List Mgmt. 2021 Trade Thread - Part I

George · Aug 22, 2021

Delisted;
-

Traded;
-

Retired;
Jake Carlisle
Shaun McKernan

Current Players Out of Contract;
3. Zak Jones - Link
6. Sebastian Ross (RFA) - Link
7. Luke Dunstan (RFA) - Link
13. Jack Lonie - Link
15. Jack Billings (RFA) - Link
18. Patrick Ryder - Link
24. James Frawley - Link
25. Dean Kent - Link
38. Oscar Clavarino - Link
39. Darragh Joyce - Link
41. Paul Hunter - Link
42. Max Heath - Link
45. Sam Alabakis - Link

To see the full list (it gets updated regularly) visit this thread;

List & Contract Status

SENIOR LIST 1. Jack Higgins 2. Marcus Windhager 3. Zak Jones 4. Lance Collard 5. Brad Crouch 6. Sebastian Ross 7. Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera 8. Bradley Hill 9. Jack Steele 10. Mitchito Owens 11. Hunter Clark 12. Max King 13. Ryan Byrnes 14. Liam Stocker 15. Paddy Dow 16. Daniel Butler 17. Isaac...

www.bigfooty.com

MrFoster · Jun 16, 2021

D2D3 said:
Agree he's not Goddard or Dal, but even the McEvoy trade turned out not to be worth it, and he wasn't quite a star with us yet. I hope you're right about the compo pick if it happens. I'm imagining it as an end of first round or second round (so about the same as Goddard or Dal) but if it does end up straight after our first round pick I'd be more okay with it.

The McEVoy trade was more down to our inept drafting.. we turned pick 3, 18, 19 into Billings, Dunstan and Acres.. Change Dunstan into 1 or 2 of Crouch, Merrett, we would be laughing..

gringo2011 · Jun 16, 2021

MrFoster said:
The McEVoy trade was more down to our inept drafting.. we turned pick 3, 18, 19 into Billings, Dunstan and Acres.. Change Dunstan into 1 or 2 of Crouch, Merrett, we would be laughing..

So what lesson did we learn there? Not much I'd suggest, we still have his understudy in the role and only after a begrudging sacking after trying to give him an even more responsible job first. Saints Footy.

Traded away Rhys Stanley to get Hugh Goddard and blew pick one on Paddy and pick 22 on Mc Kenzie. I know I'm like a depressing loser on here but **** me dead we've done some stupid shit.

pebblesofsand · Jun 16, 2021

SaintsSeptember said:
It kind of bugs me the way people carry on about the f/s stuff.

Assume we end up 5th bottom.
We get the 5th pick in the draft but Daicos and Darcy are off the table.
Bid on Darcy pick 1.
We still get the 5th non Darcy-Daicos pick in the draft even if its 6th.

I think King is one of those who doesn't understand how the compensation system works.
Does he really think that Billings should get a contract valued amongst the top 5% of AFL players?

Also , i wish StKilda would be careful with all of their draft picks always.

Billings is currently in the top 50 of all players, so he already in the top 5%.

Being 26, he actually is rated even higher when compo is being assessed.

If another club offered 4 years around his existing contract it would be enough.

MrFoster · Jun 16, 2021

gringo2011 said:
So what lesson did we learn there? Not much I'd suggest, we still have his understudy in the role and only after a begrudging sacking after trying to give him an even more responsible job first. Saints Footy.

Yes, I agree this trying to “outsmart” everyone by drafting high potential but high risk players have not served us well.. If you want mids, then draft players who are actual mids.. Mckenzie, Acres, wright for example.. imagine if we had recruitment of Geelong/Brisbane/Port/Sydney/Bulldog/Richmond system, but then again Richo would still have turned them into effort only/tackling first headless chooks

You need good people in all parts of the organisation..

Winmar2Lockett · Jun 16, 2021

StCicatriz said:
that's still a terrible trade

I don't think it is actually.

Hilly has been hot & cold whereas Douglas has been fantastic. An elite tall defender with 7-8 in the tank and leadership in spades.

For a 1st rounder, a 2nd rounder, some junk picks and a fringe player.

The Jack · Jun 16, 2021

SaintsSeptember said:
It kind of bugs me the way people carry on about the f/s stuff.

Assume we end up 5th bottom.
We get the 5th pick in the draft but Daicos and Darcy are off the table.
Bid on Darcy pick 1.
We still get the 5th non Darcy-Daicos pick in the draft even if its 6th.

I think King is one of those who doesn't understand how the compensation system works.
Does he really think that Billings should get a contract valued amongst the top 5% of AFL players?

Also , i wish StKilda would be careful with all of their draft picks always.

.

What shits me is that if you finish 5th last you SHOULD have access to one of the 5 best kids in the land. Simple fact is you don’t and it gets worse the further out your pick is.

Winmar2Lockett · Jun 16, 2021

MrFoster said:
Yes, I agree this trying to “outsmart” everyone by drafting high potential but high risk players have not served us well.. If you want mids, then draft players who are actual mids.. Mckenzie, Acres, wright for example.. imagine if we had recruitment of Geelong/Brisbane/Port/Sydney/Bulldog/Richmond system, but then again Richo would still have turned them into effort only/tackling first headless chooks You need good people in all parts of the organisation..

None of those players selected were 'high risk'. They were all predictable, possibly slightly boring selections but all expected to go at around the picks they went at.

Dmac was the only outlier. The recruiting team had agreed to take Touk Miller, Trout made the McKenzie call on his own. Even he was in the mix to be taken from the mid teens onward.

tomjoad · Jun 16, 2021

mad-saint-guy said:
Is Ben King really a priority? I'd take him but IMO we are in much more desperate need of skillful, ball-winning mids and a key defender. The price for King would be something along the lines of 2 first rounders and Josh Battle. If we could convince Kelly or Merrett to come then I'd be willing to pay that price, but we have more urgent holes to fill. The two Kings really only fit in the team if we plan on using Marshall as the number one ruck as well. Unless Ben is willing to stop kicking goals and go into defence.

At the moment I'd try putting Max into defence. Ben can clearly get the ball between the big sticks so why tamper with a proven asset. Regarding Max though, a temporary defensive shift for the remainder of the year might help him read the game a little better, and free him up...and more importantly provide an aerial target (especially if we persist with Doogs kicking out)

tomjoad · Jun 16, 2021

D2D3 said:
Part of me thinks letting him go would be a good move. Then I remember how well letting our other quality players go has gone for us. I really don't think the one extra draft pick we'd get for him will save us. Surely there are other ways we could get back into (at least) the seconbd round of the draft.

It would be a temporary step backwards losing Billings (even I can admit that, and he does my head in) I suppose if we lost him we would hope that Hill becomes more consistent (in a good way) and we'd maybe put Sincs on the other wing. But the wings are not the issue. We need smarter forwards...and that is where we would lose out by trading Billings...that is where he's damaging (occasionally)

Remboy · Jun 16, 2021

Winmar2Lockett said:
I don't think it is actually.

Hilly has been hot & cold whereas Douglas has been fantastic. An elite tall defender with 7-8 in the tank and leadership in spades.

For a 1st rounder, a 2nd rounder, some junk picks and a fringe player.

Didn’t we also get Ryder thrown in with Dougs?

gringo2011 · Jun 16, 2021

Winmar2Lockett said:
I don't think it is actually.

Hilly has been hot & cold whereas Douglas has been fantastic. An elite tall defender with 7-8 in the tank and leadership in spades.

For a 1st rounder, a 2nd rounder, some junk picks and a fringe player.

Howard was separate, we traded one higher pick for two later FRD picks and used one on Howard. Hill still cost pick 10, a second and extras and was a poor trade no matter how much you try to push them together. Hill has been a terrible trade. Even for just pick 10 its truely poor. Go back and look who was taken after pick 10 in that draft. It makes you want to cry. Kosi Pickett, Flanders, Brodie Kemp, Weightman, Georgiades, Robertson, Trent Rivers etc. It was an incredible draft and some of those players are already ahead of Hill.

gringo2011 · Jun 16, 2021

tomjoad said:
It would be a temporary step backwards losing Billings (even I can admit that, and he does my head in) I suppose if we lost him we would hope that Hill becomes more consistent (in a good way) and we'd maybe put Sincs on the other wing. But the wings are not the issue. We need smarter forwards...and that is where we would lose out by trading Billings...that is where he's damaging (occasionally)

I think we have to go backwards to go forward in all honesty. Even the club is suggesting that we wait until King is in his peak before having too many expectations. Realistically he's probably going to develop at the Mc Kay pace which means three more years to get the rest of it right. If we don't do that we'll still be shit but with one good player. Might as well start to ship out some older good players now and hope they don't **** up again but for my sanity I've stopped hoping to improve. I'm just accepting that we are a novel club that doesn't do premierships.

Winmar2Lockett · Jun 16, 2021

gringo2011 said:
Howard was separate, we traded one higher pick for two later FRD picks and used one on Howard. Hill still cost pick 10, a second and extras and was a poor trade no matter how much you try to push them together. Hill has been a terrible trade. Even for just pick 10 its truely poor. Go back and look who was taken after pick 10 in that draft. It makes you want to cry. Kosi Pickett, Flanders, Brodie Kemp, Weightman, Georgiades, Robertson, Trent Rivers etc. It was an incredible draft and some of those players are already ahead of Hill.

I know you love opposition players but I’m not crying too much over any of those names… maybe outside of Pickett. I definitely don’t think you could describe that as an incredible draft. Its promising at this point but its no 2001, 2018, etc.

Yes Doug was separate but it was still part of a trade period where we split our 1st, got 2 back & got those deals done.

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gringo2011 · Jun 16, 2021

Winmar2Lockett said:
I know you love opposition players but I’m not crying too much over any of those names… maybe outside of Pickett. I definitely don’t think you could describe that as an incredible draft. Its promising at this point but its no 2001, 2018, etc.

Yes Doug was separate but it was still part of a trade period where we split our 1st, got 2 back & got those deals done.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'd trade Hill for half of those guys. We could have had Dougal and a draftee and had a bit of old and bit of new. Hill hasn't worked out at all. I can see why we chased him, we were desperate for a big name and he was available.

I have no problem with having a go but it's a fail and talking it up just makes me annoyed with them. Howard was good though, he didn't look like someone worth a FRDP when we got him but he's been very good. We have to start drafting and not getting them so wrong. I don't rate Allison with our FRDP last year and so already worry about Libba but hopefully he's better next time. Highmore looks good but a weird choice seeing as he wasn't a need but I'm guessing he's being given a brief.

tomjoad · Jun 16, 2021

gringo2011 said:
I think we have to go backwards to go forward in all honesty. Even the club is suggesting that we wait until King is in his peak before having too many expectations. Realistically he's probably going to develop at the Mc Kay pace which means three more years to get the rest of it right. If we don't do that we'll still be sh*t but with one good player. Might as well start to ship out some older good players now and hope they don't fu** up again but for my sanity I've stopped hoping to improve. I'm just accepting that we are a novel club that doesn't do premierships.

Three years time, guys like Sincs, Hill, Jones (If physically able) Crouch, Steele will be tipping 30. Marshall should be in his prime and hopefully Gresh can get it together. Really though, it just proves our need for young mids. Bytel and Byrne's is simply not enough.
I agree with you re waiting for a St.Kilda premiership

...all it does it anger the mind. I dream lower these days, I'd be happy with semi regular finals contention.

BrutThough · Jun 16, 2021

tomjoad said:
Three years time, guys like Sincs, Hill, Jones (If physically able) Crouch, Steele will be tipping 30. Marshall should be in his prime and hopefully Gresh can get it together. Really though, it just proves our need for young mids. Bytel and Byrne's is simply not enough.
I agree with you re waiting for a St.Kilda premiership ...all it does it anger the mind. I dream lower these days, I'd be happy with semi regular finals contention.

Marshall is the same age as Sinclair, Steele and Jones. All taken in different drafts but born in the same year.

tomjoad · Jun 16, 2021

BrutThough said:
Marshall is the same age as Sinclair, Steele and Jones. All taken in different drafts but born in the same year.

So all of them will be around the 29 to 30 age group. Not that this is a bad thing. The bigger fellah's like Marshall tend to last a bit longer and will (hopefully) be good for another few years, where as the other lads will be at the height of their powers but at the tipping point where the niggles start to kick in...especially guys that rely on their speed like Hill & Jones.

EWarren2017 · Jun 16, 2021

Ephemeral Hope said:
Sean Darcy quietly underrated this season. One of the top ruckmen and he’s only 23. That’s a couple years younger than Marshall, he’s posting numbers and averages better than Nic Nat and Ryder in some areas. Could play the Ryder role alongside Marshall for 10+ years! What do we need to get him?

Going to the cats

gringo2011 · Jun 16, 2021

tomjoad said:
So all of them will be around the 29 to 30 age group. Not that this is a bad thing. The bigger fellah's like Marshall tend to last a bit longer and will (hopefully) be good for another few years, where as the other lads will be at the height of their powers but at the tipping point where the niggles start to kick in...especially guys that rely on their speed like Hill & Jones.

Jones particularly has always been pretty fragile I can see him ending his career early. Gresham will go either way after missing so much footy he either has a longer career or he has a shorter than average career because of injury. Hill should still be going on his contract though and he's pretty resillient.

Diehard Saint · Jun 16, 2021

Winmar2Lockett said:
Many scoffed at the thought that Chip would get Melbourne band 1

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That was a complete rort by the AFL. No way he should have gotten pick 3 for the Dees.
It was a very, very thinly veiled priority pick.

EWarren2017 · Jun 16, 2021

g_TRAIN said:
It's not going to be 2 first-rounders for Bing, it's probably closer to 3.

Basically, the Sun's future almost depends on him, they will build their team around him for 15 years. They have had enough 1st round draft picks. They have found a future superstar and they will do everything possible to keep him.

Nope not if he wants out.

EWarren2017 · Jun 16, 2021

CursingFijian said:
Maybe we already have someone lined up? Thinking McAsey.

Signed a contract

The_Snake26 · Jun 16, 2021

gringo2011 said:
So what lesson did we learn there? Not much I'd suggest, we still have his understudy in the role and only after a begrudging sacking after trying to give him an even more responsible job first. Saints Footy.

Traded away Rhys Stanley to get Hugh Goddard and blew pick one on Paddy and pick 22 on Mc Kenzie. I know I'm like a depressing loser on here but fu** me dead we've done some stupid sh*t.

Could never work out why we didn’t take Miller that year. McKenzie tested off the charts at the combine in a few key catergories. Just a pity his athletic attributes are way beyond his football ability.
we also got screwed in the 2013 draft. Hogan and Martin went in the mini draft the year before. Both of those players in normal circumstances would’ve been drafted in the 2013 draft. They changed the rules for two years. We could’ve ended up with Kelly if not for that
Reckon we should just do a fan poll for this years draft. Take the player with the most votes. I guarantee the success rate would be higher than our recruiters

EWarren2017 · Jun 16, 2021

stavro#4 said:
We only get screwed over if Collingwood finish below us as they don’t own their pick - GWS do.

so effectively (based-on current ladder position)

Daicos - Pies
Horne - Roos
Hawks pick
Gws pick
Suns pick
Carlton pick
Stkilda pick

We will finish below blues possibly Collingwood (gws)

EWarren2017 · Jun 16, 2021

stavro#4 said:
We only get screwed over if Collingwood finish below us as they don’t own their pick - GWS do.

so effectively (based-on current ladder position)

Daicos - Pies
Horne - Roos
Hawks pick
Gws pick
Suns pick
Carlton pick
Stkilda pick

So more like

Daicos - Pies
Horne - Roos
Hawks pick
Suns pick
Saints pick

so pick 4-5

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