The '' Back to Back '' Crows of 1997/98

[crows dude]

Andrew Eccles


Now that's a blast from the past. Did he kick 5 on debut vs West Coast 1998? Or did he play before that game. BTW How ******* Good was Andrew McLeod?

B2B Norm Smith. Gun. What about those 7 goals in the 1998 Prelim? On another planet that fella.

It was his Eccles 6th match of the year. Kicked 4.3

Macca was a star. Ripped off in 2001 Brownlow. Should have won

 

[Jibroni]

Its still pains me that we beat Adelaide in 98 1st final but because of the system in play they still made the GF.

But Andrew Mcleods performance against the Dogs in the 98 prelim is one of the greatest finals matches I have ever seen. Possibly better than his GF's.

 

[btdg]

I agreed with everything else you wrote. It was a good post. I just don't like the sentiment you've expressed in the line I've quoted.

It's true, the Crows surprised many people by snaffling back-to-back flags from 4th and 5th positions on the ladder. Maybe they weren't a dominant team across those seasons. They also came from nowhere (11th, 11th, 12th from 1994-96) and they sank without a trace (13th in 1999, 11th in 2000)

But the whole purpose is to win the flag. We honour the team who hoists the premiership cup. Nobody cares about the who was supposedly the "best team" prior to Grand Final day. Nobody cares about stupid pissing contests on Big Footy where one-eyed nuffs argue endlessly about which team enjoyed the "greatest dynasty"... Nobody cares where they rate on Dan26's annual rankings of every premiership team. All that bullshit gives us something to argue about and pass the time.... But it's irrelevant.

The Crows 1997 and 1998 premierships aren't discounted. They are worth the same as every other premiership.
If anything, the premierships won by underrated, unfancied underdog teams are more celebrated.



Collingwood 1990.... "bunch of hacks... worst premiership team ever"... Pfft! tell that to the Magpie Army who invaded Hoddle Street and Victoria Park that night and celebrated their first flag in 32 years.

Essendon 1993... "Fluke!" Yeah, maybe it was a flukey flag, but what a glorious fluke it was. I reckon Bombers fans enjoyed that one more than 1985 or 2000 when they were an unstoppable juggernaut.



Adelaide 1997, 1998

Sydney 2005

Hawthorn 2008

Bulldogs 2017

West Coast 2018


None of these teams would make anyone's list of greatest premiership teams of all time. But I reckon they would all be ranked inside the top 10 for how much joy they brought to the winning clubs and how fondly they are remembered.

The footy world should join in and celebrate these teams instead of sneering how they weren't the best team and how they got lucky, etc, etc... It's kind of weird the way we disrespect these premiership teams who played "above themselves" and won against the odds.

I meant discounted in the popular imagination. Obviously a premiership is what it is.

The team weren't as dominant as others but who cares. If you win the premiership you get to keep the cup - doesn't matter how you get there...

There is a footnote on the three consecutive finals from '97-'99 which is the garbage finals system used. The worst example was Carlton finishing 6th in 99, losing by 70 points in their first final, then hosting 5th placed West Coast who WON their first final at the MCG.

But '97 would have been interesting with the current finals series, and what would have been objectively an easier path to the premiership. If they beat St Kilda week 1, then its an obviously easier route via a home prelim. If they lose to St Kilda then they likely need to win three of the exact same games they won in reality (WC, bullDogs, @St Kilda), which is still obviously easier than winning those 3 AND beating Geelong...

 

[demondavey]

Lions dynasty
Hawks 13-15
Cats 07-11
Dons 00
Crows 97-98

My top 5 GF teams of the afl era
Beat two high quality opponents across both years
Great stars but also some underrated guns in johnson, goodwin, hart and caven.

You cannot seriously have Essendon above them.

 

[demondavey]

Back to back when Vic bias was peaking. Better than Hawthorn of 13-15.

 

[Footy_Fan2007]

Back to back when Vic bias was peaking. Better than Hawthorn of 13-15.

Let’s not get too carried away mate.
That Hawks team is far superior.

 

[demondavey]

Let’s not get too carried away mate.
That Hawks team is far superior.

They beat 3 non vic sides at their home ground. Counts for so much less.

 

[demondavey]

Lions
Geelong
Crows
Hawks

That order.

 

[Footy_Fan2007]

Lions
Geelong
Crows
Hawks

That order.

Where do you rate Richmond? Behind the Crows?

 

[demondavey]

Where do you rate Richmond? Behind the Crows?

Forgot them. Yep, behind Adelaide. Flogging non Victorian sides at your home ground is bullshit.

Brisbane
Geelong
Adelaide
Hawthorn
Richmond

Whilst the McIntyre system was flawed, you’ve got to remember what Adelaide did in both those years.

1997
Won 2 home finals and won 2 away finals (PF and GF)

1998
Lost away final
Won three away finals

Honestly. The flogging Hawthorn and Richmond dished out at the G with basically decked out home crowds isn’t a streak of piss on what Adelaide had to do in the nineties when it was so much more Vic centric.

Geelong are a bit different. 2007 they’re beating anyone. 2009 and 2011 they beat genuine Victorian competition.

 

[demondavey]

Under the modern system they wouldn't have won the flag in 1998. They finished outside the top four that year, lost a finals game and still got a second bite at the cherry!

That was the system they had in place back then and credit where it's due, the Crows made the most of the opportunity. We wouldn't have made the grand final in 1999 either under the current rules.

We lost a finals game that year and we still got a second chance, despite not finishing in the top four! I consider that Crows team to be a good one not a great one.

That flag in 1998 was very fortuitous i think, and North Melbourne beat themselves in that grand final by kicking the game away imo.

In 1998 they won 3 finals in a row, away. Some good sides have done that;

Brisbane (03)
WC (06)
Hawthorn (15)
WB (16)
Richmond (20)

McIntyre gave them some luck but they had some serious competition after that loss to Melbourne.

 

[demondavey]

Myself like many other North fans reckon that we probably should have won 98, but lost 99.
95 no one was beating Carlton
97 we had injuries to too many key players throughout the year and were never really a threat
The only other one that we might have been a decent chance was 94 against the Eagles had we got there

1994 against the Eagles would have been closer to an 8 point margin than the 80 Geelong were rinsed by.

 

[Rod Stroker]

1994 against the Eagles would have been closer to an 8 point margin than the 80 Geelong were rinsed by.

Not sure we would have won it, but yeah we would have got a lot closer than 80 points.

Carey vs Jakovich would have been epic.

 

[Freomaniac]

As a Crows supporter, our premiership sides were good sides but not great sides. As Lethal said, super September teams, though we did ride our luck, as most premiership sides do, especially in 1998. I say that as I think Sydney beat St Kilda by less than a kick in the first week of the finals. If St Kilda had of won that game, we were out.

Just a point on the old finals system, which had its flaws. In the first year of the new system in 1999 Carlton, who finished 6th, were thrashed by Brisbane at The Gabba in the first week of the finals. In the second week they were able to play at the MCG against West Coast who had beaten the Western Bulldogs in Melbourne the week before. If that game had been played in Perth, as it should have been, one would question if Carlton would ever have made the 1999 GF.


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Yep that final 8 system in 1994-99 was flawed.

Crows in 1997-8 played their best footy in the right time.

I am shocked the crows didnt add more flags after 1998. Crows made a few on prelims between 1999-2016. They were 2002, 2005-6 and 2012. 2005-6 when neil craig was coach was their best chance in that period, especially 2006.

 

[Freomaniac]

HAHAHA

No Modra
No Riccuito
No Vardy
Jameson Hammy Injured in first qtr losing our full back for Heatley forcing Hart to play on Heatley.
Yet it was St Kildas bad luck

cuts both ways to be honest.

Peter Vardy on a good day was a freak and a very Dangerous player. Had a good habit of kicking goals in Key games or moments like Darren Jarman did.

 

[demondavey]

The Crows didn’t know it was a dead rubber at the time though did they? The Melb v Adel game was the second final played. If I remember the system correctly, had both Sydney and the Bulldogs lost later games the Crows would have been eliminated.
Obviously didnt’t happen and would be unlucky if it did, but enough of a possibility not to treat the game as a dead rubber,

West coast and Essendon were 7th and 8th and both lost. Lowest ranked losers are eliminated. St Kilda also lost who were 6th. So the bottom 4 all lost but Adelaide was in the best place due to being higher ranked at 5th.

The top 4 was pretty strong that year. What really surprised me was how much Adelaide beat the WB by in the PF. It was 68 points. Huge. Unsure what happened to the WB that day.

 

[crows dude]

West coast and Essendon were 7th and 8th and both lost. Lowest ranked losers are eliminated. St Kilda also lost who were 6th. So the bottom 4 all lost but Adelaide was in the best place due to being higher ranked at 5th.

The top 4 was pretty strong that year. What really surprised me was how much Adelaide beat the WB by in the PF. It was 68 points. Huge. Unsure what happened to the WB that day.

Andrew McLeod happend.

And Matty Robran had probably his best ever game

 

[Gavin Excell]

Its still pains me that we beat Adelaide in 98 1st final but because of the system in play they still made the GF.

But Andrew Mcleods performance against the Dogs in the 98 prelim is one of the greatest finals matches I have ever seen. Possibly better than his GF's.

1998 PF is sort of forgotten
They destroyed Bulldogs with one of the more attacking games played in finals

 

[Freomaniac]

Andrew McLeod happend.

And Matty Robran had probably his best ever game

Matty Robran is another player that peaked in 1997-8 too.

And yes Robran is a Famous SANFL last name too

Barry Robran won 3 magarey Medals and 2 SANFL flags with North Adelaide. This was in the 1960s and 1970s, so way before my time.