Society/Culture Australia Day - Date Change

[Seeds]

Is Australia day meant to be about celebrating aspect of British culture transplanted to Australia?
The conversation is moving towards having an Australia Day that doesn't focus on a particular day of arrival by some British outcasts, but rather a day that encompasses the heritage of those who were here for ~50,000 years + arrivals later than that and the current crop of people who are Australian.

Better to pick a month, then a random day in that month to celebrate and start Australia day anew

Australia day should celebrate neither the british arrival or the indiginous culture beforehand. neither of those things represent australia the country. they only represent what happened before australia became a unified country and people.

 

[Seeds]

FFS All of that stuff hasn't necessarily benefited blackfellas the way it has benefited everyone else. That is why people are upset about it.

it has benefitted them. If it didnt their would be demands to create a space where they could go back and live like they did 300 years ala the amish people. There isnt. You need to recognize the bad and the good and stop being so biased on either side of the argument.


to deny there is good is to deny that australia the country is worth celebrating on any date.

 

[Seeds]

Its one we should remember if that bullshit cost us family members.

Yes we should remember it. The way we remember a slaughter of innocent people. Not as something that made a country.

 

[ferball]

Yes we should remember it. The way we remember a slaughter of innocent people. Not as something that made a country.

I agree. I go to dawn services to remember specific family members who were killed pointlessly, not to celebrate warmongering. Its a sad day.

 

[00Stinger]

so if we change the date then all past sins are forgiven right?

 

[ferball]

Australia day should celebrate neither the british arrival or the indiginous culture beforehand. neither of those things represent australia the country. they only represent what happened before australia became a unified country and people.

If we could celebrate both as valued parts of our nation then we wouldn't be having these discussions. But to do that we need to acknowledge the bad as well as the good.

And FWIW there are constant demands by indigenous people with access to country and traditional knowledge to be able to live traditional lifestyles. How things were 300 years ago. Just cos you haven't listened to or heard them doesn't mean they don't exist. there is even evidence starting to emerge that doing so is better for indigenous people's mental health than not doing so and leads to less poor outcomes, less violence and less of the serious problems you see in places like Arakun, Tennant Creek or Palm Island.

 

[Seeds]

If we could celebrate both as valued parts of our nation then we wouldn't be having these discussions. But to do that we need to acknowledge the bad as well as the good.

And FWIW there are constant demands by indigenous people with access to country and traditional knowledge to be able to live traditional lifestyles. How things were 300 years ago. Just cos you haven't listened to or heard them doesn't mean they don't exist. there is even evidence starting to emerge that doing so is better for indigenous people's mental health than not doing so and leads to less poor outcomes, less violence and less of the serious problems you see in places like Arakun, Tennant Creek or Palm Island.

Do you Have any article links? I would be interested to read.

i can see the postives for mental health given humans evolved to live as hunter gatherers in small groups. Especially in the short term. there is, however, also physical health. it would also need to be measured on a long term basis where the mental aspects can change. Not in the first 6 months to 1 year when the novelty hasnt worn off and threats from sickness, drought and tribal warfare have yet to emerge.

 

[Ry009]

The people protesting will just move onto something else, then rinse and repeat.

Pretty generalised comment. So you have issue with people vocalising their opinions on issues, not the issue itself.

Not going to jump the gun and make assumptions about you, just sounds like you're one of those 'back to the old day types' that wants to live in an echo chamber.

Protesting has been happening for a while, so while the end of days hasn't come yet, not sure what your issue is about an open public debate.

 

[sherb]

How many people celebrate Australia day anyway?
Its all a bit cringeworthy
Change the date by all means, and make it inclusive of past, present and future citizens. Low key is best

It depends on how you define "celebrate".

For far too many, it's the bogan approach - "great a day off work", let's fire up the barbie, get on the piss, put up (or drape ourselves in) overseas made Aussie flags, crank up some Barnesy/Farnsey/Oils/Acca-Dacca/Chisel at peak volume and then when it gets late let off illegal fireworks which piss off the neighbours and scare all pets in the area.

All while having little to no idea of the country's history and/or having similarly little idea of how ****ing lucky they are to live in this country.

 

[Gethelred]

Abolish queens birthday first

It is the most unAustralian thing of all to suggest doing away with a public holiday.

 

[FRUMPY]

It depends on how you define "celebrate".

For far too many, it's the bogan approach - "great a day off work", let's fire up the barbie, get on the piss, put up (or drape ourselves in) overseas made Aussie flags, crank up some Barnesy/Farnsey/Oils/Acca-Dacca/Chisel at peak volume and then when it gets late let off illegal fireworks which piss off the neighbours and scare all pets in the area.

All while having little to no idea of the country's history and/or having similarly little idea of how ****ing lucky they are to live in this country.

I think those types you mentioned would know - hence they 'celebrate'

 

[Pessimistic]

It is the most unAustralian thing of all to suggest doing away with a public holiday.

Im suggesting another unifying holiday instead, any of the suggestions made here. May 27 when 90% of people voted together - hard to believe it happened today - Would be my option.
If there were opposition to this - it wouldnt be much and easy to counter - especially if it comes into force on the passing of the queen. After that , the QB holiday would be even more absurd

 

[Gethelred]

Im suggesting another unifying holiday instead, any of the suggestions made here. May 27 when 90% of people voted together - hard to believe it happened today - Would be my option.
If there were opposition to this - it wouldnt be much and easy to counter - especially if it comes into force on the passing of the queen. After that , the QB holiday would be even more absurd

I think Australia should be a republic, but I maintain that there is nothing more unAustralian than doing away with a public holiday. I don't care about the logic, or about the way it looks or the political points it scores; I also do not care if the day continues to be called the Queen's Birthday.

I recognise the inherent illogic of such a thing, but Australians are not logical people. And I am very much an Australian.

 

[Gethelred]

Anzac day represents a day of australian idiocy and subservience to britain. Not realy one we should remember.

the values of australia is however something we should celebrate even though i think we cam greatly improve on our values.

... it remembers the Australians who died.

Sometimes - rather often, actually - I wonder about you, Seeds.

 

[Seeds]

... it remembers the Australians who died.

Sometimes - rather often, actually - I wonder about you, Seeds.

And why did they die? and how does that death build a nation?

a nation is values and geography and culture. It can never be built off death. Especially a death as moronic as gallipoli.

i feel sympathy for those that died. They were victims in many forms. But they arent our heros. They did not liberate us. They did not protect us. They didnt stand and fight for noble ideals.

 

[Gethelred]

And why did they die? and how does that death build a nation?

a nation is values and geography and culture. It can never be built off death. Especially a death as moronic as gallipoli.

Did you read what I said?

It is a day in which the veterans of multiple wars, those who passed and those who didn't, are remembered by the rest of us. Given how some of these vets were conscripted prior to and until Vietnam, I think that it's rather unfair to deride that day as simple patriotic bunkum.

I agree as to the strategic idiocy that was the repeated invasions of the Dardenelles by British forces - which we played a component - and I disagree utterly with the nationalistic overtones that accompanies ANZAC day and Remembrance day under a Coalition government, but you'll never get my support for this. These people were denied a future by their government - without a choice - and for that alone they deserve to be remembered if nothing else.

 

[Pessimistic]

I think Australia should be a republic, but I maintain that there is nothing more unAustralian than doing away with a public holiday. I don't care about the logic, or about the way it looks or the political points it scores; I also do not care if the day continues to be called the Queen's Birthday.

I recognise the inherent illogic of such a thing, but Australians are not logical people. And I am very much an Australian.

So what would you do when the Queen dies or steps down? your post suggest 'just keep it' - even though it then goes from an anachronsm to an absurdity

I guess the states will take the lead

 

[Gethelred]

So what would you do when the Queen dies or steps down?

Retain the holiday, as Queen's Birthday. If/when we become a republic, retain it as 'the final british monarch who was head of state of Australia', symbolising and remembering our past.

As stated, I really, really do not care about what the holiday is called.

 

[FRUMPY]

So what would you do when the Queen dies or steps down? your post suggest 'just keep it' - even though it then goes from an anachronsm to an absurdity

I guess the states will take the lead

Kings Holiday on the same weekend.....Its a perfectly placed holiday in the calendar

 

[Pessimistic]

Did you read what I said?

It is a day in which the veterans of multiple wars, those who passed and those who didn't, are remembered by the rest of us. Given how the vast majority of these vets were conscripted prior to and until Vietnam, I think that it's rather unfair to deride that day as simple patriotic bunkum.

I agree as to the strategic idiocy that was the repeated invasions of the Dardenelles by British forces - which we played a component - and I disagree utterly with the nationalistic overtones that accompanies ANZAC day and Remembrance day under a Coalition government, but you'll never get my support for this. These people were denied a future by their government - frequently without a choice - and for that alone they deserve to be remembered if nothing else.

For mine that should be the real reason. its as much an anti war sentiment as a pro military one.

 

[Pessimistic]

Kings Holiday on the same weekend.....Its a perfectly placed holiday in the calendar

Its different in each state and not actually her birthday. Does it not seem ludicrous to anyone? I doubt even Scomo would put in place the mechanism to declare a "kings Birthday"

 

[Pessimistic]

Retain the holiday, as Queen's Birthday. If/when we become a republic, retain it as 'the final british monarch who was head of state of Australia', symbolising and remembering our past.

Its not our past

 

[Gethelred]

Its not our past

???

How so?

 

[FRUMPY]

Its different in each state and not actually her birthday. Does it not seem ludicrous to anyone?

Dont give a s**t - keep the holiday, political suicide otherwise

 

[Pessimistic]

???

How so?

As its both listed differently in different states, and non on the actual birthday, what is the symbolism - would make more sense to commemorate her death, when it inevitably comes.
And republicanism WILL follow.

Everyone does realise that will happen? not only this but many constitutional arrangements will need to be 'fixed'

At that point its the Monarchists who are the hunted (legislatively) not the Republicans. at the very least if they do make a change without referendum its a precedent which can be used as republicanism rises

And in the background ardent monarchists will be defending the most Woke one ever - delicious absurdity