that's not football dept related.

 

[1970crow]

He’s better than that , he’s got the tools just needs to toughen up and do it

Nothing to suggest he's any better than what he is. Which is an AA quality half back. I thought the idea was to play players in the roles that maximises their performance. But we'd rather get fringe level mid/fwd performance out of an AA quality half back in a team desperate for more drive and quality from the back half. Couldn't script that level of stupidity.

 

[1970crow]

What if Tex gets himself in shape like Hawkins and kicks 50 goals plus. What would you do there?

He was in shape this year, was going to play up on a wing from memory.