Society/Culture The latest in the US Culture War Strategies in Australia - Banning books

[Gralin]

We're very good at importing US culture war issues and strategy in Australia. But we're not doing it without help.

We've seen in the past how the NRA targeted One Nation with money to push for gun law changes.

'We could change Australia': One Nation staff secretly filmed courting NRA

An Al Jazeera investigation created a fake gun lobby group in Australia which covertly recorded meetings between One Nation and powerful players in the US gun lobby, in which the political party sought funding to change Australia's gun laws.

www.abc.net.au

We have the current No Campaign receiving funding from US Christian lobby groups

Indigenous voice: no campaign’s deep links to conservative Christian politics revealed

Exclusive: The no camp employs lobbyists that specialise in conservative Christian campaigning, Guardian Australia can reveal

www.theguardian.com

And now we have the attempts to cancel a book designed to teach teens about sex and consent

Big W has withdrawn Welcome to Sex from its stores to protect staff – but teen sex education can keep young people safe

Yumi Stynes and Melissa Kang’s sex education guide for teens is a topic of hot debate for its frankness. It also provides comprehensive, inclusive sex education that combats misinformation.

theconversation.com

People talk about not in Australia, and we won't become the US but it is very clear that there is a concerted ongoing push to import the issues and strategies used in the US here.

Sky and other Murdoch owned media is constantly pushing the same kind of conservative ideals that we see in the US Bible belt.

We've got many politicians with links to US evangelicalism in politics.

The "debates" around trans people and drag performers, the conservative talking heads that tour here, and now the "groomer" moral panic that anything that teaches kids about sex is bad.

If you've been paying attention to whats happening in the US over the last few months, they've started targeting retail stores, going in and filming themselves destroying "rainbow" merchandise and harassing staff.

This tactic is now being employed here after the success they saw targeting councils to cancel drag story time and other queer events in Melbourne over the past few months.

The person pushing for this book ban is Rachael Wong who's been doing the rounds on radio shows like ABC and 2GB and either not getting questioned or getting supported for her comments, she's from an antitrans group and is now labeling anyone who wants to teach teenagers about sex and consent groomers

The strategy is clear, start with a minority group, target them and build a support base, use that support base to push back against more and more mainstream issues that you don't agree with.

It's been successful in the US and it's getting traction here.

We've started moving from trans people are the issue, to all gay people are the issue, to everything they don't agree with including an actual Doctor with a 20+ year career in adolescent healthcare are the issue and all groomers apparently

 

[owen87]

We're very good at importing US culture war issues and strategy in Australia. But we're not doing it without help.

We've seen in the past how the NRA targeted One Nation with money to push for gun law changes.

'We could change Australia': One Nation staff secretly filmed courting NRA

An Al Jazeera investigation created a fake gun lobby group in Australia which covertly recorded meetings between One Nation and powerful players in the US gun lobby, in which the political party sought funding to change Australia's gun laws.

www.abc.net.au

We have the current No Campaign receiving funding from US Christian lobby groups

Indigenous voice: no campaign’s deep links to conservative Christian politics revealed

Exclusive: The no camp employs lobbyists that specialise in conservative Christian campaigning, Guardian Australia can reveal

www.theguardian.com

And now we have the attempts to cancel a book designed to teach teens about sex and consent

Big W has withdrawn Welcome to Sex from its stores to protect staff – but teen sex education can keep young people safe

Yumi Stynes and Melissa Kang’s sex education guide for teens is a topic of hot debate for its frankness. It also provides comprehensive, inclusive sex education that combats misinformation.

theconversation.com

People talk about not in Australia, and we won't become the US but it is very clear that there is a concerted ongoing push to import the issues and strategies used in the US here.

Sky and other Murdoch owned media is constantly pushing the same kind of conservative ideals that we see in the US Bible belt.

We've got many politicians with links to US evangelicalism in politics.

The "debates" around trans people and drag performers, the conservative talking heads that tour here, and now the "groomer" moral panic that anything that teaches kids about sex is bad.

If you've been paying attention to whats happening in the US over the last few months, they've started targeting retail stores, going in and filming themselves destroying "rainbow" merchandise and harassing staff.

This tactic is now being employed here after the success they saw targeting councils to cancel drag story time and other queer events in Melbourne over the past few months.

The person pushing for this book ban is Rachael Wong who's been doing the rounds on radio shows like ABC and 2GB and either not getting questioned or getting supported for her comments, she's from an antitrans group and is now labeling anyone who wants to teach teenagers about sex and consent groomers

The strategy is clear, start with a minority group, target them and build a support base, use that support base to push back against more and more mainstream issues that you don't agree with.

It's been successful in the US and it's getting traction here.

We've started moving from trans people are the issue, to all gay people are the issue, to everything they don't agree with including an actual Doctor with a 20+ year career in adolescent healthcare are the issue and all groomers apparently

The US is an easier market for these ideas, so they beta test their strategies there then use the ones that work over here.

Mind you, dismissing genuine concerns is also not the solution. These strategies are very good at piggybacking off things people are genuinely concerned about, that could be better addressed with education.

 

[Gralin]

The US is an easier market for these ideas, so they beta test their strategies there then use the ones that work over here.

Mind you, dismissing genuine concerns is also not the solution. These strategies are very good at piggybacking off things people are genuinely concerned about, that could be better addressed with education.

Look there is a section of the community that is against kids learning about sex that I think no amount of education will do anything about.

There are certainly people that can be reached but currently the problem is we don't do anything to stop this from happening to begin with and we don't do anything to combat it when it does occur.

The answer this year has been, cave to the demands of the angry people and shut down events and remove products from shelves.

This book is education but none of that matters when the moral panic is whipped up, they aren't appealing to the rational brain here

They'll go wherever their message can be heard and tell lies, how do you combat that, because that's the battle.

You can't combat misinformation with education in real time, you can't debunk misinfo in real time either, it takes a hell of a lot more effort to do so and you certainly can't debate someone determined to lie.

Our media platforms this sort of stuff all the time without any pushback against what is said, with no expert to oppose the views.

You don't want your kid to read the book? Fine don't buy it for them. Going into stores that stock it and threatening staff though to try and get it removed, that's a whole different issue.

And its not like this wasn't coming, this has been happening for a while overseas and there have been other attempts to get books banned in Australia this year, most notably a graphic novel about growing up queer in America


Genuine concerns are a problem because that's the argument used by the bigot, that they have genuine concerns, that its about kids safety.

While they campaign for something that makes kids less safe.

They'll frame it as something its not to get their way.

I'm not sure I'd let my kid read that - easy enough to take as genuine whether its something you agree with or not

I've read the book and this section, this topic, this graphic, whatever is something I don't think is age appropriate prior to xx - easy enough to take as genuine whether its something you agree with or not

but inciting people to go into stores and threaten violence if the book isn't removed, calling the authors groomers for writing a book for teens about sex, relationships and consent? I don't care if their reasons for that are "genuine or not" they're dangerous

you have to draw the line somewhere as to what is genuine and what isn't, what is perhaps a lack of education and what is hate/ideology/bigotry etc

 

[owen87]

Look there is a section of the community that is against kids learning about sex that I think no amount of education will do anything about.

There are certainly people that can be reached but currently the problem is we don't do anything to stop this from happening to begin with and we don't do anything to combat it when it does occur.

The answer this year has been, cave to the demands of the angry people and shut down events and remove products from shelves.

This book is education but none of that matters when the moral panic is whipped up, they aren't appealing to the rational brain here

They'll go wherever their message can be heard and tell lies, how do you combat that, because that's the battle.

You can't combat misinformation with education in real time, you can't debunk misinfo in real time either, it takes a hell of a lot more effort to do so and you certainly can't debate someone determined to lie.

Our media platforms this sort of stuff all the time without any pushback against what is said, with no expert to oppose the views.

You don't want your kid to read the book? Fine don't buy it for them. Going into stores that stock it and threatening staff though to try and get it removed, that's a whole different issue.

And its not like this wasn't coming, this has been happening for a while overseas and there have been other attempts to get books banned in Australia this year, most notably a graphic novel about growing up queer in America


Genuine concerns are a problem because that's the argument used by the bigot, that they have genuine concerns, that its about kids safety.

While they campaign for something that makes kids less safe.

They'll frame it as something its not to get their way.

I'm not sure I'd let my kid read that - easy enough to take as genuine whether its something you agree with or not

I've read the book and this section, this topic, this graphic, whatever is something I don't think is age appropriate prior to xx - easy enough to take as genuine whether its something you agree with or not

but inciting people to go into stores and threaten violence if the book isn't removed, calling the authors groomers for writing a book for teens about sex, relationships and consent? I don't care if their reasons for that are "genuine or not" they're dangerous

you have to draw the line somewhere as to what is genuine and what isn't, what is perhaps a lack of education and what is hate/ideology/bigotry etc

Holy wall of text Batman...

Educating parents on why kids needs to learn about sex is actually something we need to do better at. Not because of gay people or trans people or paedophiles, but because it's actually important.

Educating kids on what sex and sexual contact is allows them to identify if they're being touched inappropriately for example, or avoid making choices that lead to teenage pregnancies. There's a lot of value in it irrespective of the gay or transgender community.

I agree that it shouldn't get to the point of people coming in and threatening staff, but I can understand why stores then take things off the shelves to avoid it.

The nuff nuffs on social media and on things like Sky News love to whip people up in to a frenzy and wink wink nudge nudge them in to hostile action, then claim they weren't doing anything of the sort.

 

[Gralin]

Holy wall of text Batman...

Educating parents on why kids needs to learn about sex is actually something we need to do better at. Not because of gay people or trans people or paedophiles, but because it's actually important.

Educating kids on what sex and sexual contact is allows them to identify if they're being touched inappropriately for example, or avoid making choices that lead to teenage pregnancies. There's a lot of value in it irrespective of the gay or transgender community.

I agree that it shouldn't get to the point of people coming in and threatening staff, but I can understand why stores then take things off the shelves to avoid it.

The nuff nuffs on social media and on things like Sky News love to whip people up in to a frenzy and wink wink nudge nudge them in to hostile action, then claim they weren't doing anything of the sort.

I 100% agree educating parents and kids is a good thing, adults that aren't in either group also.

my point originally wasn't that this is a trans rights or gay rights issue, but that the base for this latest attack is coming from a movement that was grown via attacking trans rights, then drag queens, then the wider queer community, and now they've moved onto the more mainstream attacks.

but the whole way through they've called their targets sexual predators, groomers and pedophiles.

so when people say its just a minor issue or its not about x or its an American problem etc I think they're missing the end game of these movements

this stuff is much more linked because the money and strategy and rhetoric is based on a group with a much larger end game

so I'd say separate your ring leaders from the followers as a starting point when talking about education and genuine concern because the former definitely aren't interested and the latter you can maybe reach depending on how and why they got into the movement.

stochastic terrorism is bread and butter of the conservative outrage machine as you have pointed out, because it works well because it taps into the bigotry that exists in people

I'm not saying don't stop trying to educate people, but also don't get caught up in the idea that education alone is enough.

 

[HurleyHepsHird]

Big W removes sex education book from shelves after staff members abused

Publisher of Welcome to Sex by Dr Melissa Kang and Yumi Stynes defends book after conservative campaigners claim it is ‘teaching sex to children’

www.theguardian.com

The real cancel culture.

Shifting to harrassment of Target and Dymocks staff now it seems.

Not long after using intimidation and violence into forcing a number of local councils into shutting down pride events.

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

Apparently the book can be ordered on line. Apparently* the knuckleheads are targeting Dymocks next.

Time for some peaceful demos outside churches especially Sunday School warning of the dangers some clerics pose for children and young people?

 

[bzparkes]

Interesting way this book is being portrayed in some media outlets.

I read somewhere that it was being marketed to kids as young as 8(can't remember where), whereas most sources cite the book as being aimed to kids around 12-15 years old.

One thing that always amuses me about the 'right' is that they freak out about sex-education, yet seem to have many instances of teen pregnancies(because they tend not to engage in proper sex-ed, who'd have thought?) and flame the 'left' for 'grooming' yet if you look at a lot of laws in the USA in particular, they do a lot to not protect underage girls from being preyed on by older men.

Who's the groomer now?

 

[cartwright]

Interesting way this book is being portrayed in some media outlets.

I read somewhere that it was being marketed to kids as young as 8(can't remember where), whereas most sources cite the book as being aimed to kids around 12-15 years old.

One thing that always amuses me about the 'right' is that they freak out about sex-education, yet seem to have many instances of teen pregnancies(because they tend not to engage in proper sex-ed, who'd have thought?) and flame the 'left' for 'grooming' yet if you look at a lot of laws in the USA in particular, they do a lot to not protect underage girls from being preyed on by older men.

Who's the groomer now?

This is the right peddling misinformation.

Yumi Stynes is quoted saying she'd "be happy with a mature eight-year-old having a flick through". Many critics are using this to say the book is targeted at readers as young as eight.

A teen sex ed book has been removed from Big W shelves to protect staff from abuse. This is what's actually inside

Yumi Stynes and Melissa Kang's sex education guide for teens is a topic of hot debate for its frankness. It also provides comprehensive, inclusive sex education that combats misinformation.

www.abc.net.au

 

[_Mike_]

Marketing of the book, nothing wrong with sex educational books however it must be age appropriate IMO.

 

[Gralin]

Marketing of the book, nothing wrong with sex educational books however it must be age appropriate IMO.

It's definitely aimed at teens, but some sections of the book would be fine for tweens with parental supervision

It does depend on your kid obviously, some are going to need the education younger than others but that's the whole point of having the book available and letting people decide for themselves.

This wasn't marketed at primary school kids, this whole uproar was started by a conservative content creator in Sydney who has some real bangers on his twitter



Always interesting when someone defending Andrew Tate, who is anti abortion and thinks womens jobs should be raising families wants to take offense to a book on consent and sexual education....

 

[Ray Jay Johnson]

This is really just another example of the fundamentalist christian arm of the anti-everything (vax, trans, drag,etc) protest movement using their buzzwords to whip up the rest of movement to get what they want. If you listen to is said at their protests or in their social media outrage posts, under the guise of 'grooming' and 'protecting their kids', it always comes back to 'people need to embrace god and jesus'.

The people leading the charge for this kind of culture war basically just want things to go back to the old days when they could do what they want, minority's shut up and knew their place, people stayed in the closet or copped a beating and kids didnt know about sex until they were knocked up by some other moron and they could be shipped off to their grandparents so the parents didn't have to explain their teenagers weight gain.

 

[Gralin]

The good news currently is the book is selling out everywhere online

 

[bzparkes]

Always interesting when someone defending Andrew Tate, who is anti abortion and thinks womens jobs should be raising families wants to take offense to a book on consent and sexual education....

Well, this is entirely unsurprising, because if young girls are more aware of what consent is, half these blokes would never get laid...

 

[Gough]

I'd have this sort of book would probably leave kids better placed to identify people trying to groom them. Nobody is forcing these people to buy it in the first place anyway.

 

[Gralin]

We really need a better answer to the abuse and threats of workers than capitulating to what they want though.

All it does is encourage them to keep doing it.

 

[schneebly111]

One thing that always amuses me about the 'right' is that they freak out about sex-education, yet seem to have many instances of teen pregnancies(because they tend not to engage in proper sex-ed, who'd have thought?) and flame the 'left' for 'grooming' yet if you look at a lot of laws in the USA in particular, they do a lot to not protect underage girls from being preyed on by older men.

Check out the subreddits “Not A Drag Queen” and “Pastor Arrested” on Reddit. Very telling.

The Conversation had a good article up showing how Yumi’s book isn’t dissimilar to a popular sex ed book that has been used in school and freely available in libraries since the 70s. I had a flick through a sex ed book available to me in the 90s and while more text based it included explanations of various sex acts including anal.

Where I think the current RW outrage stems from is this book caters to LGBT people as equal to non-LGBT people. And acknowledges that sex can be primarily for pleasure not procreation. This pisses off the moralists somewhat.

This wasn't marketed at primary school kids, this whole uproar was started by a conservative content creator in Sydney who has some real bangers on his twitter

And that blogger is a convicted criminal too. I didn’t see Ben Fordham mention that when he promotes his content and says we should follow his lead on “protecting kids”.

 

[Rusty Brookes]

Check out the subreddits “Not A Drag Queen” and “Pastor Arrested” on Reddit. Very telling.

The Conversation had a good article up showing how Yumi’s book isn’t dissimilar to a popular sex ed book that has been used in school and freely available in libraries since the 70s. I had a flick through a sex ed book available to me in the 90s and while more text based it included explanations of various sex acts including anal.

Where I think the current RW outrage stems from is this book caters to LGBT people as equal to non-LGBT people. And acknowledges that sex can be primarily for pleasure not procreation. This pisses off the moralists somewhat.



And that blogger is a convicted criminal too. I didn’t see Ben Fordham mention that when he promotes his content and says we should follow his lead on “protecting kids”.

"Where did I come from" was the book and yes we all had it as kids.

BTW research consistently shows sensible and accurate sex education and information leads to lower teen pregnancy, lower rates of STDs and lower rates of sexual abuse.

What a terrible thing to aim for.

Comprehensive Sexuality Education

www.acog.org

 

[owen87]

BTW research consistently shows sensible and accurate sex education and information leads to lower teen pregnancy, lower rates of STDs and lower rates of sexual abuse.

Conservative Americans definitely don't want to reduce any of these things, they want their pregnancies early and frequent, believe in no sex before marriage so STDs are simply a sign of impurity, and sexual abuse doesn't count except when drag queens or gays do it.

 

[Gralin]

Conservative Americans definitely don't want to reduce any of these things, they want their pregnancies early and frequent, believe in no sex before marriage so STDs are simply a sign of impurity, and sexual abuse doesn't count except when drag queens or gays do it.

Good old America hey




gee I wonder why they don't like teens being taught about consent

 

[evolved2]

Good old America hey

View attachment 1757040


gee I wonder why they don't like teens being taught about consent

View attachment 1757044

I don't see why an 18yr old and 17yr old couple shouldn't be married if they choose to be. What do you think?

 

[Gralin]

I don't see why an 18yr old and 17yr old couple shouldn't be married if they choose to be. What do you think?

That they can wait a year

 

[Gethelred]

Yeah, nah.

This thread is about banning books, drives by right wing people importing culture war strategies from the US. It is not about consent.

All posts on this line of conversation will be moved. Let's return to the thread topic, please.

 

[Gough]

Any time the idiot libertarians spit ball an idea of some sort of brotopia where they all can sit around and sniff each other's farts nothing gets them at each other's threats quicker than debate around the age of consent.

 

[Spearman]