List Mgmt. 2021 Draft picks: 4/33/75

[Deaneus!]

thanks to Lore as always

AFL Draft Pick Value Calculator - Draftguru

 

[Rory Walkerfield]

Can someone explain to how Collingwood traded out their 2021 first and second rounder? I thought you could do that with future picks. Ie you can either trade your first but have to keep your others, or trade the others but keep your first?

 

[Scorpus]

Can someone explain to how Collingwood traded out their 2021 first and second rounder? I thought you could do that with future picks. Ie you can either trade your first but have to keep your others, or trade the others but keep your first?

They traded in a second round pick from the Bulldogs in the Treloar deal to replace the 2nd rounder they traded out

 

[DJ75]

If collingwood want daicos and to pick up the compulsory 6 picks over the next two seasons or whatever, how are they going to manage that?? Wouldn't want to be their list manager this year.

VFL will change the rules - just like they did for Geelong. They will not be held to account.

 

[Rory Walkerfield]

VFL will change the rules - just like they did for Geelong. They will not be held to account.

Atleast Geelong could point to their sustained success as to why they deserved dispensation.

 

[hey shorty]

The mentality of a s**t club is an arrogant president and the boys club who choose not to face reality and destroy a team and list through incompetence.
The AFL have designed a socialist system and you can ignore it and fail or work with it for a chance at success.
The modern era was built on F/S gifts, PP, COLA payments and now FA & Academy hand outs.

The club made to choice to go to the bottom and sort of cleaned out the list to reset which some supporters had been saying was required and if your going to go there might as well do it properly.

While pick 2-7 maybe be even its our second pick and compo pick for MCrouch that is affected greatly.

Pick 21 & 22 vs Pick 26 & 27 has a significant effect on the following scenarios
1. Best available in 2nd round of draft
2. Trying to trade up for a 1st rounder
3. Trading for an established player
4. Future picks genuinely valued more.

Losing is still a mentality of a shit club

 

[GreyCrow]

Pick 21 & 22 vs Pick 26 & 27 has a significant effect on the following scenarios
1. Best available in 2nd round of draft
2. Trying to trade up for a 1st rounder
3. Trading for an established player
4. Future picks genuinely valued more.

Pick 21/22 and a future 2nd is a good carrot to dangle in front of West Coast or Sydney

Both currently on pick 12/13 with their 2nd pick low 30s.

Sydney with academy would like that future proofing

Something to look at anyway

 

[1970crow]

We can't really help them get points in any case.

No wonder they're trying to drum up sympathy for their draft this year - they have pick 17 and then 72 and later, about 1000 points worth and would need 2400 to match a bid at pick 1 (or even ~2000 at pick 2) ... and we were the prime cause of that last year

They could maybe trade (on current picks) 17 to Tigers for 26, 30, 42 & 48, or to Cats for 27, 28 & 33 - and they'd still be short of points. Will probably also need to trade out a player.

Trading for their 2022 picks would be risk free. Reasonably valued as very late, ie 18/36... , so the worst you can do is get actual value. If they shit the bed in 2022 could pick up a big premium. So give them a premium on pick 18 points value in 2021 fir their 2022 first. Could get lucky.

 

[1970crow]

Thilthorpe still got a $5k cheque.

Bevo is one of the biggest w@nkers in the entire AFL. Just a complete flog.

I like the Dogs, they're my second team. Can't stand Bevo though, but Bont more than makes up for that ill will.

 

[1970crow]

Can someone explain to me the logic of some board members wanting the higher pick even though our clear target (Horne) is unachievable? I think the difference between pick #2 and #5-6 is personal preference. Is there even a clear #2 or #3 ? It seems like all I hear about is a clear #1 in Horne. So then why would you want to lose to get number#2 or #3 when the guy we want will probably still be there at #5? I get trading down, but you don't celebrate on a board week in week out over trading down for a late first.

"late first"? We trading down 8nto the teens now? The way it works is that lower is better. It gives you the opportunity to pick up free assets if you have a group you can't split or in the same situation you can align factors like needs or local along with talent as more of the unsplittable players will still be on the table at the earlier pick. It's a no brainer, desperately seeking wins to finish mid table outside the 8 is for supporters with no idea.

 

[1970crow]

Geez. Imagine being Collingwood list manager. You would have had pick 4 to cover a bid from Daicos. You would have been able to split that pick for points and probably had change. Meaning you’d be able to go to the draft and get Daicos plus have your early second rounder.

Instead they’ll be short points and either trading out players or their 2022 second for points.

I'm not sure what they'd need to get the 2400 required, but if you could trade out a couple of 3rds this year for their second next year you'd be doing ok business.

 

[1970crow]

Losing is still a mentality of a sh*t club

There's a difference between losing and enjoying it or not caring and/or learning from it. We'll never descend to that mentality as our board's stated goal is to make finals each year. We still haven't had a coach survive 2 years out of finals but I do feel that's about to change. Nicks gets more time as he inherited a spoon group from Pyke.

 

[rabidcrow]

That's my point though. So all the members who are celebrating with every loss and saying we're closer to the bottom are doing this for a trade down. It's the mentality of a sh*t club

North clearly need a tall forward (stupid to have not taken McDonald last year) so if one starts to shine in the championships or back half of the year they may go in a different direction. Good performances with encouraging losses are fine - provided we get the club building wins like Geelong, Melbourne and Saints along the way


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[skittlebrew]

Thilthorpe still got a $5k cheque.

Bevo is one of the biggest w@nkers in the entire AFL. Just a complete flog.

You would think if you made finals two years running and somehow had access to the best talent 2 years in a row you would find a way to shut your midget mouth.

Especially given the systems that made you eligible to access said players were unfair, inequitable, and not present in any other sport.

 

[70lethal]

Losing is still a mentality of a sh*t club

Not exactly true as context is required. Nicks ain't saying lets lose and that's the only thing that matters. But he will play kids knowing it may reduce the number of wins in the short term.

Businesses sometimes have to lose money to go forward, buildings often have to be stripped back before renovated.
Its just a fact a life often you have to go backwards at some stage before moving forward.

Geelong are the only side not to bottom out in the last 25 years. They did many things well but benefitted hugely from F/S so this highlights each clubs turn will come. The system is designed for it to happen.

The dogs should be able to create a dynasty not due to being the best club but through AFL gifts that include Liberatore, Hunter, Wallis, West, JUH, Darcy on the back of Cooney and Griffin who was traded for a match winner in their only GF in 50 years.

Richmond, Hawthorn and Brisbane were all crap before they won their 3 premierships this century.

 

[GrommoT]

Trading for their 2022 picks would be risk free. Reasonably valued as very late, ie 18/36... , so the worst you can do is get actual value. If they sh*t the best in 2022 could pick up a big premium. So give them a premium on pick 18 points value in 2021 fir their 2022 first. Could get lucky.

If I read your post correctly, I think -your- you're suggesting trading our (current) 2021 picks 23 & 41 (1229pts) or 36 & 41 (914pts) for their 2022 round 1 pick? They'd still be short of points to match a pick 1 or 2 bid on Darcy.

It doesn't help us either - we need to draft kids this year and there are some SA mids that sound very promising who might be in the pick 23 range - Hugh Jackson, Hugh Stagg, Isaac, Birt, Kobe Ryan, ... - might be another player at the level we're seeing Pedlar at the moment.

 

[1970crow]

If I read your post correctly, I think your suggesting trading our (current) 2021 picks 23 & 41 (1229pts) or 36 & 41 (914pts) for their 2022 round 1 pick? They'd still be short of points to match a pick 1 or 2 bid on Darcy.

It doesn't help us either - we need to draft kids this year and there are some SA mids that sound very promising who might be in the pick 23 range - Hugh Jackson, Hugh Stagg, Isaac, Birt, Kobe Ryan, ... - might be another player at the level we're seeing Pedlar at the moment.

there might be some additions to our picks if a couple of guys exit via free agency or trade. If the numbers don't work then they don't work. But I'd happily forego a couple of later picks for at worst pick 18ish. That said, I know nothing of the local prospects that might go late.

 

[Shaz2012]

So if Pies get a top 3 pick, and North/Hawks keep them honest then there is a pretty good pick up for grabs. I’d offer our 2022 first. There is a fair chance they look at us and think Tex is a year older and we still have a fair way to go. Personally I think we improve next year.

 

[MarcusP2]

So if Pies get a top 3 pick, and North/Hawks keep them honest then there is a pretty good pick up for grabs. I’d offer our 2022 first. There is a fair chance they look at us and think Tex is a year older and we still have a fair way to go. Personally I think we improve next year.

GWS have pies pick.

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[Scorpus]

So if Pies get a top 3 pick, and North/Hawks keep them honest then there is a pretty good pick up for grabs. I’d offer our 2022 first. There is a fair chance they look at us and think Tex is a year older and we still have a fair way to go. Personally I think we improve next year.

GWS have the Pies pick

 

[Golumless]

Can someone explain to me the logic of some board members wanting the higher pick even though our clear target (Horne) is unachievable? I think the difference between pick #2 and #5-6 is personal preference. Is there even a clear #2 or #3 ? It seems like all I hear about is a clear #1 in Horne. So then why would you want to lose to get number#2 or #3 when the guy we want will probably still be there at #5? I get trading down, but you don't celebrate on a board week in week out over trading down for a late first.

The higher the pick, the more likely you are to get your number #2 guy in our situation, after all there is no guarantee he'll be around at 5. Also the more likely we're to get Horne, as there is no guarantee North follows the consensus (after all, who's to say Norths recruiting brass doesn't like Sinn more, as an example). On top of that it strengthens our 2nd round picks, any compensation we receive from Matt Crouch (should he take FA) which either makes us more compelling to trade up, or gives us better shots at nailing the high end talent we need.

Unfortunately the AFL, like every draft heavy, salary cap league punishes teams who are in certain parts of the table. For our league, the worst places you could finish is 9-12th. You don't get finals, or access to the best talent in the league without concessions. For any team that's KO'd in the finals race (and in Adelaide situation we were KO'd before the season started), whilst it sucks in the short term, the best thing that could happen to your club are highly competitive losses in the mid-to-long term. The worst thing is losses which aren't competitive at all.

 

[Jeffcrowe]

Will also didn't play a lot of U18's as he played mostly school football.

Yep , dominated U18s finals at end of year

 

[1990crow]

Not exactly true as context is required. Nicks ain't saying lets lose and that's the only thing that matters. But he will play kids knowing it may reduce the number of wins in the short term.

Businesses sometimes have to lose money to go forward, buildings often have to be stripped back before renovated.
Its just a fact a life often you have to go backwards at some stage before moving forward.

Geelong are the only side not to bottom out in the last 25 years. They did many things well but benefitted hugely from F/S so this highlights each clubs turn will come. The system is designed for it to happen.

The dogs should be able to create a dynasty not due to being the best club but through AFL gifts that include Liberatore, Hunter, Wallis, West, JUH, Darcy on the back of Cooney and Griffin who was traded for a match winner in their only GF in 50 years.

Richmond, Hawthorn and Brisbane were all crap before they won their 3 premierships this century.

And Melbourne's tanking has resulted in a top 2 finish likely this season.

 

[70lethal]

We could end up with 4 picks in top 30 if Melbourne slide out of the top 4.

 

[Mutineer]

U17.s Vic Country vs Vic Metro over at Bendigo..

 

[Mutineer]