NO TROLLS Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed.

[Wosh]

Don’t use this thread as an opportunity to troll North or any other clubs, you’ll be removed from the discussion. Stick to the topic and please keep it civil and respectful to those involved. Keep personal arguements out of this thread.
Help moderators by not quoting obvious trolls and use the report button, please and thank you.

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This is a serious topic, please treat it as such.

Videos, statements etc in the OP here:

NO TROLLS - Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed.

Don’t use this thread as an opportunity to troll North or any other clubs, you’ll be removed from the discussion. Stick to the topic and please keep it civil and respectful to those involved. Keep personal arguements out of this thread. Help moderators by not quoting obvious trolls and use the...

www.bigfooty.com

Link to Hawthorn Statement. - Link to ABC Sports article. - Leaked Report

 

[gouki88]

No. For a single 5 year period in the 1990s the figure of 1.26 applied. I am not able to explain that anomoly.

At the time Muirhead did his Commission the proportional numbers were near identical and have been for most of the period since. In recent years the Indigenous proportion of deaths in custody has fallen sharply to the figure of 15%, versus 30% of prison population. I am unable to put forward reasons for that fall either.

The bold part, again, is the important part, and the part that needs effort applied to it. Until people stop marching around the streets chanting murders in custody, that won't happen.

Trust me. Until recently I analysed demographic data, including Indigenous comparisons in almost every aspect of life, for a living.

If you don't want to trust me, you can find the most recent data from the Australian Crime commission here:

Deaths in custody in Australia 2019-20

The National Deaths in Custody Program has monitored the extent and nature of deaths occurring in prison, police custody and youth detention in Australia since 1980. In 2019-20 there were 113 deaths in custody. This report contains detailed information on these deaths and compares the findings...

apo.org.au

I agree with the crux of your point - the data supports that incarceration rate is much more significant an issue than deaths in custody.

But I think the former is a result of institutionalised racism.

 

[Ricketz]

You could say that it was Anglo based Australian culture or tradition to strap or cane students at School for minor behavioral issues.
We stopped doing that, not all that long ago, probably more recent than the stolen generation.

But slashing necks is ok because tradition.

See Nickoo how your misrepresentation of what occurred contributes to further racist opinions?

 

[Gralin]

Oh that's what happens in a normal good journalistic process, Rusty just didn't do that is all.

Tbh I think the issue is that Jackson operates as freelance print journalists for a broadcaster.

He has licence to go off and pursue his ideas, and he comes back with the finished product and they go plonk and run it as a one and done.

If we was working at a newspaper, there'd be a number of people involved in the process, and a whole variety of stages, and he'd have editors at various levels directing him where to take the story, which bits he needs to stand up etc.

The story would look very very different.

As it is, these are Rusty's personal projects, his passion he gets paid for. And by and large he's good at.

Until now.

I also don't care whether you believe I've worked as a journalist or not.

Nobody cares

 

[blackshadow]

Nobody cares

Wrong

 

[Gralin]

Wrong

Well other than you and simmo, nobody cares

 

[Ricketz]

Wrong

You realise your entire argument rests on personal (and irrelevant) credibility attacks on the man, rather than the content of his article?

 

[Del191229]

Nobody cares

What's your take on it then?

 

[campbell]

The treatment of Aboriginal people in custody and those that are incarcerated is one of the great shames of our country. Get away from raw doctored statistics and listen to people. Hear their stories. Aboriginal deaths and injury in police stations, holding rooms and prisons is something we should be ashamed of.

But most are not.
Sadly.

Years ago, in another time for me, I witness staff, laughing at how a blackfella, there words, died, in a cell.
How one kicked him, how no one did cpr, they walked away.

I was crying, had to walk out of the medical centre.

I found another job.

 

[blackshadow]

You realise your entire argument rests on personal (and irrelevant) credibility attacks on the man, rather than the content of his article?

I’m extremely critical of his unprofessional reporting.

I’ve always said that I have no doubt he’s reported what he was told.

It’s what he hasn’t done to investigate the claims more fully that’s the issue. He’s acted as a cheerleader for the accusers instead of being objective.

I believe he’s well meaning but totally out of his depth.

His article has led to the AFL review and it’s looks highly likely that the people who he interviewed are going to be left dissatisfied with the AFL review because he wasn’t equipped to deal with a story of this magnitude.

 

[South of the Yarra]

Oh my tobthisevp

If by we you mean me. No i didn't. I was clearly and obviously comparing the time frame.

If by we, you mean you, i have no ******* idea.

Trying to smear someone with the racist tag are "we"?

Then why link the two together. What is the relevance of the two being compared to each other? Why did you not use the comparative measure between corporal punishment and the introduction of decimal currency?
They have about as much relevance to each other as stolen generation and corporal punishment. I will let ‘you’ know as well that if I am going to label ‘you’ a racist I will tell you straight out. I won’t need to use inferential remarks to do so. I will also let you know that for many Aboriginal people the stolen generation is not close to being finished.

 

[evo]

I've been on the bench seat, watching from afar...

Gil's comments,


This bolded comment actually made me feel sick, no wonder the accuser's, don't want the AFL to be part of it...
That comment alone makes the boy's club, sweeping under the table, fake review and already made up their mind, comments seriously plausible...

The North supporters blind support for a guy that has never even coached a game for your club are encroaching on Essendon supporter levels...

AFL releases terms of reference for Hawks probe, reveals end date

The independent panel investigating historical allegations of racism at Hawthorn intends to complete its work this year

www.afl.com.au

Yeah that is pretty cheeky by ol' Gil.

As a poster noted earlier in the thread, everyone is watching. I'll be impressed if Gil manages to sweep this up.

 

[Makeshift Park]

Some pretty grim observations by the complainants' lawyer, which were also sadly very predictable:

First Nations families no guarantee to participate in Hawthorn review, lawyer says

The lawyer representing a First Nations family who allege mistreatment by Hawthorn, says their "traumatised" clients may not participate in the AFL's independent investigation.

www.abc.net.au

"To make replies to the other participants and then to write final submissions based on all the materials in one month.

"We have multiple parties, issues and allegations — to do that in a month and say it's culturally safe is impossible.

"Why is it so urgent? Why is it all being rushed?"

Dr Courtin said her clients feel they're being railroaded into an investigation that has no independence.

"This whole inquiry from the beginning through to any possible sanctions is underpinned and guided by the AFL rules," Dr Courtin said.

"And in many ways the AFL rules are a bit like the AFL's Canon Law, like the Church has Canon Law, its own system.

"[My clients] are feeling really crushed by this process."

 

[Stars align]

Gil is a smart, well trained media performer...

His comments look deliberate and didn't need to be said at all, he's suppose to remain impartial...

I think impartiality and confidentially was a requirement for all or most involved but hasn’t stopped anyone to date from going up media street

 

[South of the Yarra]

For those minimising the deaths of Aboriginals in custody through statistics please provide statistics for the abuse, beatings, emotional torture, physical punishment and for being belittled, demeaned and broken,

 

[Stars align]

Some pretty grim observations by the complainants' lawyer, which were also sadly very predictable:

First Nations families no guarantee to participate in Hawthorn review, lawyer says

The lawyer representing a First Nations family who allege mistreatment by Hawthorn, says their "traumatised" clients may not participate in the AFL's independent investigation.

www.abc.net.au

There have to be parameters otherwise it just turns into a never ending yarn session

 

[Smoocher]

How the tide has turned with the truth finally coming out in dribs and drabs.

Exaggerated accusations which so many on here believed without question.

Guilty without a chance to defend themselves.

Will be great to have these two great men coaching again very soon.

Sent from my CPH2197 using Tapatalk

 

[4cunningTonneTruck]

No. For a single 5 year period in the 1990s the figure of 1.26 applied. I am not able to explain that anomoly.

Okay?

How about you address the factually incorrect and disgusting take you made below:

I think there is a massive problem in our criminal justice system. It is a very shitty environment. It is, however, not a race problem

"Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples are disproportionately represented in Australian prison populations. In 2016, Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people constituted just 2% of the Australian adult population but comprised more than one quarter (27%) of the national adult prison population." From the ALRC.

 

[4cunningTonneTruck]

And now back to reality

“In 2018-19, 18% of all deaths in prison custody were of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples. Aboriginal people died at a rate of 0.13 per 100 prisoners, compared to a death rate of 0.21 per 100 prisoners for the total prison population.”

From the article you are quoting from:

"Aboriginal deaths in custody, it found, were a symptom of a system which disproportionately diverted police attention toward Aboriginal people and resulted in Aboriginal people being jailed younger and more frequently; a system where Aboriginal people were 11 times more likely to be denied bail and jailed on remand."

"According to the latest report from the Australian Institute of Criminology’s national deaths in custody program, Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people made up 28% of the total prison population in Australia as of 30 June 2019, while making up just over 3% of the total population."

"An analysis of deaths in custody cases over 10 years conducted by Guardian Australia shows that while the most common causes of death in custody for both Indigenous and non-Indigenous people were medical issues followed by self-harm, Indigenous people who died in custody were three times more likely to not receive all required medical care, according to coronial reports. For Indigenous women, the result was even worse – less than half received all required medical care prior to death."

"Coroners were also twice as likely to find that police, prisons or hospitals failed to follow all of their own procedures in cases involving an Indigenous death in custody than a non-Indigenous death in custody."

Nice work trivialising institutional racism you deceitful *head.

 

[the big lebowski]

From the article you are quoting from:

"Aboriginal deaths in custody, it found, were a symptom of a system which disproportionately diverted police attention toward Aboriginal people and resulted in Aboriginal people being jailed younger and more frequently; a system where Aboriginal people were 11 times more likely to be denied bail and jailed on remand."

"According to the latest report from the Australian Institute of Criminology’s national deaths in custody program, Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people made up 28% of the total prison population in Australia as of 30 June 2019, while making up just over 3% of the total population."

"An analysis of deaths in custody cases over 10 years conducted by Guardian Australia shows that while the most common causes of death in custody for both Indigenous and non-Indigenous people were medical issues followed by self-harm, Indigenous people who died in custody were three times more likely to not receive all required medical care, according to coronial reports. For Indigenous women, the result was even worse – less than half received all required medical care prior to death."

"Coroners were also twice as likely to find that police, prisons or hospitals failed to follow all of their own procedures in cases involving an Indigenous death in custody than a non-Indigenous death in custody."

Nice work trivialising institutional racism you deceitful *head.

Providing statistical data to disprove a commonly accepted myth is not trivialising anything. I’m sorry you can’t accept data that disproves what you want to believe.

I’ll let the personal attack pass.

Be well.

 

[Ricketz]

I’m extremely critical of his unprofessional reporting.

I’ve always said that I have no doubt he’s reported what he was told.

It’s what he hasn’t done to investigate the claims more fully that’s the issue. He’s acted as a cheerleader for the accusers instead of being objective.

I believe he’s well meaning but totally out of his depth.

His article has led to the AFL review and it’s looks highly likely that the people who he interviewed are going to be left dissatisfied with the AFL review because he wasn’t equipped to deal with a story of this magnitude.

Well first of all, it wasn't unprofessional. You don't actually understand what professional journalism means.

Second of all, you don't know what he has and hasn't investigated in researching the story.

Third, he is a Walkley Award and Gold Quill winner. He is hardly "out of his depth".

And finally, he had the resources of Australia's largest media organisation at his disposal. He was better equipped than most to deal with a story of this magnitude.

Like I said - your accusations are completely baseless.

 

[Del191229]

Some pretty grim observations by the complainants' lawyer, which were also sadly very predictable:

First Nations families no guarantee to participate in Hawthorn review, lawyer says

The lawyer representing a First Nations family who allege mistreatment by Hawthorn, says their "traumatised" clients may not participate in the AFL's independent investigation.

www.abc.net.au

That comparison with the Catholic Church and paedophilia is gross, and yes that is exactly what Judy is doing .

 

[blackshadow]

That comparison with the Catholic Church and paedophilia is gross, and yes that is exactly what Julie is doing .

Correct.

I wonder if the complainants who gave interviews are happy that Rusty went off half-cocked?

 

[Ricketz]

Correct.

I wonder if the complainants who gave interviews are happy that Rusty went off half-cocked?

Still beating that dead horse I see. We get it, you don't like people reporting on racism in footy clubs.

 

[blackshadow]

Still beating that dead horse I see. We get it, you don't like people reporting on racism in footy clubs.

You don’t get it.

It’s an extremely important subject that should be properly reported.

Because mr self-taught journalist got all starry-eyed at the thought of another Walkley he rushed the story, failed to properly investigate the claims and frame them in context and it’s all blown up.

As a result of Rusty going off half-cocked the AFL has now taken control and it looks extremely unlikely that the complainants will be satisfied with the outcome.

 

[Ricketz]

If by we you mean me. No i didn't. I was clearly and obviously comparing the time frame.

If by we, you mean you, i have no ******* idea.

Trying to smear someone with the racist tag are "we"?

We were probably just trying to figure why tf you were mentioning caning kids alongside removing them from their families.

No need to play victim.