Opinion The 'Carlton related stuff that doesn't need it's own thread' thread Part 2

[Gethelred]

I see Port Adelaide have nominated Bryce Gibbs, Matthew Lobbe & Troy Menzel as Covid Top Up players & the Eagles have nominated Angus Schumacher.

I'm pleased to see Hugh Hamilton on our list. I watched him a few times in the NAB League last year & thought he was a bit of a 'roughie' for last year's draft.

That's interesting. Wonder how much he and the Glenelg lot have fallen out.

 

[Gethelred]

Thought Ross Lyon came across pretty respectful towards the club here. Also confirms what we all thought, he really didnt want to go through a "process"

Home - Triple M

www.triplem.com.au

Think he's being pretty evasive there.

• didn't want to enter a process "against assistants", but was willing to do it against Clarko, the Scott bros.
• didn't want do it, but was more than happy to share his thoughts on what we were doing wrong and how he'd fix them.

The only thing that I kind of believe him about is the idea that he intimated that the hunger wasn't there, but even then he flew through it, moving onto the alternative things he's doing instead and that almost rang false, too. He only spent all year borderline campaigning for the gig, only to tell us after he didn't get it that he didn't want it anyway.

That whole clip felt slimy.

 

[blue healer]

One of the things I like about Voss is that he has said, players are not necessary playing for best 22 but playing for defined roles.

Dow is the perfect example of this, he is probably best 22 over LOB, Boyd, Owies and probably a few others, but he is fighting for the inside midfielder role and need to replace the likes of Kennedy, Hewett types. Dow will not play forward flank, forward pocket even thou he is best 22 because others can play that role better.

Setterfield playing wing is the only player I see playing outside his preferred role, but also understand this as wing is a weakness in our team and he has first crack there.

This raises an interesting question for me.

If, as you propose, Dow is indeed best 22 over the players you mention then why would we not recognise this and try to develop him to play another position?

If we keep exposing him to only an on ball role are we not making him more a break glass option and not the weapon that he could be with versatility?

I know he has been tried as a small forward but I think that was more to keep him in the team in the hope that he will eventually get back into the middle, maybe it's time to say "Ok this is your spot, earn the permanent elevation".

I also think you can possibly add McGovern to Setterfield as a player playing outside his preferred position.

I think perhaps we should be envisaging Dow as competition for Setterfield, LOB, Owies etc in their positions and having him work on the necessary skills to pressure these guys and not risk having him as the best mid in the VFL with very limited chances for a game at the top level.

I think a similar problem looms for Stocker on his return. How does he fit in...backline as before (probably not), mid (competing with Dow)?

He also is seen by many here as best 22, but where?

 

[Stamos]

I think a similar problem looms for Stocker on his return. How does he fit in...backline as before (probably not), mid (competing with Dow)?

He also is seen by many here as best 22, but where?

Simple, Stocker takes Newman's spot

 

[CJMB]

This raises an interesting question for me.

If, as you propose, Dow is indeed best 22 over the players you mention then why would we not recognise this and try to develop him to play another position?

If we keep exposing him to only an on ball role are we not making him more a break glass option and not the weapon that he could be with versatility?

I know he has been tried as a small forward but I think that was more to keep him in the team in the hope that he will eventually get back into the middle, maybe it's time to say "Ok this is your spot, earn the permanent elevation".

I also think you can possibly add McGovern to Setterfield as a player playing outside his preferred position.

I think perhaps we should be envisaging Dow as competition for Setterfield, LOB, Owies etc in their positions and having him work on the necessary skills to pressure these guys and not risk having him as the best mid in the VFL with very limited chances for a game at the top level.

I think a similar problem looms for Stocker on his return. How does he fit in...backline as before (probably not), mid (competing with Dow)?

He also is seen by many here as best 22, but where?

I think it's worth differentiating where those players mentioned have the scope to play.

Setterfield's best position would be more inside the contest, but he has the running ability to operate as a defensive wing. Having a bit of height helps for those marking contests down the line, even if he's not a particularly strong mark, he can at least impact the contest.

O'Brien can only play wing, and that's what he's doing. Similarly Owies as a small forward. McGovern's preferred position might have been forward, but he had played occasionally as a 3rd tall/spare defender over the years, probably more at Adelaide than his couple of cameos with us. Regardless, it was pretty obvious he at least had the tools to do that role; he's a great reading of the ball in flight, has a impressive leap and good hands, has surprising top-line speed and is a beautiful kick (with both feet?!).

Dow is, at least for now, an inside mid. He's going to have to really work hard on a few of his deficiencies and put together some solid form. He's not competing with any of the aforementioned players.

I wouldn't go as far as to say he can't co-exist in the seniors with the Cripps/Kennedy/Hewett/Cerra(?Walsh) combination, if he's genuinely banging down the door then there could be a minor reshuffle where Cerra & Hewett spend a little/more time on a wing, Kennedy spends a bit of extra time at half-forward, etc. It might be a scenario where, hypothetically of course, Jack is injured so Kennedy can take a bit more of his hf time, but we've also still got a good spread of speed & endurance runners across the park (ie all the small fwds are up & running, Walsh is predominantly on a wing, all of Doc, Williams & Saad down back, etc) so the overall team running/spread/workrate isn't compromised.

Although in that scenario for Dow to get the callup he'd probably have had to improve the defensive side of his game anyway. I did notice he clocked up over 14kms of distance at least once last year, so maybe it's a combination of the previous aggressive spread meaning he gassed himself too quickly and also a good bit above the shoulders (not being confident on where to run, etc). You'd think he'd be better suited to our current tighter midfield setup, not to mention he's got great hands and those first few steps are top shelf, in any direction.

Sounds like he was one of the best, if not the best out of the middle last week, which is a step in the right direction. Pretty keen to keep an eye on the VFL this week to see if he can back it up.

 

[blue healer]

Simple, Stocker takes Newman's spot

Perhaps, let's wait and see. I think Newman is undersold by many here. Bit of competition there as well with Plowman, Kemp, Williamson, Boyd and,hopefully, Marchbank.

 

[Arr0w]

Simple, Stocker takes Newman's spot

Not that simple actually. While Stocker could replace Newman, he could take Williams or Doc's role, one of whom then replaces Setters or LOB on a wing.

It's always best to look at all the possibilities rather than being so caught up with wanting one player removed

 

[blue healer]

I think it's worth differentiating where those players mentioned have the scope to play.

Setterfield's best position would be more inside the contest, but he has the running ability to operate as a defensive wing. Having a bit of height helps for those marking contests down the line, even if he's not a particularly strong mark, he can at least impact the contest.

O'Brien can only play wing, and that's what he's doing. Similarly Owies as a small forward. McGovern's preferred position might have been forward, but he had played occasionally as a 3rd tall/spare defender over the years, probably more at Adelaide than his couple of cameos with us. Regardless, it was pretty obvious he at least had the tools to do that role; he's a great reading of the ball in flight, has a impressive leap and good hands, has surprising top-line speed and is a beautiful kick (with both feet?!).

Dow is, at least for now, an inside mid. He's going to have to really work hard on a few of his deficiencies and put together some solid form. He's not competing with any of the aforementioned players.

I wouldn't go as far as to say he can't co-exist in the seniors with the Cripps/Kennedy/Hewett/Cerra(?Walsh) combination, if he's genuinely banging down the door then there could be a minor reshuffle where Cerra & Hewett spend a little/more time on a wing, Kennedy spends a bit of extra time at half-forward, etc. It might be a scenario where, hypothetically of course, Jack is injured so Kennedy can take a bit more of his hf time, but we've also still got a good spread of speed & endurance runners across the park (ie all the small fwds are up & running, Walsh is predominantly on a wing, all of Doc, Williams & Saad down back, etc) so the overall team running/spread/workrate isn't compromised.

Although in that scenario for Dow to get the callup he'd probably have had to improve the defensive side of his game anyway. I did notice he clocked up over 14kms of distance at least once last year, so maybe it's a combination of the previous aggressive spread meaning he gassed himself too quickly and also a good bit above the shoulders (not being confident on where to run, etc). You'd think he'd be better suited to our current tighter midfield setup, not to mention he's got great hands and those first few steps are top shelf, in any direction.

Sounds like he was one of the best, if not the best out of the middle last week, which is a step in the right direction. Pretty keen to keep an eye on the VFL this week to see if he can back it up.

All good points and probably reflective of our current status but re the bolded I would just say it might be time to try him as more than just an inside mid. He would have to have exceptional (not just good) form in the in the lower grade to unseat any of those there now. Given that, I see no reason why we would not try to increase his versatility to allow him to compete with those, or any other, players

Blanket statements like "he's not competing for best 22 but best in his position" smacks a little of a horses for courses mentality which doesn't fit the way the game has evolved. It might turn out to be be the right approach with him and others but I question it if it is ongoing policy.

 

[blue healer]

Not that simple actually. While Stocker could replace Newman, he could take Williams or Doc's role, one of whom then replaces Setters or LOB on a wing.

It's always best to look at all the possibilities rather than being so caught up with wanting one player removed

I suppose the other point I'd make is that he was widely considered here to be played out of position last year.

 

[branedotorg]

Setterfield playing wing is the only player I see playing outside his preferred role, but also understand this as wing is a weakness in our team and he has first crack there.

setterfield is playing a fairly defined watercarrier role. LOB on the other wing is running defensively but also wide and ahead of play as an outlet. Will is in contrast typically on the defensive side of a contest, guarding exit lanes and occasionally sliding to cover for an attacking HB.

it's one of the team roles we needed so badly under teague but never had.

 

[Coona Blues]

Not that simple actually. While Stocker could replace Newman, he could take Williams or Doc's role, one of whom then replaces Setters or LOB on a wing.

It's always best to look at all the possibilities rather than being so caught up with wanting one player removed

Setterfield plays defensive wing. If Doc’s recovery is complete,he is the only one from that group likely to fill that role. I understand your point of not being invested on this one or that one. Clearly Stocker will return through the twos, given our season’s start. Let’s not forget one Sam Walsh is a week or two away from forcing one wing to largely give way to midfield rotations.

We are stacked. Vossy and co. doing great work, but they have a spectacular group to deal with.

 

[Arr0w]

Setterfield plays defensive wing. If Doc’s recovery is complete,he is the only one from that group likely to fill that role. I understand your point of not being invested on this one or that one. Clearly Stocker will return through the twos, given our season’s start. Let’s not forget one Sam Walsh is a week or two away from forcing one wing to largely give way to midfield rotations.

We are stacked. Vossy and co. doing great work, but they have a spectacular group to deal with.

With Stocker and Walsh returning (hopefully the rest of the group stays healthy), Doc takes Setters role, Walsh (and other rotations) takes LOB's role. Stocker slots back to release Doc to a wing

it's great having better options and the acquisitions of Hewett and Cerra have created a situation where, not only has the quality/consistency improved, but so does the versatility

 

[xDQ82x]

Spoke with my mate for the first time in ages, a couple of interesting take away's for me.

Dow - Think's he will be ok and still on the list next year (long way to go obviously) and being kept out of the side by Kennedy.

Kennedy - Penny has dropped, his form is 95% him 5% coaching. Has realised the coaches can only do so much and has taken it on himself to get better / perform better.

This is also a more generalised thing too that the players are taking more ownership.

My mates expectations for the year (not the club view his view from what he sees) two finals this year if the lists stays healthy. I would preface this with every year before this he has been very pessimistic so I was surprised.

 

[thylacine60]

walshy back next week perhaps - poor hawks..........

 

[mediumsizered]

That's interesting. Wonder how much he and the Glenelg lot have fallen out.

Obviously enough to see him playing at South Adelaide instead of returning to Glenelg since finishing at the Crows.

 

[RPCB]

93-year member Phyllis Taig passes away at 106

Vale, Phyllis Taig.

www.carltonfc.com.au

Vale, Phyllis Taig.

 

[JustaBattler]

Good to know that Mitch McGovern is an A grader now.

How do you think he is performing so far this year?
*anyone who agreed with this smarty pants one liner is welcome to chime in with your thoughts as well....

 

[JustaBattler]

With Stocker and Walsh returning (hopefully the rest of the group stays healthy), Doc takes Setters role, Walsh (and other rotations) takes LOB's role. Stocker slots back to release Doc to a wing

it's great having better options and the acquisitions of Hewett and Cerra have created a situation where, not only has the quality/consistency improved, but so does the versatility

I like the idea of Doc on a wing.

 

[Arr0w]

I like the idea of Doc on a wing.

Yeap, a great runner, can play the defensive role and still be dangerous going forward.

On Setters, I think his game was really underrated, very disciplined, hit some targets in dangerous areas and was a great link up player

 

[JustaBattler]

Yeap, a great runner, can play the defensive role and still be dangerous going forward.

On Setters, I think his game was really underrated, very disciplined, hit some targets in dangerous areas and was a great link up player

yes - I thought Setterfield got very busy in Q4 to good effect.

 

[skadoosh]

Yeap, a great runner, can play the defensive role and still be dangerous going forward.

On Setters, I think his game was really underrated, very disciplined, hit some targets in dangerous areas and was a great link up player

Kept an eye on him in the replay. Definitely had some nicely weighted kicks during the game.

 

[ferrisb]

walshy back next week perhaps - poor hawks..........

What's Tom Mitchell's record # of disposals in a match?





Asking for a friend (coming back from injury)....

 

[Juddernaut08]

Yeap, a great runner, can play the defensive role and still be dangerous going forward.

On Setters, I think his game was really underrated, very disciplined, hit some targets in dangerous areas and was a great link up player

I've been a big criticizer of Setters in 2021 because he didn't seem to have a point of difference that you need for an effective wingman.

However if he plays as the run-with Wingman who can shutdown the Smith/Amon/Hill types while giving solid delivery i50 which is one of his kicking strengths...I like him on the wing.

I'd like the other wing to be 50/50 Walsh and Cerra when all fit.

I do wish LOB would work out but at the moment I'd strangely prefer Setterfield.

 

[thylacine60]

Jason Bennett, a commentator who knows when to use silence. Long may this bloke reign.

PS: Charlie's first goal 30 seconds in was the first time I've heard Bennett shout.

 

[Aphrodite]

Jason Bennett, a commentator who knows when to use silence. Long may this bloke reign.

PS: Charlie's first goal 14 seconds in was the first time I've heard Bennett shout.