NO TROLLS Transgender Discrimination AFL Lawsuit

[Cdog71]

There was a transgender kiwi weightlifter who had to give a gold medal back when she won in the female division at the last commonwealth games but tested as having too much testosterone for women’s sport.
I think we might see a bit of this at the Olympic’s and it’s not simple.
Just to illustrate how complicated as I understand it Hannah Mouncey kept her penis because she’s a lesbian who likes to have sex with women...with it.

I didn’t make that up or say it to stir the pot.
The problem is what constitutes a male athlete or a female athlete.

 

[Gavin Excell]

A nightmare for progressives

 

[Black white]

There was a transgender kiwi weightlifter who had to give a gold medal back when she won in the female division at the last commonwealth games but tested as having too much testosterone for women’s sport.
I think we might see a bit of this at the Olympic’s and it’s not simple.
Just to illustrate how complicated as I understand it Hannah Mouncey kept her penis because she’s a lesbian who likes to have sex with women...with it.

I didn’t make that up or say it to stir the pot.
The problem is what constitutes a male athlete or a female athlete.

If you have a tangle swinging between your legs during a 400m race you're a bloke, especially doing hurdles

 

[Belnakor]

Serena has said she couldn't beat the top men players but she might do okay against the 500th ranked player because of her serve.

The male players are being nice. She wouldn’t win a game against anyone in the top 500 who was actually trying

 

[Belnakor]

But women are excluded from men’s sport, and vice versa.

Interestingly no one has flagged the option that we do away with men’s and women’s sports, and purely base it on ability. You’d end up with a fair bit of gender separation anyway, but if women were good enough to get a run with the boys, good on em. Then trans wouldn’t be an issue. Separate pay rates also would no longer be an issue. You could say it’s unfair because women are less athletic but that’s no more unfair than the fact that some people are just taller, faster, more skilful than others.

That’s because it’s an idiotic option and women wouldn’t support it. Any sport that requires strength or agility you’d just have an open division full of men... and that’s it.

 

[Bombermania]

The male players are being nice. She wouldn’t win a game against anyone in the top 500 who was actually trying

That would depend on who the 500th rank player was. I'm not saying Serena could beat them but her serve is a real weapon and as long as the guy didn't move her around too much or hit with too much top spin then she could win a few games but Serena has said she wouldn't beat the men.

 

[RUNVS]

A nightmare for progressives

Yep, as we actually care about equality.

 

[Gavin Excell]

Yep, as we actually care about equality.

And yet the desire for equality delivers inequality in this case on the sporting field
What then wins out?

 

[zill]

Transgender wrestler Mack Beggs wins Texas girls title again

High school senior, 18, who wants to fight boys, beats opponent from 2017 final again

www.google.com

This guy was born female. He wants to wrestle with boys but the rules state he has to wrestle with girls. Has won the championship 2 years in a row.

That person is having hormone therapy, so is essentially a drug cheat. Would be interesting to know how many males would forfeit against them, as a number of the females did.

 

[RUNVS]

And yet the desire for equality delivers inequality in this case on the sporting field
What then wins out?

In my opinion due to the advantage trans women have (an advantage that isn't their fault but is a reality) I am afraid I have to go against trans women competing, at least in a professional context.

 

[Cdog71]

If you have a tangle swinging between your legs during a 400m race you're a bloke, especially doing hurdles

National records, gold medals and Olympic records

 

[gingernuts]

Transgender only football league. problem solved

 

[TheKITC]

But women are excluded from men’s sport, and vice versa.

Interestingly no one has flagged the option that we do away with men’s and women’s sports, and purely base it on ability. You’d end up with a fair bit of gender separation anyway, but if women were good enough to get a run with the boys, good on em. Then trans wouldn’t be an issue. Separate pay rates also would no longer be an issue. You could say it’s unfair because women are less athletic but that’s no more unfair than the fact that some people are just taller, faster, more skilful than others.

I'm not entirely sure that women are excluded from competing in all of men's sport though strictly. The fact of the matter is that the vast majority of sports, if not all; women would simply not be able to compete with men and would be nowhere near their standard, particularly at the elite level where the differences are vast and more pronounced.

The physiological advantages men have over women are well documented (despite some wanting to deny them) and are essentially across the board in areas that affect elite athletes of all kinds. Using our game for example, a team of the very best AFLW players would almost certainly struggle against some of the most amateur and uncommitted local men's football teams. Even a sport like Darts; men's better spatial and hand-eye coordination and more precise control of large muscle movement among a whole host of other factors would see them be far too good, even though there would be no obvious physical barrier to a mixed competition. The list would go on... I'm struggling to think of any physical sport where there would be a true mixed competition. Obvious ones like Chess and Poker for example are currently mixed with no issues and even then men make up the strong majority at the elite end.

If the world went ahead with your poorly thought out idea of ability based sports, we would essentially have what we had several years ago, where the only real elite sport on offer was played by men. What sport could women possibly compete with men in? A cursory glance at Olympic records should give anyone a decent snapshot of how big the gap is.

 

[ShanDog]

And yet the desire for equality delivers inequality in this case on the sporting field
What then wins out?

The desire for equality is a desire for the removal of the unfair inequalities. Therefore, one doesn't need to 'win out'. They aren't really competing.

 

[ShanDog]

That person is having hormone therapy, so is essentially a drug cheat. Would be interesting to know how many males would forfeit against them, as a number of the females did.

They would be getting an unfair advantage against women, sure. But against men, he'd be unlikely to reach any level above the 'average' professional athlete because of his physiology. That's just the way the bell curve goes, and it's why men transitioning into women are the issue in sport.

 

[Black white]

View attachment 1041708

National records, gold medals and Olympic records

Are you saying he's a bloke or she's a bloke?

 

[Cdog71]

Are you saying he's a bloke or she's a bloke?

...both

 

[Gavin Excell]

The desire for equality is a desire for the removal of the unfair inequalities. Therefore, one doesn't need to 'win out'. They aren't really competing.

Modern dilemmas

 

[Kappa]

Good. The idea that women's footy would be flooded with guys pretending to be women like some kind of b grade chick flick is absurd.

This kind of argument is so dumb. It doesn't needed to be flooded, it just needs 1 95kg male who recently transitioned to a female crashing into a 58kg women athlete and breaking her in half for the entire competition to become a farce.

We should always strive for equality, however there are always going to be freak anomalies where "fairness" for the extreme majority has to outweigh fairness for the extreme extreme minority.

Make no mistake this is just the beginning of what could potentially be a huge problem for female sport going forward, we already have multiple gold medal winners and world champions in the female category who are biologically male, and over time as the money in female sport drastically increases and the ability to transition becomes easier and more affordable it will become increasingly prevelant. And before some Muppet says, no its not going to be everywhere, but professional sporting leagues need to sort it out now.

The truth is girls do NOT want to play professional sport against men, and allowing biological males to compete in female competitions will see participation drop away.

 

[Vintage]

Mills?

Liz Cambage. 203cm, 98kg.

 

[Suspense]

View attachment 1041708

National records, gold medals and Olympic records

Caster is not transgender - she is biologically intersex. She's as natural as Dawn Fraser.

 

[ShanDog]

Oh it is? How scientific. Good to know.

The science is fairly clear. Be warned - long post incoming!
__________________________________________________________________

A few tidbits from https://fairplayforwomen.com/biological-sex-differences/

WOMEN ARE SHORTER, about 9% on average. Nigerians have the smallest recorded height difference between the sexes at 4%, while men of the UAE are 11% taller than their women.

MALE BONES ARE BIGGER AND STRONGER, in both size and density. Peak male bone mass is around 50% more than women’s, and women lose bone faster as we age. Black people have significantly stronger bones than whites: black women’s peak bone mass is the same as white men’s.

women are around 30-35% muscle by weight, while men are 40-50% muscle. This varies a lot by age, health, fitness, body type and genetics. Any averagely healthy person can build more muscle by exercising and, to an extent, change the composition of their muscles. But women can’t match the bulk or strength of men’s skeletal muscles – unless they artificially raise their androgens by a significant amount, which would be dangerous.




Hand grip is one of the most widely-used markers for strength. The strongest 10% of females can only beat the bottom 10% of men! Weight for weight (lean body mass only), women’s grip remains pretty feeble compared to the men. These were large samples that included plenty of fit, young sportswomen with good upper body strength. Taking the 60 elite women separately, they were still only as good as an average to weak man.

In Olympic weightlifting, the biggest total weight achieved by a woman was 333kg by Zhou Lulu in the heaviest women’s body weight category, 75kg+. She also won the Clean & Jerk with 187kg, while Tatiana Kashirina lifted 151kg in the snatch.

You have to go down to men under 62kg to find a champion Zhou Lulu could beat, and under 56kg for a male champion Tatiana Kashirina could beat in the Snatch. Women of less than 75kg couldn’t beat any of the male winners, not even the smallest men.
_____________________________________________________________________

A great piece by Dr Emma Hilton here: https://fondofbeetles.wordpress.com...r-stronger-why-we-must-protect-female-sports/

No female has broken the 100m ’10 second barrier’, or even been close. Males, however, have a list of sub-10 seconders. There are 136 men who have run sub-10 second 100m sprints (2, 7). One naturally wonders how populous a list of males running faster than 10.49s would be. Well, it’s a long list, too extensive to plot from 1988 onwards. But in 2017 alone, the last full season of races, 744 senior males ran 100m faster than 10.49s for a combined total of 2825 runs

Figure 2. In 2017, 744 senior males ran 2825 100m races faster than 10.49s.

But forget 58 senior males running at Olympic level. She’s [Florence Griffith Joyner - fastest ever woman at 100m] not beating [the] 64 junior UK males who have run under 10.49s. The most well-tuned, explosive woman who ever trained her eye down a 100m track is beaten by 64 bumfluffed British juniors.

Male puberty and testosterone. Testosterone, the androgen driving male physical development, is a wonderful hormone. It is responsible for advantageous skeletal features that develop during male puberty, such as increased height, increased bone size and density, longer limbs, wider hand spans and a narrower pelvis, all of which make a 100m sprint or a slam dunk far easier. It also directs hugely increased muscle building capacity, allowing higher absolute masses to be achieved in shorter training times, mass which, by the way, contains a higher proportion of fast twitch fibres (responsible for explosive power) than observed in female muscles. To support this superior physicality, males have greater lung capacity, a higher VO2 max (the amount of oxygen consumed during high intensity exercise), a bigger heart with faster stroke rate and higher levels of haemoglobin, and thus can oxygenate their muscles more efficiently.

Analysis of adult/senior female sporting performances demonstrate parity with males around the age of 15 years old for individual events, and perhaps younger in team sports.

But males are harder. Males are better (at sports, at least). Males are faster. Males are stronger. The performance gap between male and female athletes is utterly astounding; it’s not a “gap”, it’s the Grand Canyon. Without sex-segregated sporting categories, the most wonderful 10.49s that female athletics has ever seen would be a footnote in history. We owe it to the female sports stars of today and to the girls who aspire to be tomorrow’s sporting heroes to fight for their right to take home gold.
_____________________________________________________________

And finally, a peer-reviewed paper by the same author that was published less than two months ago: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s40279-020-01389-3

From the abstract:
We report that the performance gap between males and females becomes significant at puberty and often amounts to 10–50% depending on sport. The performance gap is more pronounced in sporting activities relying on muscle mass and explosive strength, particularly in the upper body. Longitudinal studies examining the effects of testosterone suppression on muscle mass and strength in transgender women consistently show very modest changes, where the loss of lean body mass, muscle area and strength typically amounts to approximately 5% after 12 months of treatment. Thus, the muscular advantage enjoyed by transgender women is only minimally reduced when testosterone is suppressed.

Performance Differences in Non-elite Individuals:
The male performance advantages described above in athletic cohorts are similar in magnitude in untrained people. Even when expressed relative to fat-free weight, VO2max is 12–15% higher in males than in females [48]. Records of lower-limb muscle strength reveal a consistent 50% difference in peak torque between males and females across the lifespan [31]. Hubal et al. [49] tested 342 women and 243 men for isometric (maximal voluntary contraction) and dynamic strength (one-repetition maximum; 1RM) of the elbow flexor muscles and performed magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) of the biceps brachii to determine cross-sectional area. The males had 57% greater muscle size, 109% greater isometric strength, and 89% greater 1RM strength than age-matched females. This reinforces the finding in athletic cohorts that sex differences in muscle size and strength are more pronounced in the upper body.

From the conclusion:
We have shown that under testosterone suppression regimes typically used in clinical settings, and which comfortably exceed the requirements of sports federations for inclusion of transgender women in female sports categories by reducing testosterone levels to well below the upper tolerated limit, evidence for loss of the male performance advantage, established by testosterone at puberty and translating in elite athletes to a 10–50% performance advantage, is lacking. Rather, the data show that strength, lean body mass, muscle size and bone density are only trivially affected. The reductions observed in muscle mass, size, and strength are very small compared to the baseline differences between males and females in these variables, and thus, there are major performance and safety implications in sports where these attributes are competitively significant. These data significantly undermine the delivery of fairness and safety presumed by the criteria set out in transgender inclusion policies, particularly given the stated prioritization of fairness as an overriding objective (for the IOC).

 

[ShanDog]

Modern dilemmas

We are truly lucky to even be discussing them. Pick a random year in the history of humanity to be born in and, unless you are about as lucky as a Div 1 lotto winner, you're likely to be a serf and/or living a subsistence life of a grand 40 years before dying in poverty with no record of your existence.

 

[Cdog71]

Caster is not transgender - she is biologically intersex. She's as natural as Dawn Fraser.

The point is it isnt completely black and white what male and female is

 

[box070]

Liz Cambage. 203cm, 98kg.

Was she born with a vagina?