Society/Culture Morrison Makes It Official, Whatever The Cost, We Will Not Surrender To China's Threats

[Carringbush2010]

I hope so otherwise we will be left in the dust no pun intended

with the Libs current stance on climate change I’m not holding my breath anytime soon

Well it's clear that this conservative govt. will only adopt greener policies if it is of economic benefit. What's also clear is old technology like coal power is now more expensive that greener options like solar.

It may not look like it right now, but when there is a $ win by transitioning then that is the only practical path.

How that effects our trade with China could have massive implications, further how we trade with anyone in raw materials forgetting China but rather how transitioning away from iron ore altogether will all depend on market forces.

There's also a lot mining in other materials like gold, Australia is the 2 largest producer If I am correct. There's a lot of water to go under the bridge but greener technology will slowly transition to a more practical alternative.

 

[RegHickeyStand]

no one made china the target.

they are the target of their own doing.

they caused COVID because they have festering conditions where animals that do not mingle in nature are housed together in unhygienic cages spreading diseases to each other in unhygienic meat markets.

the world and scomo has the right to call them out on it, so it never happens again.

2,614 dead in America today from the Trump-demic there. Trump made the American people the target. Hence all this.

China didn't report any deaths today. Funny, that.

The response is what it is all about. Thats what causes the deaths. Thats what Trump wants people to forget. And so he uses Scommo. And we end up in China's crosshairs, and Trump walks away.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Well, now support of Australia has ramped up on social media across Europe and the states - a US ambassador no less in that group.

But yeah it's just Murdoch press 'fake noos' right?

 

[QuietB]

Well, now support of Australia has ramped up on social media across Europe and the states - a US ambassador no less in that group.

But yeah it's just Murdoch press 'fake noos' right?

Murdoch’s guy is currently in the White House.

Not for long though. Australia backed the wrong horse.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Murdoch’s guy is currently in the White House.

Not for long though. Australia backed the wrong horse.

I assume you're implying the 'horse' is the Murdoch press, can you link the 'backing' by 'Australia' in any official way that has any effect on any reporting of international support?

If you're assuming the 'horse' is Trump, then that's neither here or there because Biden is reportedly also in opposition to China's 'behaviour' in general.

If you think that Biden will just dismiss it's closest military partner and let China do as they please trade wise to that partner that'd be very surprising.

 

[Roby]

So many CCP apologists in Australia.

If you want to do business with them you can always move there. Just don't expect anyone to come to rescue you when s**t goes bad.

 

[Lethality]

2,614 dead in America today from the Trump-demic there. Trump made the American people the target. Hence all this.

China didn't report any deaths today. Funny, that.

The response is what it is all about. Thats what causes the deaths. Thats what Trump wants people to forget. And so he uses Scommo. And we end up in China's crosshairs, and Trump walks away.

Virtually everyone predicted the next pandemic would come from China, so it probably has a lot to do with them.

I wouldn't put too much faith in what China reports either.

 

[DaRick]

Projected by Scomo himself, whichever you boil it down and dissect it the intentions of his requests or lend a helping to HK citizens was to come across as diplomatic. How China has reacted is on them, you or I anyone else cannot argue his 'wording' was reasonable and does not warrant that sort of criticism.

OK, let us assume for a moment that you are right, and that ScoMo's pledge of assistance to HK denizens was, from the point of view of an average Australian like you and me, diplomatically and politely worded.

Even leaving out China's touchiness about its global reputation leading them to interpret such overtures in a completely different light, and IMO that being reasonably foreseeable by diplomats who have worked with China, the operative question is: cui bono?

Anyway, the whole HK thing was small potatoes compared to COVID because it wasn't such a global catastrophe.

Or worse still give us a 'warning' not to patrol the South China seas. Surely that is all bluster, not even China is that naive to raise a military attack on the US's closest military ally.

No, luckily.

Although I perceive China as a force for whatever benefits them, rather than a force for good, they're not as naïve as they might look from afar. They're a bit like the North Koreans, actually. Your average Australian would quite understandably perceive many of their actions as unreasonably aggressive, but as long as they get what they want over the longer run (whether it be forcing the US not treat them like they did Saddam's Iraq in North Korea's case, or keeping their existing partners in line by making an example of perceived belligerents in China's case), they don't care.

'Yeah don't p155 off China coz they'll screw us down in a trade war', well it's not like they've got free reign in how they do that. There are rules they're bound to with the WTO

Fair enough to run with our tail between our legs if we were the only sovereignty being bullied and there wasn't a trading arbiter in the WTO. But how would it look if we just bent over and copped the criticism?, you can bet your house there'd outrage at that moreso than what there is standing up to the bully.

Not fully sure what you're driving at here.

RE the WTO, what I've read about them recently doesn't inspire confidence. Firstly, even beforehand they took almost a decade to resolve major trade disputes (Airbus/EU vs Boeing/USA). Secondly, Trump and Co. have badly undermined the WTO in recent times by blocking appointments to panels, to the point where their Appellate Body lacks enough judges to actually decide disputes. So even if Australia does somehow beat China on this issue, it would be a pyrrhic victory because most of the damage would already have been done.

This is kind of like the flipside of naïve leftists who put all their faith in the UN.

Also, where would the outrage come from? International outrage probably won't hurt ScoMo domestically. The LNP base would broadly approve because ScoMo represents the LNP. Your average Australian might be mildly disapproving, but would quickly turn their attention to keeping themselves afloat financially - plus foreign affairs rarely decide elections. The ALP base would be more split than the LNP base, but the fact that ScoMo is at the helm would temper any enthusiasm for the government's actions. So domestically, I doubt much changes. It's not like ScoMo is facing an election for a while.

 

[Carringbush2010]

OK, let us assume for a moment that you are right, and that ScoMo's pledge of assistance to HK denizens was, from the point of view of an average Australian like you and me, diplomatically and politely worded.

Even leaving out China's touchiness about its global reputation leading them to interpret such overtures in a completely different light, and IMO that being reasonably foreseeable by diplomats who have worked with China, the operative question is: cui bono?

Anyway, the whole HK thing was small potatoes compared to COVID because it wasn't such a global catastrophe.



No, luckily.

Although I perceive China as a force for whatever benefits them, rather than a force for good, they're not as naïve as they might look from afar. They're a bit like the North Koreans, actually. Your average Australian would quite understandably perceive many of their actions as unreasonably aggressive, but as long as they get what they want over the longer run (whether it be forcing the US not treat them like they did Saddam's Iraq in North Korea's case, or keeping their existing partners in line by making an example of perceived belligerents in China's case), they don't care.



Not fully sure what you're driving at here.

RE the WTO, what I've read about them recently doesn't inspire confidence. Firstly, even beforehand they took almost a decade to resolve major trade disputes (Airbus/EU vs Boeing/USA). Secondly, Trump and Co. have badly undermined the WTO in recent times by blocking appointments to panels, to the point where their Appellate Body lacks enough judges to actually decide disputes. So even if Australia does somehow beat China on this issue, it would be a pyrrhic victory because most of the damage would already have been done.

This is kind of like the flipside of naïve leftists who put all their faith in the UN.

Also, where would the outrage come from? International outrage probably won't hurt ScoMo domestically. The LNP base would broadly approve because ScoMo represents the LNP. Your average Australian might be mildly disapproving, but would quickly turn their attention to keeping themselves afloat financially - plus foreign affairs rarely decide elections. The ALP base would be more split than the LNP base, but the fact that ScoMo is at the helm would temper any enthusiasm for the government's actions. So domestically, I doubt much changes. It's not like ScoMo is facing an election for a while.

I'll reiterate, China's cui bono reaction is on them, again this is not about 'beating' China. International support for Australia is seemingly growing at a rapid rate.

Scomo's rhetoric (or diplomacy depending how one views it) is clearly targeted at restoring ties with China along with calling out an abhorrent attempt at offence. So I'd call it reasonable discourse, how China has viewed it is again looking defensive and deflective, certainly hypocritical.

In regards to the Trump and WTO, Trump is gone and it's fair speculation that Biden will be looking to repair that. I'll admit that both the UN and WTO are somewhat toothless tigers. Regardless there are rules that all trading partners are obliged to adhere to, even if the WTO is somewhat 'powerless' as you allude to, the Five Eyes collective is certainly not - China is no match for that allied collective and I seriously doubt that if China continues bullying other trading partners like Taiwan for instance that that collective will just roll over and accept it. The other allies likely have vested interest in ensuring China stops bullying of their trading partner sovereignties.

There will be a tipping point at some stage.

As for the 'outrage', I'll maintain my position that the Australian public in general would not just happily accept a zero response let alone a 'yes sir three bags full sir'. There'd certainly be a 'wimp' reaction from the public majority if that was the response IMO. That is certainly fair speculation.

 

[RegHickeyStand]

Virtually everyone predicted the next pandemic would come from China, so it probably has a lot to do with them.

I wouldn't put too much faith in what China reports either.

They always come from China. Mostly. They farm pigs and fowl together. Filthy wet markets. But the rest of the world can't keep its hands off Chinese produce etc. Its sort of like repeatedly going to a prostitute and whining about all the times you got gonorrhea off her

 

[William Wonka]

Wow.

 

[Lethality]

They always come from China. Mostly. They farm pigs and fowl together. Filthy wet markets. But the rest of the world can't keep its hands off Chinese produce etc. Its sort of like repeatedly going to a prostitute and whining about all the times you got gonorrhea off her

The virus spread through international travel, not from buying produce.

 

[ExcitementMachine]

2,614 dead in America today from the Trump-demic there. Trump made the American people the target. Hence all this.

China didn't report any deaths today. Funny, that.

The response is what it is all about. Thats what causes the deaths. Thats what Trump wants people to forget. And so he uses Scommo. And we end up in China's crosshairs, and Trump walks away.

He got voted out, hes itellevant now.
That doesnt absolve china.
I'm.more interested in australias death count, lets also compare how many pandemics have started in australia in the past 20 years compared to.china. i know whos record im proud of.

Mr im the white knight of the country that locks up 1,000,000 muslims in concentration camps.

 

[Gethelred]

Well the reality is that a war between Australia, the US and China would be very ugly but I'd sure rather be on the American side. I doubt it will come to that on our lifetimes, however.

I'd rather be sitting 1000's of km to the south, my hands in the air, saying, "You want to fight, y'all sort it out yourselves."

 

[QuietB]

Wow.
View attachment 1021937

Exactly. But ideology must win

 

[ExcitementMachine]

Exactly. But ideology must win

If you hate australia that much then why not move to another country, if it hurts so much that we are taking a different direction to the one of becoming a vassal state of china.

No need to squeel and be dragged kicking and screaming as we do it.
And we know you are not ceying any tears for the farmers who are losing put in this war, lets be real you dont and have never given a * about them.

Time to get on a jumbo jet and change countries.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

2,614 dead in America today from the Trump-demic there. Trump made the American people the target. Hence all this.

China didn't report any deaths today. Funny, that.

The response is what it is all about. Thats what causes the deaths. Thats what Trump wants people to forget. And so he uses Scommo. And we end up in China's crosshairs, and Trump walks away.

You think China are reporting accurate COViD numbers?? Lololll

 

[RegHickeyStand]

The virus spread through international travel, not from buying produce.

True. But a major reason we go there is because China got wealthy of our trade and business travel to China is very substantial.

 

[RegHickeyStand]

You think China are reporting accurate COViD numbers?? Lololll

No country can keep it hidden for long. Brazil literally closed down its economy for a while when it got out of control there. China was in panic when it first happened. Italy, Spain went into total lockdown for over a month. Hide it or ignore it, and after a while it will show up like pink hotpants at a funeral. Could they be trying to keep the numbers down like America, Brazil, and other countries have tried. No doubt. But they can't do that in a big way.

 

[RegHickeyStand]

 

[DaRick]

I'll reiterate, China's cui bono reaction is on them, again this is not about 'beating' China. International support for Australia is seemingly growing at a rapid rate.

Scomo's rhetoric (or diplomacy depending how one views it) is clearly targeted at restoring ties with China along with calling out an abhorrent attempt at offence. So I'd call it reasonable discourse, how China has viewed it is again looking defensive and deflective, certainly hypocritical.

I was questioning how intervening RE HK benefited Australia, and I was referring to ScoMo's conduct during that affair, not during COVID. Apples and oranges.

In regards to the Trump and WTO, Trump is gone and it's fair speculation that Biden will be looking to repair that. I'll admit that both the UN and WTO are somewhat toothless tigers. Regardless there are rules that all trading partners are obliged to adhere to, even if the WTO is somewhat 'powerless' as you allude to, the Five Eyes collective is certainly not - China is no match for that allied collective and I seriously doubt that if China continues bullying other trading partners like Taiwan for instance that that collective will just roll over and accept it. The other allies likely have vested interest in ensuring China stops bullying of their trading partner sovereignties.

Yes, Biden will stop strangling the WTO. Yes, it will take some time. Yes, it will still take forever to determine the outcome of any dispute.

The Five Eyes collective aren't an economic bloc and so are unlikely to move as one on economic affairs beyond providing rhetorical support. Canada and the UK also still trade with the US more than with China, so the impact of any tariffs they impose will be limited, and New Zealand are New Zealand.

There will be a tipping point at some stage.

As for the 'outrage', I'll maintain my position that the Australian public in general would not just happily accept a zero response let alone a 'yes sir three bags full sir'. There'd certainly be a 'wimp' reaction from the public majority if that was the response IMO. That is certainly fair speculation.

I think for the West as a collective to turn on China and hit them where it hurts, China will have to do much more than punish Australia economically. It seems to me that China are still too rational an actor to do that.

RE domestic opinion, they might not be thrilled with any perceived Australian backdown, but I maintain that it won't affect ScoMo's electoral prospects very much. Since when have elections been decided by foreign affairs?

 

[Strange Cat]

Regarding elections being affected by foreign affairs it’ll depend on how much this will escalate imo

 

[DaRick]

Regarding elections being affected by foreign affairs it’ll depend on how much this will escalate imo

I honestly can't remember the last time an election was?

The closest thing I can think of was conscription and Vietnam (1964-1972), though even that took a long time to finally bury the Libs, with Gough obviously providing the final push.

 

[Strange Cat]

I honestly can't remember the last time an election was?

The closest thing I can think of was conscription and Vietnam (1964-1972), though even that took a long time to finally bury the Libs, with Gough obviously providing the final push.

Again if it affects the public enough it’ll be an issue

 

[RegHickeyStand]

I honestly can't remember the last time an election was?

The closest thing I can think of was conscription and Vietnam (1964-1972), though even that took a long time to finally bury the Libs, with Gough obviously providing the final push.

Palmer, every five minutes on the TV his ads had the ALP allowing a Chiese airstrip in WA. Palmer won the election for the Libs and he was big on China attacks. Funded by a Chinese company payments. Irony.