Oppo Camp Regular Non Eagles Discussion V2

[shooshka]

Was done in the other thread. Too early to tell but at this stage I'm comfortable it was still a good trade for us



Ha yep BF logic, the only first rounders our recruiters have had in the last 6+ years are both likely to be no longer be on the list after this year, but those same recruiters would've definitely nailed the picks we gave Geelong

To be fair, we've only taken 2 picks in the first round in that period. So using that stat I could say that there is a 50% chance any first rounder we take is going to retire due to concussion.

If we look beyond that, both historically around the 1st round, and recently around 2nd and 3rd round, our recruiters have actually done incredibly well.

2020 - LEdwards (jury out on West, Winder, Trew)
2019 - (Jury out on CJ)
2018 - Foley, Hedwards (Jury out on Xon & Williams - Foley could possibly be in this category)
2017 - OAllen, Ryan, Petch (not sure if the jury is still out on Brander... if he re-signs with us he goes in this category).
2016 - Rotham, Rioli, Waterman
2015 - Cole

Every single one of those players who are AFL quality were taken after pick 20. 4 of them in the 50's or RD.

For a team who won a premiership in that timeframe, plus made finals every year in the above timeframe - to find around 10 players through the draft who should be long-term players for us (plus another 5-6 who could make it) is pretty decent.

 

[amazingjoshy]

To be fair, we've only taken 2 picks in the first round in that period. So using that stat I could say that there is a 50% chance any first rounder we take is going to retire due to concussion.

If we look beyond that, both historically around the 1st round, and recently around 2nd and 3rd round, our recruiters have actually done incredibly well.

2020 - LEdwards (jury out on West, Winder, Trew)
2019 - (Jury out on CJ)
2018 - Foley, Hedwards (Jury out on Xon & Williams - Foley could possibly be in this category)
2017 - OAllen, Ryan, Petch (not sure if the jury is still out on Brander... if he re-signs with us he goes in this category).
2016 - Rotham, Rioli, Waterman
2015 - Cole

Every single one of those players who are AFL quality were taken after pick 20. 4 of them in the 50's or RD.

For a team who won a premiership in that timeframe, plus made finals every year in the above timeframe - to find around 10 players through the draft who should be long-term players for us (plus another 5-6 who could make it) is pretty decent.

So on that evidence it wasn't a huge problem at all giving up 2 first rounders as we're more likely to nail lower picks?

I wasn't particularly bagging our recruiters, more pointing out that had we not done the trade I don't see how we would be massively better off than we currently are.

The "WC sold their future in that one trade" narrative only applies if you look back in hindsight and cherry pick the best possible draftees at each pick we gave up and assume we'd have picked them.

Most likely scenario is we'd have a couple of decent or promising kids on our list that we don't currently have, and a couple who would already look like not making it (or already be delisted)

And had we not done the trade and kept our picks we most likely wouldn't have Luke Edwards and Cal Jamieson, and we obviously wouldn't have Kelly.

 

[Keys]

As if Geelong weren’t already unlikeable enough.

PS : It’s paywalled so I haven’t read past the headline

 

[Chris_6678]

As if Geelong weren’t already unlikeable enough.

PS : It’s paywalled so I haven’t read past the headline

I read it. He is there as a stop gap to replace Clark for 1-2 years till they can get a new speedy HBF.

 

[kane249]

As if Geelong weren’t already unlikeable enough.

PS : It’s paywalled so I haven’t read past the headline

Ready made excuse for not developing any youngsters.

Can't develop them if you don't have any

 

[eaglespremiers]

Ready made excuse for not developing any youngsters.

Can't develop them if you don't have any

Just on Geelong, I know that the average age of the team has been raised ad nauseam but I didn't realise just how many of their starting 22 are in the twilight of their career. If you'll be charitable enough for me to apply the arbitrary age of 29 years as the age that a good AFL player might be considering retirement and you accept that anyone this age or over will almost certainly not be playing in 2024 (which is the same presumption I would make for West Coast players) and unlikely to be elite in 2023, then you are left with the following best-22 players:
1. Tom Stewart (born 15 March 1993, 28 years of age) - elite 3rd defender (arbitrary 2021 rating 9/10)
2. Jeremy Cameron (born 1 April 1993, 28 years of age) - good 1st/2nd key forward (arbitrary 2021 rating 6/10)
3. Brandon Parfitt (born 27 April 1998, 23 years of age) - average midfielder (arbitrary 2021 rating 4/10)
4. Jack Henry (born 29 August 1998, 23 years of age) - average-good key defender (arbitrary 2021 rating 4/10)
5. Esava Ratugolea (born 24 July 1998, 23 years of age) - below average ruckman/below average key forward (arbitrary 2021 rating 3/10)
6. Quinton Narkle (born 3 December 1998, 23 years of age) - average midfielder (arbitrary 2021 rating 3/10)
7. Tom Atkins (born 18 September 1995, 26 years of age) - below average small defender (arbitrary 2021 rating 2/10)
8. Gryan Miers (born 30 March 1999, 22 years of age) - average crumbing forward (arbitrary 2021 rating 2/10)
9. Jake Kolodjashnij (born 9 August 1995, 26 years of age) - below average tall defender (arbitrary 2021 rating 2/10)
10. Mark O'Conner (born 17 January 1997, 24 years of age) - below average small defender (arbitrary 2021 rating 2/10)
11. Jed Bews (born 14 December 1993, 27 years of age) - 2nd string midfielder (arbitrary 2021 rating 1/10)

My ratings may be completely unfounded but they make my post more interesting. Outside of Stewart and, to a lesser extent, Cameron (who will both be 29 years of age at the start of next season) there is basically nothing that you can work with for the next generation.
I have left off a couple of really junior kids as I think it is unfair to weigh up their contributions until they develop for a couple more years.
Regardless, the cliff is fast approaching for Geelong. As somebody who dislikes this football club immeasurably I hope that they do not do anything to curtail this likely steep decline which we should see in 2023.

 

[kane249]

The recruitment of Dangerfield is what propped them up when they were previously on the decline. Unless some massive superstar also decided to head home to Geelong they can't escape the inevitable this time.

 

[Quinz]

The recruitment of Dangerfield is what propped them up when they were previously on the decline. Unless some massive superstar also decided to head home to Geelong they can't escape the inevitable this time.

Seems to happen for them every time though. They'll find someone else to prop them up sure enough.

 

[eaglespremiers]

The recruitment of Dangerfield is what propped them up when they were previously on the decline. Unless some massive superstar also decided to head home to Geelong they can't escape the inevitable this time.

I'm not one of those who typically classifies success as "premiers or bust" and so, from a basic perspective, two preliminary finals and a grand final appearance in the last three years is far more consistent than any other team (and much better than us).
However, I think because Geelong have gone so heavily with their "all in" recruiting strategy the fact that this has not yielded a premiership will be seen as a massive indictment contextually should their decline be pronounced from herein. Probably not as bad as Port Adelaide in 2002-2003 had they failed to capitalise in 2004 or St Kilda at the turn of the decade (as both these teams were for large stretches of the relevant seasons the best teams in the competition) but certainly more disappointing than Adelaide in 2005-2006 and the Bulldogs around the same time as St Kilda's attempts for the flag. Perhaps the saving grace is that it hasn't been a long time between drinks for Geelong. But no team should be satisfied with resting on their successes from a decade ago.

 

[kane249]

Seems to happen for them every time though. They'll find someone else to prop them up sure enough.

Maybe, I don't see it happening this time though personally.

The other intangible that's driven the Cats since 2007 is the presence of Joel Selwood, he's been the heart and soul of the club since he arrived and won't be easily replaced

 

[FKASC]

Maybe, I don't see it happening this time though personally.

The other intangible that's driven the Cats since 2007 is the presence of Joel Selwood, he's been the heart and soul of the club since he arrived and won't be easily replaced

And Hawkins. Easy to top up with trades and FA when you have two leaders like that at the core of the side.

The ratings given to the other players above are not accurate but either way, trading in a gun player in 2022-23 won’t have the same impact as it did with Dangerfield

 

[tigger_ferret]

And Hawkins. Easy to top up with trades and FA when you have two leaders like that at the core of the side.

The ratings given to the other players above are not accurate but either way, trading in a gun player in 2022-23 won’t have the same impact as it did with Dangerfield

Cameron was their gun they traded in, but cost significantly more than Danger and isn’t the same level.

Having said that, I would be surprised to see them fully bottom out, they will continue to top up with depth players for cheap plus they have possibly the best home ground advantage in the comp.

They will however need to find some A graders to keep them going

 

[FKASC]

Cameron was their gun they traded in, but cost significantly more than Danger and isn’t the same level.

Having said that, I would be surprised to see them fully bottom out, they will continue to top up with depth players for cheap plus they have possibly the best home ground advantage in the comp.

They will however need to find some A graders to keep them going

Yeah I doubt they’ll bottom out. Home ground advantage makes that difficult. Happy to see them tread water for longer though

 

[Chris_6678]

More surgery for gun Crow Matt Crouch

5

Matt Crouch

Age

31

Ht

181cm

Wt

85kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

28.4

5star

K

12.0

4star

HB

16.4

5star

M

3.3

3star

T

3.9

5star

CL

4.8

5star

D

24.9

5star

K

9.7

4star

HB

15.1

5star

M

2.4

3star

T

2.4

3star

CL

4.4

5star

D

21.2

5star

K

10.4

4star

HB

10.8

5star

M

4.4

4star

T

3.4

5star

CL

2.0

4star

, return to training unclear (afl.com.au)

Goes to show surgery doesn't always work. Nic Nat had similar issues during 2013 & 14 and had two bouts of surgery to fix his groins.

 

[shooshka]

Just on Geelong, I know that the average age of the team has been raised ad nauseam but I didn't realise just how many of their starting 22 are in the twilight of their career. If you'll be charitable enough for me to apply the arbitrary age of 29 years as the age that a good AFL player might be considering retirement and you accept that anyone this age or over will almost certainly not be playing in 2024 (which is the same presumption I would make for West Coast players) and unlikely to be elite in 2023, then you are left with the following best-22 players:
1. Tom Stewart (born 15 March 1993, 28 years of age) - elite 3rd defender (arbitrary 2021 rating 9/10)
2. Jeremy Cameron (born 1 April 1993, 28 years of age) - good 1st/2nd key forward (arbitrary 2021 rating 6/10)
3. Brandon Parfitt (born 27 April 1998, 23 years of age) - average midfielder (arbitrary 2021 rating 4/10)
4. Jack Henry (born 29 August 1998, 23 years of age) - average-good key defender (arbitrary 2021 rating 4/10)
5. Esava Ratugolea (born 24 July 1998, 23 years of age) - below average ruckman/below average key forward (arbitrary 2021 rating 3/10)
6. Quinton Narkle (born 3 December 1998, 23 years of age) - average midfielder (arbitrary 2021 rating 3/10)
7. Tom Atkins (born 18 September 1995, 26 years of age) - below average small defender (arbitrary 2021 rating 2/10)
8. Gryan Miers (born 30 March 1999, 22 years of age) - average crumbing forward (arbitrary 2021 rating 2/10)
9. Jake Kolodjashnij (born 9 August 1995, 26 years of age) - below average tall defender (arbitrary 2021 rating 2/10)
10. Mark O'Conner (born 17 January 1997, 24 years of age) - below average small defender (arbitrary 2021 rating 2/10)
11. Jed Bews (born 14 December 1993, 27 years of age) - 2nd string midfielder (arbitrary 2021 rating 1/10)

My ratings may be completely unfounded but they make my post more interesting. Outside of Stewart and, to a lesser extent, Cameron (who will both be 29 years of age at the start of next season) there is basically nothing that you can work with for the next generation.
I have left off a couple of really junior kids as I think it is unfair to weigh up their contributions until they develop for a couple more years.
Regardless, the cliff is fast approaching for Geelong. As somebody who dislikes this football club immeasurably I hope that they do not do anything to curtail this likely steep decline which we should see in 2023.

The funny thing is that 2 of the bottom 3 players on your list were holding Jordon Clark out of the side - and Geelong demanded high-ish picks for him.

Really glad we dodged that bullet.

 

[happy_eagle]

Adelaide Social Media Officer forgot to switch twitter accounts.

 

[Truckosaurus]

It's been up there for four days without being deleted in a sweaty panic? I think the guy's into it.

 

[Mr Eagle]

It's been up there for four days without being deleted in a sweaty panic? I think the guy's into it.

Potential draftee, maybe? They've analysed his feet in some detail and might think he can kick well.

 

[Truckosaurus]

Potential draftee, maybe? They've analysed his feet in some detail and might think he can kick well.

If he's into findom he'd take up a lot of the salary cap though. Could lead to disharmony in the playing group. Unless they're into that.

 

[FKASC]

If he's into findom he'd take up a lot of the salary cap though. Could lead to disharmony in the playing group. Unless they're into that.

That camp really did some things

 

[FKASC]

I should really stop using #finddom as a hashtag whenever Sheed goes missing.

 

[Chris_6678]

Regional fans filthy over Melbourne fan-day premiership event costs (sen.com.au)

Thats rough.

Its like they missed out on charging people $150-500 for AFL GF tickets lets charge people $149 for a ticket or $499 for a family pass to go see the cup lol

 

[kane249]

‘Do the work’: Geelong address star’s ugly exit

New Cats chief executive Steve Hocking has addressed the departure of speedster Jordan Clark in a saga that dominated headlines during the AFL Trade Period.

www.news.com.au

When asked about Clark’s exit during an interview with 3AW’s Sportsday on Monday night, Hocking responded: “For our younger players, you have to do the work.

“If you do get an opportunity, you need to grab it with both hands and push past some of those experienced players.


“I think Melbourne have proven that, and are a great example of that.

“That’s the comment I would make around Jordan Clark

6

Jordan Clark

Age

25

Ht

185cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.7

4star

K

9.4

4star

HB

4.3

3star

M

4.2

4star

T

2.6

4star

MG

172.0

3star

D

12.5

3star

K

8.5

3star

HB

4.0

3star

M

4.0

4star

T

1.5

2star

MG

172.0

3star

D

12.2

3star

K

10.4

4star

HB

1.8

2star

M

3.4

4star

T

2.4

4star

.”

Backs up the entitled attitude rumours that surrounded Clark

 

[Truckosaurus]

Perfect fit for Freo.

 

[Happy Mastenator]

‘Do the work’: Geelong address star’s ugly exit

New Cats chief executive Steve Hocking has addressed the departure of speedster Jordan Clark in a saga that dominated headlines during the AFL Trade Period.

www.news.com.au

Backs up the entitled attitude rumours that surrounded Clark

Meh. Considering Geelong gave Jed Bews 25 games and Dalhaus 21 games this season, I think the idea that you these young players can push out the older players is not actually something that is possible.