Training 2023 Pre-season thread

[rye]

Sharp’s disposal really let’s him down.

Depending on Berry’s fitness, I’d probably go with Ashcroft, Wilmot and one of Ah Che or Prior.

I genuinely believe we need one of Dev or Mathieson in the side (or Lyons), doing the grunt work.

Neale is very good at swooping on the loose ground ball in a contest, but I’ve noticed he’s not in there banging bodies as much in contests.

surely this will be dunkley's domain?

 

[Nunez]

surely this will be dunkley's domain?

Dunkley and Rayner, short of Rayner legitimately playing in the backline which I don't expect will happen. Think we'll end up with Dunkley on the ball and rotating forward, where Rayner will move on the ball.

 

[Grassy75]

We're in trouble if Gardiner can't get up by the mid season break. We just don't appear to have another tall or medium tall defender that can actually play against AFL forwards, or that Fagan trusts.

Do you mean Adams? I thought Gardner was tracking well to be up in the first few rounds. Agree if you mean Adams, as soon as he was out I feared the season was over.

 

[Section 5]

Sharp’s disposal really let’s him down.

Depending on Berry’s fitness, I’d probably go with Ashcroft, Wilmot and one of Ah Che or Prior. (A)

I genuinely believe we need one of Dev or Mathieson in the side (or Lyons), doing the grunt work. (B)

Neale is very good at swooping on the loose ground ball in a contest, but I’ve noticed he’s not in there banging bodies as much in contests.

Be interested in your best 22/23 that includes 3 of (A) then finding room for (B)

 

[Dalions]

I was sitting there watching the game with Briztoon last night and saw all of the things that he saw.
And as uninspiring as a hit out it was, not sure it’s quite time for the death of the Lions speech just yet.
The backline is a bit of a concern with Gardiner, Lester and Joyce all sitting on the sidelines yesterday.
Payne was very good early in the game when defending against the VFL forwards but was under a bit more pressure late when things swapped around, but in his defence was pretty much the sole decent height defender against the best of our forwards.

 

[Section 5]

Looking at the last two whireboard photos I don't think the coaching staff have settled on the wingers for the opening round.

Below are the other player positions white boards for those interested.
Teams went into rooms at half time for an extended break so unable to get the 3rd quarter teams.
i think they wanted part of the game to be more under night conditions for the Cats game. They got that in the last quarter.
It was much harder to get the images this week.
The order is Maroon then Red 1st quarter, 2nd quarter, no 3rd then 4th quarter.
For those unaware we have two Dunkley and Rayner brothers playing
They are listed as Dunkley K (Kyle) and Rayner L (Locky)

 

[BlackBrownWhite]

Went along last night and thought for a pre season scratch match the game was at a level to be expected.
There was also a breeze blowing towards the station end that seemed to affect quite a few kicks in the first two quarters.
Coupled with the warm conditions meaning the ball would have been a bit greasy from sweat and the Teams being a mixture of A and B players ,the first half was a scrappy affair.
In the second half with most of the A team in one side ,it became noticeable the longer the game went of the difference in skill levels. As noted B team often won the ball only to turn it over with rushed disposal immediately.
Couple of things that I noted were Jack Payne appears to have been working on his spoiling,I thought last year that too often he would spoil but not kill it to the boundary,last night he easily won the golden fist award and I thought played well.
Darcy Wilmott looks better every time he plays and seems to have grown a bit as well as filling out.
Ashcroft,Gunston and Dunkley have added enormously to our fire power,if Ashcroft plays off half forward I think he could easily kick 20 - 25 goals whilst having a run through the middle this season.
Lastly Cocky looks like he rolled an ankle as he had it on ice after the game.
Would love to see him have a huge year but time is running out.
Its looking like its going to be an exciting season…


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[Berrygood]

Unusually for me, I'm also a little more upbeat after today's game than (a) briztoon and (b) I was last week. I thought our midfield defended much better (both midfield groups in the first half), and while it made for a scrappy affair in Q2 as Mr Ripper pointed out, I think we needed a bit of that after what I thought was a poor effort in that regard last week. Even with the ball I thought there was a bit more run from behind to handball receive than in previous years. Whether that translates to AFL level, only time will tell.

That said, if briz does turn out to be correct and this turns into another wasted season, then we absolutely do need a new head coach and probably a whole new coaching group next year. The time for excuses has well and truly come and gone.

I agree that we may need to improve on some of our line coaches.

I'm not convinced on the midfield coach we got from Carlton, can't think of his name atm, I don't see any real improvement since he's been here. I'm also not convinced Hudson's move to fwd coach will be beneficial either. I'm hoping Adcock's move to defense pays dividends, it was where he played and he should be more knowledgeable there. I think I've got those coaching positions right, gladly corrected if wrong. Either way I think we're operating with a B grade staff there. We could certainly upgrade.

As far as Fages goes as head coach, I'm more than happy to stick with him. He still has the confidence and support of the players, is a wonderful man manager, communicator and motivator, and has got better each year tactically. Give him an A grade support staff before we judge him too harshly.

 

[The Flying Belgian]

Man, some people work themselves up into a tizzy over match sims. "Scrappy" has been the most-used word to describe club intras back as far as I can remmber (including the premiership years). Wasn't able to attend myself, but from the sounds of it this was the first time we'd played periods with equalling opponents. Only to be expected once the intensity ramps up, so do the mistakes. For most of the pre-season, training (even the contested work) doesn't have any real consequences. Once the stakes start getting raised the players will need to adjust their decision-making processes. It's all part of the build.

 

[Section 5]

My take on how the Lions sims and the 1 or 2 official trial games over the past few years.
As i mentioned before briztoon comments have some merit, but like some others i am not overly concerned at this point.
However, i think the Lions approach to these games may be a bit different to other clubs. This is just a guess on my part.

First is to get players that have had off season surgery ready for round one or close to it. The same for injured players.
No rushing players back just to get sim game time. Senior players that are ready R 1 but a little underdone will play, fringe players won't.
The intensity may not be as high as it may be in other club sims. Result less injuries to the playing group and no punch ups like some clubs.
In general, the later part of preseason sim matches are A v B team. Result a few thrashings to the B team and not all that entertaining.
Playing the A team together allows cohesion and helps new best 22 players gel with their respective group.
Lions have a fairly settled 20 players so there are only a few spots up for grabs baring injuries. Result limited number of players trial for those spots.
The teams are coached by the assistants with i assume some guidelines from Fagan.

Going into season 2023 my expectations are not as high as some. No worse than last year's 6th (H&A) at this point.
Every team will improve, and the competition looks like it is evening out a bit.
You can't win a premiership in the first 8 weeks, but you can lose sight of it.

 

[DashinD]

Wilmott looked good last night. He’s tracking well for Round 1 selection I reckon.

 

[Tom14]

First briztoon melt for the year

****Extrapolating from practice games is silly but agree that this is a make or break year for Fages. Suspect he has taken us as far as he can and we'll thank him for his service at the end of the year and move on to a different coach.

 

[lionshine]

Man, some people work themselves up into a tizzy over match sims. "Scrappy" has been the most-used word to describe club intras back as far as I can remmber (including the premiership years). Wasn't able to attend myself, but from the sounds of it this was the first time we'd played periods with equalling opponents. Only to be expected once the intensity ramps up, so do the mistakes. For most of the pre-season, training (even the contested work) doesn't have any real consequences. Once the stakes start getting raised the players will need to adjust their decision-making processes. It's all part of the build.

Yep. Don’t expect the “scrappy” nature of our play to improve all that much against Sydney/Geelong either. We will likely look a touch off for the first few rounds as well as all clubs do. I’d almost be more concerned if we were looking at our best right now. No one wants to peak in the pre season.

 

[lionshine]

Great to hear Wilmot is playing well. He could have easily been draft eligible last year and went top 10 alongside Ashcroft so the thought of having two first round draftees in our side come Round 1 is incredibly exciting and even more so when you consider the talent they have and their ability to raise our teams floor.

Ashcroft is as ready made as a top draftee comes and Wilmot has had a year and 3 finals games under his belt to develop his craft. I am confident Wilmot will match the talent level and rise of guys like Bailey and Starcevich.

 

[briztoon]

On Lyons, you just rarely notice him in a game. Dev and Mathieson standout

Be interested in your best 22/23 that includes 3 of (A) then finding room for (B)

My best 22 doesn’t have 3 of A in the team, because I’d probably have McCluggage and Ashcroft on the wings, with Wilmot as the sub wing.

I’m at work, so will give my best 22 some thought and reply at lunch.

 

[BangyBangy]

If we win the premiership this year I think we should get rid of Fagan. He's taken us as far as he can if we win a premiership. Time for someone new who can take us beyond winning a premiership.

 

[M Malice]

sounds concerning but reserving judgement until proper practice matches against sydney / geelong

From my recollection over the years even official practice matches mean very little as far as form in the regular season is concerned.

All I really hope for is an injury free run of intra clubs and practice matches.

 

[Scubaveg]

Looking at the last two whireboard photos I don't think the coaching staff have settled on the wingers for the opening round.

Agreed, Berry will come back into to one spot. Seems to me Willmot and Sharp is ahead of AhChee, Answerth and McKenna at this stage.


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[briztoon]

Do you mean Adams? I thought Gardner was tracking well to be up in the first few rounds. Agree if you mean Adams, as soon as he was out I feared the season was over.

Hasn’t played in a preseason game yet.

So I question if his shoulders are up to the crash and bash of his position and style of play.

 

[Warwick]

We’ve gone from writing off the team in the first half of the first game, to writing them off in the first practice game, to now the match sims.

It’s quite an effort.

Heaven help a spilt mark in the first training run next year.

 

[Mighty Lions]

From my recollection over the years even official practice matches mean very little as far as form in the regular season is concerned.

All I really hope for is an injury free run of intra clubs and practice matches.

Yeah...thought I've heard it all on Big Footy until I read some posters views and outlook moving into the Round 1 based on intra club practice match's....gave me a chuckle anyways.
SACK THE COACH NOW I SAY BEFORE HE DOES TOO MUCH DAMAGE!!!

 

[briztoon]

First briztoon melt for the year

****Extrapolating from practice games is silly but agree that this is a make or break year for Fages. Suspect he has taken us as far as he can and we'll thank him for his service at the end of the year and move on to a different coach.

That wasn’t a melt.

I’ll probably reserve that for our first flogging at the hands of the Tigers/Geelong/Melbourne/Sydney. Heaven forbid if Essendon or Collingwood do a number on us.

 

[briztoon]

I just gave my opinion on what I observed yesterday afternoon.

Apart from Lachie, Gunston and maybe Andrews, I wouldn’t say any other players were coasting through the sim.

The top ups were certainly giving heat to the A team.

Things I thought were problems from previous seasons, still appear to problems during the match sims.

I didn’t notice anything new in terms of team structures (apart from Rayner and Fullerton playing back), and I didn’t notice any new team tactics.

 

[Nunez]

I just gave my opinion on what I observed yesterday afternoon.

Apart from Lachie, Gunston and maybe Andrews, I wouldn’t say any other players were coasting through the sim.

The top ups were certainly giving heat to the A team.

Things I thought were problems from previous seasons, still appear to problems during the match sims.

I didn’t notice anything new in terms of team structures (apart from Rayner and Fullerton playing back), and I didn’t notice any new team tactics.

Scratchies are more around giving players a run and getting synergy, not implementing match day tactics. Especially in A v B setups, trying to do a match day strategy is incredibly tricky due to how lopsided the teams are. If you noticed new tactics, I'd have been more concerned we were overcomplicating a scratch match!

 

[M Malice]

I just gave my opinion on what I observed yesterday afternoon.

Apart from Lachie, Gunston and maybe Andrews, I wouldn’t say any other players were coasting through the sim.

The top ups were certainly giving heat to the A team.

Things I thought were problems from previous seasons, still appear to problems during the match sims.

I didn’t notice anything new in terms of team structures (apart from Rayner and Fullerton playing back), and I didn’t notice any new team tactics.

What do you think of Rayner as a possible long term 3rd tall back option in the Gardiner role briz?

Maybe Fagan is looking for more defensive pressure in the forward half, has Kai Lohmann been playing match sims or is he injured?