Proposal to include premierships dating back to 1870 gathering pace

[Jhye Clark 13]

There's nothing to be upset about , it's more embarrassment that all cats supporters are behind this rewrite of history with no case.

17 is greater than 13 so I understand your angst.

 

[Aristotle Pickett]

17 is greater than 13 so I understand your angst.

Claim them if you want, but you'll look like a clown.

 

[Sttew]

Sure acknowledge history but don't reinvent history to claim non-existent premierships .
Colin Carter is a Geelong supporter and there's nothing new in his research.
Like I said the people 100 years ago decided the appropriate parameters. They were much closer in time to the 1870's than Colin is.
It's a bit embarrassing from Colin to be honest , so is the money he's is making from the book.

I agree we can the idea of backdating, but officially recognise the full history. As I have posted previously if we include pre 1897 premierships then we acknowledge them for what they were, i.e., VFA, just as we should separate VFL and AFL premierships.

Sure the rules in the 19thC were loose, but they are now officially acknowledged. Some of the early VFL premierships were 'non-existent' too, but we accept them now.

 

[hawkman]

There's more chance of Essendon winning a final than there is of premierships being back dated!

I wouldn't be so sure of that. The chance of premierships being backdated is greater than 0

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Let's just count them from when the competition had the teams it has now (ie since 2012 when GWS joined). Oh look, Richmond's equal 1st!

Seriously, if Geelong need to feel better about themselves by counting flags won in the 1800s when grand finals weren't even played, maybe we should look at their collective mental health

I'm not that bothered about GFs not being played.. the finals series has changed heaps of times, I've also heard people say the challenge system was unfair and shouldn't really count as there wasn't a "grand final"... that doesn't matter to me, as a premiership was won under the league's rules at the time. It's legitimate.

But when you look at this proposal and it includes years when THE LEAGUE DIDN'T EVEN AWARD A PREMIERSHIP(!) I mean seriously... and it's Geelong who benefitted the most from it. Colin Carter, I cannot see how this is even being taken seriously, it's laughable.

The VFA premiership was established in 1888 so if you must, surely only 1888 - 1896 gets added. That at least makes some sense.

Essendon would benefit the most with four extra flags... but I still think it's a dumb idea... Essendon recognise and celebrate those flags... but they're not part of the VFL/AFL, so the VFL/AFL doesn't have to.

 

[Sttew]

Claim them if you want, but you'll look like a clown.

Luckily we are anonymous

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

Claim them if you want, but you'll look like a clown.

Luckily I care little for you opinion.

The only person who appears like a clown is you ... Frequenting every Geelong related thread at every opportunity. We should charge you rent.

 

[Aristotle Pickett]

Luckily I care little for you opinion.

The only person who appears like a clown is you ... Frequenting every Geelong related thread at every opportunity. We should charge you rent.

It's not a Geelong thread.

 

[EBERT THE KING]

Should be from 1990 onwards.

I.e Carlton - 1 AFL premiership, 15 VFL premierships
Port -1 AFL premiership - 35 SANFL premierships

Thats how they should be described

 

[Noidnadroj]

They're not premierships though. You can't make them premierships 150 years later.
Some of the teams in that supposed VFA were one horse towns.
The official VFL premierships were agreed 100 years ago, you can't go back in time and change things just to suit some whim.

This is the essence of the problem. The decision was made 125-years ago to start the premiership counts at zero for the newly formed VFL clubs. How do any of us possibly know the discussions, motivations, logic, emotion etc… behind that decision of the day?

Maybe it was a verbal agreement from some of the teams that they’d break away and form the VFL, but only if the Premiership count was reset. Maybe it was decided carrying over ‘Mickey mouse’ flags into their newly established and more ‘professional’ competition was not appropriate ?? Why are we so arrogant to believe we now are in a better position to decide what’s right 125-years after the fact? Why do we do arrogantly believe the decision to wipe their prior flags wasn’t something discussed seriously and in great detail, with much thought out into that outcome?

Imagine the decision was made in 1990 to establish the AFL, reset premierships to zero to ensure all teams had an equal chance to strive for the top of the flag count, make sure all stakeholders were happy etc… and we then run with that arrangement until 2115.

But then in 2115 someone pops their head up and starts reading into all these flags that were won in the ‘VFL’ prior to 1990, and insists they are added to the AFL count that has spent 125-years establishing its historical relevance. Overriding the decision that was made by the lawmakers of the day 125-years prior to reset flags to zero.

It’s just an arrogant and mindnumbingly silly concept.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[Wargreymon90]

Should be from 1990 onwards.

I.e Carlton - 1 AFL premiership, 15 VFL premierships
Port -1 AFL premiership - 35 SANFL premierships

Thats how they should be described

This. It’s not hard.

 

[WilloTree]

"Geelong v South Melbourne played on 4 September 1886 is, arguably, the most important Aussie Rules game to be played in the 19th century

I loved reading the summary of this game.

South Melbourne opened the match with a moment of trickery: as Roy lined up for the kick-off, Harper snuck in from the side and kicked off almost at right angles...

then later

...this was partly blamed on the blustery breeze and even on the condition of the old football which South Melbourne had supplied.

South Melbourne kicked 1 goal for the game to Geelong's 4. What a spectacle!

 

[Papa G]

come to think of it…every AFL team should link their VFL Team to a name of the past.

Thus:

Brisbane - Fitzroy Bears
Carlton - Cockatoos
Collingwood - Brittania
Essendon - Same old’s
Geelong - Pivitonians
Gold Coast - Lifesavers?
GWS - ?
North Melbourne - Shinboners
Richmond - Wasps
Sydney - South Melbourne Bloods
Western - Footscray

You forgot
Hawthorn- Mayblooms

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

Even though my club would benefit from it, it's a no from me.
The VFL was a breakaway league that has nothing to do with the VFA.
Completely different to the VFL branching out and rebranding as the AFL.

 

[Sentinel]

Incredible piece of literature.

Even the title line of his book is baloney.

"Reclaiming the AFL Competition's Earliest Years" doesn't make sense when said competition didn't actually exist until 1897. That's not up for debate, it's literally a fact - the Victorian Football League (now the Australian Football League) was non-existent during the period that his book covers. There was football, but not in that competion.

You can't simply fake history just because it suits you. The AFL Competition's earliest years began in 1897.

 

[Ricky Vaughn]

I think people are more concerned about the shockingly low self esteem and deep feelings of insecurity that leads a group of people to come to a proposal like this.
Most of us just want to help.
I for one think it's a wonderful idea if it makes you feel even a little bit better about your collective selves. But I wonder what bought you to feeling so inferior to the rest of us.

I’m concerned too. Geelong have won 17 flags, should it matter to you, or any other Richmond fan? No.
It clearly does, I just can’t work out why.

Your flags aren’t devalued, you’ve won either more or less than 17 (I honestly don’t care which and I won’t look it up). Have some pride in your own club, don’t focus on the history of other clubs because their success makes you feel small.

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

Should be from 1990 onwards.

I.e Carlton - 1 AFL premiership, 15 VFL premierships
Port -1 AFL premiership - 35 SANFL premierships

Thats how they should be described

Wrong.
The SANFL didn't invite interstate sides to join their comp and rebrand itself as the AFL.
VFL = AFL
VFA =/= VFL
SANFL =/= VFL
SANFL =/= AFL

 

[Ricky Vaughn]

No, I'm more embarrassed for Geelong supporters to be honest. Have some dignity.

No need to be embarrassed. How ever many flags Richmond has won is a great effort.

Us Cats fans are super proud.

We’ve won 17 flags as a point of reference.

 

[Sttew]

I loved reading the summary of this game.

South Melbourne opened the match with a moment of trickery: as Roy lined up for the kick-off, Harper snuck in from the side and kicked off almost at right angles...

then later

...this was partly blamed on the blustery breeze and even on the condition of the old football which South Melbourne had supplied.

South Melbourne kicked 1 goal for the game to Geelong's 4. What a spectacle!

The football probably weighed a few kgs.

What surprised me too is that in the early days there were different sets of rules. The 'Geelong rules' and the 'Melbourne Rules'. I wonder what it was like in SA and WA?

 

[EBERT THE KING]

Wrong.
The SANFL didn't invite interstate sides to join their comp and rebrand itself as the AFL.
VFL = AFL
VFA =/= VFL
SANFL =/= VFL
SANFL =/= AFL

Nope. The vfl was no better than the SANFL or WAFL before becoming the AFL.

Saying your the premier means your the best. Theres no way of knowing who was prior to the creation of the AFL.

 

[Walshawk]

This is one of the most ridiculous things I have ever heard. The whole justification from including flags from 1897 is that it is the same competition. If we start including 'premierships' from a different competition, we would also have to include Port Adelaide SANFL flags.

 

[Sentinel]

The football probably weighed a few kgs.

What surprised me too is that in the early days there were different sets of rules. The 'Geelong rules' and the 'Melbourne Rules'. I wonder what it was like in SA and WA?

'Geelong rules' are still a thing I'm pretty sure.

 

[hawkman]

'Geelong rules' are still a thing I'm pretty sure.

Another 5 pages to come from Richmond posters many of them mentioning SHocking

 

[Kwality]

Claim them if you want, but you'll look like a clown.

We all know a VFL flag differs from a VFA flag or an AFL flag.

 

[beema limapep]

Another 5 pages to come from Richmond posters many of them mentioning SHocking

SHocking.