Conspiracy Theory Coronavirus #4: Two weeks to flatten the curve!

[Aristotle Pickett]

Anyone critiquing your posts with a scintilla of analytical ability can detect High Troll Level Alert.

It's scientists and doctors doing the research and reviewing the results. Over 69 RCT with over 30 peer reviewed, all show high effectiveness of IVM in prevention and treatment of COVID -19

You seem to be talking about one Egyptian study, (Elgazzar et al) out of the 28 RCT results, used in a meta analysis that had it's integrity challenged. The removal of its data from the most comprehensive meta-analyses made a small difference to the percentage effectiveness and did not change the conclusion that IVM is highly effective in both prevention and treatment.

https://covid19criticalcare.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/SUMMARY-OF-THE-EVIDENCE-BASE-FINAL.pdf

Stop calling me a troll mate.
My point is fair and truthful. Do you think you are qualified to critique research papers? You're not.

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

You drew the false equivalence, not me.

Science on the impacts of a drug is false equivalence?

That view is probably the issue id say to a tee.

 

[BlueE]

Doctors don't prescribe smoking either.

They used to. King George being one example.

They also promoted it, paid by the tobacco companies even years after the tobacco companies covered up studies showing strong links to lung cancer.

It's a good example to use in comparison to the observational evidence and research showing increased incidence of cancer after COVID injections.

If only the manufacturers had competed their phase three trials with their placebo group intact (The “six month” preprint based on the 7% of trial participants who remained blinded at six months), before a world wide rollout then there would be reliable scientific evidence.

Does the FDA think these data justify the first full approval of a covid-19 vaccine? - The BMJ

The FDA should demand adequate, controlled studies with long term follow up, and make data publicly available, before granting full approval to covid-19 vaccines, says Peter Doshi On 28 July [...]More...

blogs.bmj.com

 

[BlueE]

Stop calling me a troll mate.
My point is fair and truthful. Do you think you are qualified to critique research papers? You're not.

Your point is illogical, not based on any evidence and as far from the truth as you can get!

And so is the Troll Alert for your posts.

 

[Aristotle Pickett]

Your point is illogical, not based on any evidence and as far from the truth as you can get!

And so is the Troll Alert for your posts.

What a load of rot.

 

[exit]

Stop calling me a troll mate.
My point is fair and truthful. Do you think you are qualified to critique research papers? You're not.

What a joke. Why should anyone listen to your opinion? What are your qualifications?

Give it a rest. **

 

[BlueE]

Vaccine efficacy against natural infection has only ever been best guess or average, we really need another six months of data to even get there.

Israel random controlled trials with over 14,000 matched participants in each group that showed vaccinated individuals had 27 times higher risk of symptomatic COVID infection compared to those with natural immunity from prior COVID disease.

The debate ends.

 

[Kurve]

Israel random controlled trials with over 14,000 matched participants in each group that showed vaccinated individuals had 27 times higher risk of symptomatic COVID infection compared to those with natural immunity from prior COVID disease.

The debate ends.

So? The debate doesn't end when you say it does. It will continue regardless and I'll wait for the next lot of data to come through. You may step out if satisified with the result.

 

[Aristotle Pickett]

What a joke. Why should anyone listen to your opinion? What are your qualifications?

Give it a rest. **

I was a div2 nurse for 10 years and have a Bachelor of Health Science degree.
We did 2 units on how to examine research. The lay man has no learned ability to critique these studies.
Once the qualified people properly looked at the Ivermectin research, they exposed it as fraudulent pretty quickly.
There are treatment drugs with legitimate research that work such as mono-clonal treatments, steroid anti-inflammatory treatments and to a lesser extent Remdesivir which has been shown to be superior to placebo.

 

[HitTheBoundary]

What some of you guys 'doing your own research' don't get, is that you're not qualified to do 'your own research '.
The Invermectin research is an example.
Looking through research papers requires an ability to critically analyse .(Analyse =examine (something) methodically and in detail, typically in order to explain and interpret it.)
You really need to have learnt how to interpret research by being at Uni for years.
The Invermectin research was full of plagiarism, false data and paid for by dodgy sources.
That's why it is illegal to prescribe it in Australia now.

I'm qualified to analyse it.

You're wrong.

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

Israel random controlled trials with over 14,000 matched participants in each group that showed vaccinated individuals had 27 times higher risk of symptomatic COVID infection compared to those with natural immunity from prior COVID disease.

The debate ends.

And then the debate got crushed when Pfizer bullied Israel into changing there path and forcing them to vaccinate everyone

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

I was a div2 nurse for 10 years and have a Bachelor of Health Science degree.
We did 2 units on how to examine research. The lay man has no learned ability to critique these studies.
Once the qualified people properly looked at the Ivermectin research, they exposed it as fraudulent pretty quickly.
There are treatment drugs with legitimate research that work such as mono-clonal treatments, steroid anti-inflammatory treatments and to a lesser extent Remdesivir which has been shown to be superior to placebo.

Did you do a unit on healthy lifestyle choices?

 

[HitTheBoundary]

I was a div2 nurse for 10 years and have a Bachelor of Health Science degree.
We did 2 units on how to examine research. The lay man has no learned ability to critique these studies.
Once the qualified people properly looked at the Ivermectin research, they exposed it as fraudulent pretty quickly.
There are treatment drugs with legitimate research that work such as mono-clonal treatments, steroid anti-inflammatory treatments and to a lesser extent Remdesivir which has been shown to be superior to placebo.

I can only assume you haven't looked at the studies yourself (and just read the media reports) or that you failed your 2 units on how to examine research.

I'm happy to post numerous studies that are well structured and that show both prophylactic efficacy and a mild treatment efficacy.

There may be much better treatments but as a possible prevention it's criminal how it's been treated.

 

[exit]

I was a div2 nurse for 10 years and have a Bachelor of Health Science degree.
We did 2 units on how to examine research. The lay man has no learned ability to critique these studies.
Once the qualified people properly looked at the Ivermectin research, they exposed it as fraudulent pretty quickly.
There are treatment drugs with legitimate research that work such as mono-clonal treatments, steroid anti-inflammatory treatments and to a lesser extent Remdesivir which has been shown to be superior to placebo.

Well I take it back. As a simple lay man, I bow to your superior research credentials as a div 2 nurse. At least you spelt Ivermectin correctly
this time. As would be expected of one with such credentials.

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

I can only assume you haven't looked at the studies yourself (and just read the media reports) or that you failed your 2 units on how to examine research.

I'm happy to post numerous studies that are well structured and that show both prophylactic efficacy and a mild treatment efficacy.

There may be much better treatments but as a possible prevention it's criminal how it's been treated.

Not even joking. He thinks Covid is worse for his health then smoking. He isnt afraid of smoking one bit but he is Covid. We need to get him to understand this research for. Sooner he quits the better for sure

 

[Kurve]

And then the debate got crushed when Pfizer bullied Israel into changing there path and forcing them to vaccinate everyone

I don't think anybody can bully Israel over a health issue, not even the US. This is one of the reasons why their data is so important and just about everybody who's anybody in covidworld is all over it.

 

[Bumpswithagrin]

I was a div2 nurse for 10 years and have a Bachelor of Health Science degree.
We did 2 units on how to examine research. The lay man has no learned ability to critique these studies.
Once the qualified people properly looked at the Ivermectin research, they exposed it as fraudulent pretty quickly.
There are treatment drugs with legitimate research that work such as mono-clonal treatments, steroid anti-inflammatory treatments and to a lesser extent Remdesivir which has been shown to be superior to placebo.

Why do you assume other people with a different opinion to you have not spent 'years at university'? Many of us have (not that it prevents someone who hasn't from reading and understanding research).

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

I don't think anybody can bully Israel over a health issue, not even the US. This is one of the reasons why their data is so important and just about everybody who's anybody in covidworld is all over it.

They have a exclusive deal with Pfizer. It is why they got everyone done the quickest and what not. If they went against Pfizers word and Pfizer pulled the item from them, they are stuffed

 

[Kurve]

Did you do a unit on healthy lifestyle choices?

Can we not do the picking on Aristotle over his smoking habits, it's kind of petty and nobody's picking on Spitty for it.

 

[BlueE]

So? The debate doesn't end when you say it does. It will continue regardless and I'll wait for the next lot of data to come through. You may step out if satisified with the result.

Israel is Pfizer's experimental study group, who agreed to give over data in return for supply. They've removed the control group from their own Phase 1 and 2 trials with only 7% of participants still blinded and probably less remaining in two years time when results will be reported in 2023. Is that what you're waiting for?

In the quoted Israel study, the actual matched numbers in the two groups "we matched 16,215 persons in each group. Overall, demographic characteristics were similar between the groups, with some differences in their comorbidity profile (Table 1a)"

Participants two weeks after being double doses with Pfizer were 27 times higher risk of symptomatic COVID infection compared to those with natural immunity from prior COVID disease, supports the research done on TCell immunity after recovery from either mild or severe COVID - 19 infections.

Where are you going to get a better study design than that?

They also differentiated between breakthrough infections after vaccination, from prolonged viral shedding. They only counted symptomatic PCR's indicating COVID infections, over 3 months after the second jab.

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.24.21262415v1.full.pdf

 

[Bumpswithagrin]

Can we not do the picking on Aristotle over his smoking habits, it's kind of petty and nobody's picking on Spitty for it.

What? Spitty is not telling everyone they have to get the jab!

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

Can we not do the picking on Aristotle over his smoking habits, it's kind of petty and nobody's picking on Spitty for it.

I think it being petty or seen as that is a core issue. We should be encouraging people to quit at all times and do so more so then we do for vaccinations for example. Ill definetly pick on Spitty over his smoking and hope he quits and gets better too. I dont care if he does but ill definetly encourage it. I dont wish smoking on my worst enemeny really and I hope Aristotle can quit and get better

Its 10 times more important for a person to quit smoking then it is to get a vaccine is my thought process. Its a shame the govt doesnt feel the same way as it just leads to piles of dead people for no good reason at all

 

[HitTheBoundary]

Regarding the earlier discussion on natural immunity the data out of Israel seems to suggest that best protection over time comes from natural infection AND one jab. Next is natural infection. And way behind is vaccination because it drops so much after 6 months, but this doesn't take into account forever booster shots.

" Conclusions This study demonstrated that natural immunity confers longer lasting and stronger protection against infection, symptomatic disease and hospitalization caused by the Delta variant of SARS-CoV-2, compared to the BNT162b2 two-dose vaccine-induced immunity. Individuals who were both previously infected with SARS-CoV-2 and given a single dose of the vaccine gained additional protection against the Delta variant. "

Comparing SARS-CoV-2 natural immunity to vaccine-induced immunity: reinfections versus breakthrough infections

Background Reports of waning vaccine-induced immunity against COVID-19 have begun to surface. With that, the comparable long-term protection conferred by previous infection with SARS-CoV-2 remains unclear. Methods We conducted a retrospective observational study comparing three groups...

www.medrxiv.org

And before all the peanuts start gushing that this is a pre-print, remember that every paper ever studied was a pre-print at some stage, it's just part of the process.

So if you want to pick it apart look for flaws, not where it is in the publication cycle.

I've linked to the comments section where people look for faults, so knock yourselves out.

 

[Kurve]

They have a exclusive deal with Pfizer. It is why they got everyone done the quickest and what not. If they went against Pfizers word and Pfizer pulled the item from them, they are stuffed

Actually, I'm just reading that Israel in part secured a deal for enough vaccine to cover the entire country on the pledge to provide the data. They've had more than enough almost right from the beginning so I'm not sure Pfizer could have done any standing over them at all. They're also sitting on Moderna.

And I just realised was discussed here earlier. Ops.

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

Actually, I'm just reading that Israel in part secured a deal for enough vaccine to cover the entire country on the pledge to provide the data. They've had more than enough almost right from the beginning so I'm not sure Pfizer could have done any standing over them at all. They're also sitting on Moderna.

What possible reason do you have for the news about vaccinating already infected people given the data BlueE posted before? Its gotta come from somewhere.