Strategy Trade and List management Thread Part 5 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

[The Inbetweener]

No our biggest weakness is our defence and lack of quality KPD's. The only two upsides to Lobb recruitment is that he can play as a full Forward/KPF which will allow Naughton to swing into defence as required and also as a backup to English.
Our ruck situation is definitely a concern but that is from poor coaching, nothing else. Our KPD situation is our main concern overall.

I still have this feeling we will recruit Lobb and try and make him a KPD. I recall there was an article earlier in the year saying we were identifying forwards who we think can play in the backline. It would be such a Bevo move.

 

[grassman75]

People are delusional if they think $500k for Lobb is an overpay, is exactly where he is at.

I think 500k is an overpay for any AFL footballer of his standard

 

[Chalky White]

I am not against Lobb coming to us. I don't think he is too expensive at 500k and his trade price shouldn't be too bad.
But as far as a recruiting strategy goes it seems like a finger in the dyke strategy. We need KPD's of quality urgently. Either through the trade period or draft. I would rather draft and develop kids than pick up throwaway players that are average from other clubs.
Sweet in my opinion is a good enough back up for English, Bevo crucified him. His stats marry up with second rucks elsewhere and he costs SFA in salary.
Chase a ruck sure...if it's Grundy. I'm not sure if Meek or Strachan or those types will do any better than Sweet. The stats don't show they will so why would we expect monstrous improvement just because they are at a new club.
i would be looking at a Dunkley to Brisbane - Harris Andrews

31

Harris Andrews

Age

29

Ht

200cm

Wt

98kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.8

3star

K

7.4

3star

HB

5.4

4star

M

5.6

5star

T

1.6

4star

MG

151.7

2star

D

17.0

4star

K

9.0

4star

HB

8.0

4star

M

4.0

4star

T

2.0

3star

D

9.8

3star

K

5.0

2star

HB

4.8

4star

M

3.4

4star

T

1.6

4star

MG

94.0

2star

to us type trade. Try to fill a hole with what we need rather than a pick that is very speculative.

 

[Optimistic Dog]

The obvious standout of the top 6 teams is the quality of their tall defenders compared to the bulldogs. It has been apparent all season and is even more obvious on the big stage. Their tall defenders not only defend but also create attack from defence where our defenders are flat just trying to defend and provide nil in offensive plays.

 

[Chalky White]

I still have this feeling we will recruit Lobb and try and make him a KPD. I recall there was an article earlier in the year saying we were identifying forwards who we think can play in the backline. It would be such a Bevo move.

I can't recall Lobb ever being a KPD of any note. I may be wrong but I just don't see that working. I am not saying that is what we will try to do, but I don't believe it will work with him.

 

[Chalky White]

The obvious standout of the top 6 teams is the quality of their tall defenders compared to the bulldogs. It has been apparent all season and is even more obvious on the big stage. Their tall defenders not only defend but also create attack from defence where our defenders are flat just trying to defend and provide nil in offensive plays.

100%

 

[Chops]

For those dead-against Lobb (seriously stop listening to Daisy Thomas), you need to take into account the following:

- Jamarra (20) & Darcy (19) are still very much developing. Neither should be relied upon week-to-week as key position locks in the short-term.

- Bruce (30) has look completely cooked since returning from a knee and wasn’t much chop as a 2nd ruck anyway. He’s another that may be tried in defence.

- Naughton may be required in defence if we can’t recruit KPD’s. Don’t think it’s first choice, but suspect we want it as an option anyway.

- We desperately need a 2nd ruck option. Darcy isn’t ready for this.

- Also need more ruck options/depth (ones that Bevo will actually pick). Also take into account some insurance for English (concussion).

There’s a very good reason why Power and co have eyed off Lobb for some time.

If we want to still compete short term and have a solid tie-over until Darcy etc come on, then he’s a no-brainer.

So we play only one of JUH or Darcy (possibly slowing their development) each week up forward and move either Naughton or Bruce back to squeeze in Lobb. All to fix a second ruck option which hardly our biggest issue. Defence,1st ruck, small forwards, wings.
We are desperate for 1 quality ruck not a second one. You miss our finals defeats over the last 4 years?
We have possibly a better forward/ruck in English and Darcy to come but we need another.

 

[Mutt]

Years ago, Port Adelaide ended up at arbitration over a trade. That caused future picks to become trade-able.

We will take them there again if needed. IF we suspect that will be cheaparse Ports choice again…. Our opening request will be their current and future first round picks. It would match the salary they are offering and arbitration will probably mean we would need to give them our future second as part of that trade.

Arbitration will likely find that Amon compensation is not an offer in good faith.

This is the point I've been making to those who think we are just going to get a bag of stale chips for Dunkley: there is an arbitration process in place and we should use it if we think we are being stiffed.

 

[TiAn_]

This is the point I've been making to those who think we are just going to get a bag of stale chips for Dunkley: there is an arbitration process in place and we should use it if we think we are being stiffed.

I have no idea how arbitration works for trades, but it seems strange it wasn’t used by GWS for Hately and GC for Martin if it’s that straightforward.

 

[Mr. Walker]

i don’t think many are dead set against him, it’s just a question of price. I don’t want to overpay for a 30 year-old based on an outlier season of performance.

I completely agree with this. His price should be based on his exposed form over the last few years, not just on this season or his last game against us. Tim O'Brien played very well too in his last game against us.

 

[geoffjennings79]

Jake Niall and Mark Duffield yesterday on the weekly ABC radio round up (based in Melb and Perth respectively) both confirmed Lobb has owned a property in Melbourne, and Jackson one in Perth, for quite some time. Both journos (and unlike most footy media, these two are actually journalists) confirmed Lobb will be in Melbourne next year (more than likely with us) and Jackson will be in Perth (most likely at Freo, but Eagles a slight chance).

A lot of things can change between now and the official trade period, but these 2 usually have good sources. Trade costs were not part of the convo though.

 

[Mofra]

Lobb getting $500k a year because he is tall and can ruck a bit makes me want to spew up. Talk about over inflated wages

How much do you think AFL standard KPPs get?

Aiden Corr is on $600k and Logue likely to join him at north on a $650k contract.
McStay's deal at Collingwood is reported as $650k x 5
Juice & Keath came across on circa $700k deals.

 

[Mofra]

I recall there was an article earlier in the year saying we were identifying forwards who we think can play in the backline. It would be such a Bevo move.

I'm having nightmares that this is correct and the forward we're talking about is Josh Bruce

 

[immortalmike]

How much do you think AFL standard KPPs get?

Aiden Corr is on $600k and Logue likely to join him at north on a $650k contract.
McStay's deal at Collingwood is reported as $650k x 5
Juice & Keath came across on circa $700k deals.

No way Keath and Bruce are on more than 600 each.

 

[LondonBulldog]

Anyone been paying attention to Collingwood's wins.

Its that basically everyone on the field runs. The are winning by outworking and outrunning sides, covering more ground than the opposition. They are not winning with Key Positions forwards, they are not winning with Key Position backs. Moore is a good interceptor but suspect 1 on 1. They all work for each other.

That tells me, we should trade for KPD and draft the best onballers with our first few picks. Move Dunkley on, if he hasn't decided yet, we don't want him, take the picks and rejuvenate.

 

[Unorth]

I'm having nightmares that this is correct and the forward we're talking about is Josh Bruce

We got a brief taste of this when Bev swung Darcy forward and Bruce back vs Hawthorn. And I believe maybe the gws game we had Bruce go back as a spare on occasion? We could have swapped Darcy with Naughts but didn’t.

Of course that’s just a game where a quick decision was made but I have some suspicions. Particularly considering Bruce at least started his career there (even though he wasn’t much chop and moved forward as a result).

 

[4Seasons]

No our biggest weakness is our defence and lack of quality KPD's. The only two upsides to Lobb recruitment is that he can play as a full Forward/KPF which will allow Naughton to swing into defence as required and also as a backup to English.
Our ruck situation is definitely a concern but that is from poor coaching, nothing else. Our KPD situation is our main concern overall.

Yeah..I’m actually keen on Naughton going back now, his chocking in finals is a concern.
The playing with his hair thing should be a concern. That’s the kind of stuff even us private school boys would be ashamed of.

SOS was a good forward, far better backman though.

 

[bobs head soup]

I think 500k is an overpay for any AFL footballer of his standard

I'd say it's about right.

Even though he's no world beater, If the average for all players, including those spending most weeks in the vfl, is $380k, then a best 22 player kicking 30+ goals, taking a toll defender and offering versatility as a 2nd ruck can't really be on much less.

 

[4Seasons]

Anyone been paying attention to Collingwood's wins.

Its that basically everyone on the field runs. The are winning by outworking and outrunning sides, covering more ground than the opposition. They are not winning with Key Positions forwards, they are not winning with Key Position backs. Moore is a good interceptor but suspect 1 on 1. They all work for each other.

That tells me, we should trade for KPD and draft the best onballers with our first few picks. Move Dunkley on, if he hasn't decided yet, we don't want him, take the picks and rejuvenate.

Yep, we need to draft some onballers
Our “generational” midfield isn’t cutting it anymore sadly.
Big bodied mids was a thing, now it’s pace and skill. Even Freos young mids crap all over our “generational” guys.

 

[Hoges64]

No way Keath and Bruce are on more than 600 each.

Jackson Trengove was on $600k, and those two are better than him.

 

[immortalmike]

Jackson Trengove was on $600k, and those two are better than him.

Trengove was an albatross around our neck thanks to McCartney.
Power is not the same.

 

[TiAn_]

Anyone been paying attention to Collingwood's wins.

Its that basically everyone on the field runs. The are winning by outworking and outrunning sides, covering more ground than the opposition. They are not winning with Key Positions forwards, they are not winning with Key Position backs. Moore is a good interceptor but suspect 1 on 1. They all work for each other.

That tells me, we should trade for KPD and draft the best onballers with our first few picks. Move Dunkley on, if he hasn't decided yet, we don't want him, take the picks and rejuvenate.

Moore and Howe are both elite interceptors, while both being more than capable of turning defence into attack with the ball. Their mediums like Maynard and Quaynor are also capable defenders in the air or on the ground and also great on rebound.

Aside from not giving their defence enough credit, otherwise agree with your point about Collingwood.

Sadly, we have too many players that offer one thing or another but not the full set of attributes you’d want in their position, e.g. Dale, Daniel, Williams, Hunter, and the rotating smalls that fill our our wings and flanks.

 

[TBOW]

Anyone been paying attention to Collingwood's wins.

Its that basically everyone on the field runs. The are winning by outworking and outrunning sides, covering more ground than the opposition. They are not winning with Key Positions forwards, they are not winning with Key Position backs. Moore is a good interceptor but suspect 1 on 1. They all work for each other.

That tells me, we should trade for KPD and draft the best onballers with our first few picks. Move Dunkley on, if he hasn't decided yet, we don't want him, take the picks and rejuvenate.

I was thinking the same thing watching the finals. Our team looks one paced and lacks spark.
The problem is sometimes it's hard to know whether that is personnel, system, or psychological.

I think losing the GF really took the spark out of our team. Last years 'igniters' Smith, Weightman and a few others seem to have aged years in a few months. We even saw a bit of a spark this year when guys like Khamis, West and Garcia came into the side, but unfortunately it was not sustained.

I agree with you and a couple of other posters that we need to rejuvenate. Bringing in young talent seems like the easiest way to do that but it can be done internally with a change of gameplan and attitude (look at Geelong).

If we lose Dunkley I would love to somehow trade up into the top 5 of the draft and grab Tsatas. Guy has extreme speed and could potentially go straight onto a wing from R1. I hope we are looking to address our leg speed with later picks in the draft also.

 

[AFDogs]

Baz will bounce back next season. Had a shitty year off field and it impacted him on it. Cleans up his disposal and he could be a top 20-30 player in the league. I wouldn't worry too much.

 

[Norm De Guerre]

So... why hasn't Martin retired yet?

Because we havent announced any list changes as yet?

Moore and Howe are both elite interceptors, while both being more than capable of turning defence into attack with the ball. Their mediums like Maynard and Quaynor are also capable defenders in the air or on the ground and also great on rebound.

Aside from not giving their defence enough credit, otherwise agree with your point about Collingwood.

Sadly, we have too many players that offer one thing or another but not the full set of attributes you’d want in their position, e.g. Dale, Daniel, Williams, Hunter, and the rotating smalls that fill our our wings and flanks.

The ability of defenders to intercept the ball and kill attacks dead is the foundation on which modern premierships are built.

It was once our greatest strength. Now its our Achilles heal.

Its all very well and good to have sublime and creative users of the ball in the back half as we do. However, if they can't or aren't backed up by KPD who can intercept or kill the ball then they tend to get exposed.

Ive been getting an uneasy feeling as the season unfolded that our side is being set up to fight yesterdays war. I think we'll get a better idea of this if a team can take down Geelong's tall forwards over the next couple of weeks. For mine, either the Swans or the Pies are best equiped to do this.

Either way. We need a massive reset in how we approach and set up for games. Because it never stands still.