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List Mgmt. 2021 Trade Thread - Part I

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Delisted;
-

Traded;
-

Retired;
Jake Carlisle
Shaun McKernan

Current Players Out of Contract;
3. Zak Jones - Link
6. Sebastian Ross (RFA) - Link
7. Luke Dunstan (RFA) - Link
13. Jack Lonie - Link
15. Jack Billings (RFA) - Link
18. Patrick Ryder - Link
24. James Frawley - Link
25. Dean Kent - Link
38. Oscar Clavarino - Link
39. Darragh Joyce - Link
41. Paul Hunter - Link
42. Max Heath - Link
45. Sam Alabakis - Link


To see the full list (it gets updated regularly) visit this thread;

List & Contract Status

SENIOR LIST 1. Jack Higgins 2. Marcus Windhager 3. Zak Jones 4. Lance Collard 5. Brad Crouch 6. Sebastian Ross 7. Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera 8. Bradley Hill 9. Jack Steele 10. Mitchito Owens 11. Hunter Clark 12. Max King 13. Ryan Byrnes 14. Liam Stocker 15. Paddy Dow 16. Daniel Butler 17. Isaac...
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It's difficult to work out what Battle's value would be. He's contracted, versatile and talented - good value. He's been ****ed around with positioning for two years so has limited recent form and we dropped him before his injury - bad value.
 
botts said:
He’s 195 and 100 kegs. Would say he’s undersized
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well then I'm wrong. Thought he was smaller than that. So he's bigger than Roo was.
What's wrong with him then? Why does Ratts not play him back when we're desperate for a tall back? Why does Sharman get the gig forward after being at the club for 2mins? Mobility is def an issue. I just don't think he's very good and we may as well move him on before he proves it.
 

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#gosaintas said:
well then I'm wrong. Thought he was smaller than that. So he's bigger than Roo was.
What's wrong with him then? Why does Ratts not play him back when we're desperate for a tall back? Why does Sharman get the gig forward after being at the club for 2mins? Mobility is def an issue. I just don't think he's very good and we may as well move him on before he proves it.
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He would of played second half of the year as a key defender but was out for the rest of the year injured
 
g_TRAIN said:
Billings should take a leaf out of the way Gresh moves and plays.
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This.

I think JB had the full weight of the rebuild dropped squarely on his shoulders when he first signed on at the Saints.

I think he might feel like he needs to be a key piston in the engine room. But Steele, Dunstan, Crouch and Jones can bear the majority of that burden now.

We just need him to be an ELITE role player now, preferably around goals.
 
HunterClarksHeadband said:
Forget about Hind... the melts when Battle becomes a serious forward at another club will be crazy. I don’t really wanna trade the kid, he’s only 22 and built to play AFL already - can see exactly why he wants out though.
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The apologists here will say we tried him as a forward and he didn't cut it. Because we gave him a run of what... 3 games there?
 
St Neil said:
I thought band 3 was second round, which would give us picks in the 20s.

Band 1 is first round, band 2 is end of first round.

Crouch ended up as band 3 compensation for Adelaide, which was immediately after their second round pick which was pick 22.

If Ross or Dunstan ended up band 2 compensation then we would be delirious. That would be picks 19-20.

I think I got that right.
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You're absolutely correct. It should have been band 4.
There's an outside chance one or both of them would get band 3 which would be great.

The turd in the ointment is that band 4 will probably fall on the wrong side of our NGA bids so we have to trade them up or out in some way.
 
Sully111 said:
The apologists here will say we tried him as a forward and he didn't cut it. Because we gave him a run of what... 3 games there?
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100% it will happen
 

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sunny3193 said:
But it’s not just next year.
These FA’s are all up for career defining contracts.
So the arguments about them being better than their replacements, or providing depth etc, need to be valid for not just 2022. But 2023, 2024 ….
That’s the crux of the matter.
You, or gringo2011 , or Yawkey way , might very well be justified in your arguments for 2022.
But that position is weakened with each passing year.
We may very well find Bytel and Byrnes move past Ross and Dunstan within 12 months and we are left with very expensive depth for perhaps another two + years. Especially considering that there will be another layer under their replacements from this year’s draft as well.
Billings is a slightly different argument: either his compensation is commensurate with proven output, or we gain a valuable draft pick.
That‘s the risk of accepting the argument supporting the FA’s retention.
The counter argument (ScrappyDo , Mowman etc) of offloading the FA’s loads all the risk into one year: 2022.
Because we currently have the cover for two of them, and potentially another layer under them from this year’s draft, and because we either retain a good player at better cost or else turn him into something more valuable.
Either argument carries risk.
That’s why this discussion is going on so long.

In prior years we were debating whether Jelly would or wouldn’t come.
A much simpler proposition.
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You make some good points but I’m factoring in age and trying to project player development and I still come up with billings as a must keep and ross not far behind him, dunstan I see as expendable.

I won’t rate our young players here for fear of starting another Barney but suffice to say I don‘t project many to be more than good ordinary C grade journeymen. We certainly can’t replace billings and Ross with second rounders or at a discount so yeah I’d show them some love and chuck another 5 - 10 % on their offers to lock them away.

I think we can play finals next year and still have significant list turnover, take our first rounder, two nga players and a trade or two at the lower end and send off the obvious deadwood. With another nga as a rookie that’s at least four young kids in plus any trades more than enough imo. Replacing older deadwood with cost controlled draftees also frees up some cap space looking forward to 2022.
 
Battle is contracted so if we trade him we should get overs.
 
Yawkey way said:
We’ve had a lot of injuries this year but we all know some players have been absolutely carried and others have been pretty stiff. The only message I take at present from our selection policy is if lethers and co recruited you on big coin you’re safe if they didn’t bad luck, arse covering 101.
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This is 💯% the biggest issue addressing the club going forward. It has bordered on negligence at times during the year. Hill's attitude - after his 9 disposal game off half-back last week - was breaking point for me. It's hard not to shame a player for his efforts when he shames the club by clearly not giving a ****.
It's simply not good enough.
 

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sunny3193 said:
But you have said Satan is operating in a completely different method to other clubs and the prior incumbents. So why do you now reference past history as the basis of your argument? He, as you acknowledge, is marching to a different drum. Surely you measure him on his performance to date?
And why say that we are culling core players because we overspent on Hill and Hanners? That’s not why we are having a discussion about retaining three FA’s. The question is whether they add value to the team, now and for the next three years. Not what someone else’s getting paid.
As for whether Bytel and Byrnes come on, the counter argument is simple.
What if we have already seen the best of Ross and Dunstan?
Where does that leave us in three years?

Your argument for retention of Ross and Dunstan is based on culture and depth. You may be right for next year.
I doubt whether that is true for 2023 and 2024.
But we will still have Ross and Dunstan hanging around our necks like dead albatross.
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At that point the youth are good and you move on Ross and Dunstan and shift the money to them. Dunny and Ross are happy to leave for oppotunity after getting pushed out. Pretty much Rockliff at Port otherwise, pushed out to depth.
 
sunny3193 said:
#40 and #41 will not be replacing Ross and Dunstan next year.
You know that.
Their replacements will be from the existing list: Clark, Gresham, Bytel, Byrnes etc.
Now whether #40 and #41 are adequate replacements, please see: Paton, Byrnes, Connelly, Highmore, Wilkie et al.
Plus we can bundle those picks into something better.

And if we do retain the two FA’s and not get #40 and #41 then we have Dunstan and Ross on the list till 2024 with zero guarantee their performances will not decline.
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But you can't just replace a 2x B&F winner and a quality player like Billings with a couple of 3rd round draft picks.
They need to earn their place by playing in the reserves for 42 years and demand selection.
Trading out existing players doesn't make you better. You have to draft ready made stars and we haven't drafted any stars since 1946 and even then it was by luck because we've been shit at drafting since 1788!!
We need to make everything better by doing nothing and taking no risks!
I liked it better when Richo was in charge. There was a man who could tell the difference between a turnip and a parsnip, and he had the gumption to do nothing when action was demanded.
These kids you want to put faith in are nothing but a bunch of lay-abouts, texting with their X-boxes and their googles. They wouldn't know which end of a mule to put the harness on let alone how to stand and deliver a drop punt to a 1 on 1 forward contest.
Like they say: any man who sells a prize pig on a Monday won't get his apples in by frost.
We're after success here after all, and you won't get that by changing things!
 
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