List Mgmt. 2023 Trade & List Management discussion

[martinson]

He's taken a bunch of contested marks

I see he has. In the VFL. It's something he's struggled with from time to time . I'd love it if he can replicate it at Senior level.

I think I was the one sticking up for him here every time there was a melt when he got selected the last couple of years. I saw him play early this season and was a bit deflated tbh but he's obviously hit his straps of late. We 'll likely need him at some point this season.

 

[Nunez]

I see he has. In the VFL. It's something he's struggled with from time to time . I'd love it if he can replicate it at Senior level.

I think I was the one sticking up for him here every time there was a melt when he got selected the last couple of years. I saw him play early this season and was a bit deflated tbh but he's obviously hit his straps of late. We 'll likely need him at some point this season.

The biggest thing with Tom is confidence IMO. I think he's finally found some belief and confidence in his ability and we're starting to see the impact.

 

[knaf]

From what I have seen of Kalin Lane his kicking is atrocious, IMO Henry Smith is the better long term ruck prospect.

Yeah/Nah. Yeah Smith probably has better skills, but ruckman don’t need skill. I’ll back Kalin. Hope they both have decent careers.

 

[knaf]

The biggest thing with Tom is confidence IMO. I think he's finally found some belief and confidence in his ability and we're starting to see the impact.

Seems to have grown into his body, if you know what I mean.

 

[martinson]

The biggest thing with Tom is confidence IMO. I think he's finally found some belief and confidence in his ability and we're starting to see the impact.

I often wondered that when he got his chance last season. He gets into good position to win the ball , he's got more than enough agility and pace for someone his size , but just seemed to be indecisive at the last second or a bit confused when he did get it.

I always put it down to lack of confidence till I eventually lost confidence in him. Sometimes you just have to be patient.

 

[BuntonRules]

Tom missed a few years of development, playing basketball. He is close to catching up.

 

[martinson]

Tom missed a few years of development, playing basketball. He is close to catching up.

It feels kinda weird with people giving Tom a leg up because there weren't too many the last 2 or 3 years. Look forward to seeing him go on with it now.

It'd fill a hole in our list if he could.

 

[lionshine]

Treloar still playing at an elite level. Would love for him to move up and play with Dunkley again. Particularly if Zorko retires.

Agree that Himmelberg would be an excellent addition, would like him as a KPD if we were to land him.

 

[Nathan Barley]

An A grade ruck would be handy, or even a B grader, or a young, developing C grade ruck

 

[buttermuffs]

Treloar still playing at an elite level. Would love for him to move up and play with Dunkley again. Particularly if Zorko retires.

Agree that Himmelberg would be an excellent addition, would like him as a KPD if we were to land him.

I don’t think we’d actively be recruiting Treloar. His kick is very ordinary and with out very kick heavy game it probably wouldn’t translate well at all.

Himmelberg would be a great get. Very versatile and we are very used to having set KPP’s essentially each year so if there very strong competition between Joyce, Gardiner and Gunston for one the the last tall spots I would be all for it.

As others have mentioned he probably my prefers playing forward and I think we would definitely have a spot for him. Gunston is only here for this year and next more likely and he provides a marking body like McStay.


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[blueiris]

Normally we’d look at Himmelberg but Payne and Joyce have both been really impressive

 

[Tom14]

Normally we’d look at Himmelberg but Payne and Joyce have both been really impressive

Payne's sticking in the team, but Joyce probably is only ever going to be good depth to have. Certainly worth an extension based on what we've seen but not someone you can bank on.

Given Dizzy's injury issues I think a KPD add this off-season is a must, ideally its a star who takes us to the next level but more depth required regardless.

 

[Elixuh]

Surprising that some would even need to pause to consider himmelburg. Gun. Go get him lions.

 

[irel]

Surprising that some would even need to pause to consider himmelburg. Gun. Go get him lions.

Well, I'm one who is pausing to consider himmelburg, but certainly all in for Himmelberg.

 

[Elixuh]

Well, I'm one who is pausing to consider himmelburg, but certainly all in for Himmelberg.

I hope we trade for him now purely so I can misspell his name for the remainder of his career.

 

[irel]

I hope we trade for him now purely so I can misspell his name for the remainder of his career.

Yeah he'll fit right in with Answorth, Willmont, Tanstall, Gardeneir, Roberton, Fullerton, oh yeah not forgeting Fagen.

 

[buttermuffs]

Normally we’d look at Himmelberg but Payne and Joyce have both been really impressive

I agree, but our KPD stocks consist of Andrews, Payne, Joyce and Gardiner. Gardiner may be battling injuries for the rest of him time and that leaves us with no depth at all. Also while Joyce has played well there’s certainly upgrades and Himmelberg is one of them.

Besides, he seems to want to be a KPF but can definitely swing back if we ever dip below three healthy KPD.


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[On the quiet]

Couldn't disagree more, he's exactly what we need to balance out our key defenders, and is athletic enough to play on medium types as well (so are Payne and Dizzy too), and he'd be our best ball user as a key defender as well.

I suspect he wants to play forward though.

Towards the end of last year you were real keen on Logue coming and playing defence, I suppose it was lucky we did not spend our coin on Logue, not that I think we are much hope of getting Harry, unless his parents are still in Brissy (according to media). As I said I think he would be a good addition as a forward, but it is moot, as I can see him playing forward at Richmond. I think he will attract a lot of interest and will be paid in excess of $750K playing as a forward.

I doubt we would want to spend around $700 to $750k for a non-lockdown type 2nd tall type defender. However accepting your point, if Harry did play in our backline playing as our 2nd defender (I don't believe Harry is a true lock down defender), What are you proposing?

That Harris playing in his no preferred lock down role under the goal post, with Harry as the 2nd tall and Gardiner as the third tall (because he has a 3 year contract), and we just let Payne walk away from the club?
Or
does Payne continue to develop and improve playing AFL and we attempt to trade Dizzy (where I believe there was not much interest for him last year when coming out of contract), and we end up in a Witho situation where we are paying part of Dizzy's contract at another club. I can say that neither Payne nor Dizzy are going to accept VFL IF Himmelberg was playing in defence for us.

 

[On the quiet]

Fullerton, Lane and Smith are an interesting group. We have put a fair bit of development into them.

Fullerton, in the VFL, is starting to show he he has the strength to hold his ground which I think was his most obvious weakness. Has skills - fairly good hands and very good below his knees for his size. Looks to be developing good game sense. Useful second ruck now in the VFL. Should be a definite hold as long as he doesn’t get a huge offer to go elsewhere ( unlikely)

Lane starting to look like a Charman clone. Showing more aggression in the ruck. (Finally) starting to take marks around the ground and getting involved at ground level. No finesse, so won’t be elite (in my opinion) but looks ideal to keep developing given the age of Oscar and Fort.

have not seen Smith this year.

I would like to keep Prior, Dev and Noah. I guess Prior would be my priority as he has the skill set and toughness we seem to be lacking. However Noah appears to be developing as a run and carry “ruck rover” type in the VFL. Again giving us a hard at it type in that role.

We should do anything short of selling BHA to get Himmelberg. would be an huge upgrade on Gunston. Gunston can spend his time in the VFL/coach Fullerton and Smith.

I would also very much like to keep Dev and Prior but can see them (and do not blame them) seeking opportunities. Yeap posted a few days ago I not sure Gunston is best 22 in 2024 so would love Harry playing forward for us in 2024.

 

[Tom14]

Towards the end of last year you were real keen on Logue coming and playing defence, I suppose it was lucky we did not spend our coin on Logue, not that I think we are much hope of getting Harry, unless his parents are still in Brissy (according to media). As I said I think he would be a good addition as a forward, but it is moot, as I can see him playing forward at Richmond. I think he will attract a lot of interest and will be paid in excess of $750K playing as a forward.

I doubt we would want to spend around $700 to $750k for a non-lockdown type 2nd tall type defender. However accepting your point, if Harry did play in our backline playing as our 2nd defender (I don't believe Harry is a true lock down defender), What are you proposing?

That Harris playing in his no preferred lock down role under the goal post, with Harry as the 2nd tall and Gardiner as the third tall (because he has a 3 year contract), and we just let Payne walk away from the club?
Or
does Payne continue to develop and improve playing AFL and we attempt to trade Dizzy (where I believe there was not much interest for him last year when coming out of contract), and we end up in a Witho situation where we are paying part of Dizzy's contract at another club. I can say that neither Payne nor Dizzy are going to accept VFL IF Himmelberg was playing in defence for us.

I think himmleberg is athletic enough for us to play all of them, but if we can only play three I’d be having dizzy as the odd man out at this stage.

Mainly, I’d just like us to have a key back who is a better ball user - Harris is ok and Payne has by and large avoided the mistakes but we could use someone who can really help us intercept and rebound.

I’d add as well from our previous interactions you might be thinking that wanting himmelberg is about me not rating Payne - very much not the case as I’ve been impressed with him this year. We are just light on in this area and screwed if anyone gets injured.

 

[On the quiet]

Payne's sticking in the team, but Joyce probably is only ever going to be good depth to have. Certainly worth an extension based on what we've seen but not someone you can bank on.

Given Dizzy's injury issues I think a KPD add this off-season is a must, ideally its a star who takes us to the next level but more depth required regardless.

Just following on from another post of mine regarding this, I just cannot see how we could afford to pay Harry around $700 to $750k pa to play essentially as a 2nd or 3rd tall defender. Not unless Zorko and Rich are on good coin and both retire. We have other players due for upgrades in 2023/2024.

I agree 100% regarding Dizzy but we just signed him to at least a 3 year deal (possible 4 with triggers) so could find ourselves in the situation where we pay some of his remaining contract to another club, similar to Witho. Then we are criticised for treating a loyal player poorly. Joyce has only played about 17 games and will improve, but no question Harry is a huge upgrade, if Dizzy can get back on the park, I think Joyce is handy KPD backup.

I would love to recruit Harry as a forward (we agree that is likely his preferred position), and yes he would be handy as KPD depth, but suspect a big Melbourne club such as Richmond will go hard for him.

 

[On the quiet]

IF we miss out on Himmelberg (which I believe we will, and if Lions are even interested) and Dizzy is not fit or playing inconsistently, it might be worth for at least KPD backup to give Tom Fullarton a full preseason playing back. I do believe we tried Tom Fullarton back in a few match sims and a trial game last year so that might be worth exploring next preseason as some posters have said he is a little more robust and playing better this year in the VFL.

 

[On the quiet]

I often wondered that when he got his chance last season. He gets into good position to win the ball , he's got more than enough agility and pace for someone his size , but just seemed to be indecisive at the last second or a bit confused when he did get it.

I always put it down to lack of confidence till I eventually lost confidence in him. Sometimes you just have to be patient.

Yes i think so, last couple of years Payne, Dev, Prior and Tom come in for a few games and then are dropped when more seasoned players return from injury. That happens at strong clubs, but for the individual it is probably a bit disheartening (i am not saying gift AFL games) and impacts on building consistency and overall confidence. That said, Tom just has to keep playing well in the VFL and take his opportunity when it presents. I believe he gets some AFL games during this season, and he needs to play well, because he has been on our list since mid 2018.

 

[M Malice]

Dom Fay on The Roar Deal today said that if a spot opens up on the list for the mid season draft he thinks Harrison Arnold would be the obvious choice... they were talking about Darcy Gardiner

27

Darcy Gardiner

Age

30

Ht

192cm

Wt

91kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.6

3star

K

7.4

3star

HB

5.2

4star

M

4.1

4star

T

2.1

4star

G

0.0

1star

D

10.7

3star

K

7.9

3star

HB

2.9

2star

M

3.7

4star

T

2.1

3star

G

0.0

1star

D

10.2

3star

K

6.0

3star

HB

4.2

4star

M

3.6

4star

T

1.8

4star

G

0.0

1star

's injury problems at the time, they didn't specifically say Darcy is a worry re getting back on the field though.

 

[blueiris]

IF we miss out on Himmelberg (which I believe we will, and if Lions are even interested) and Dizzy is not fit or playing inconsistently, it might be worth for at least KPD backup to give Tom Fullarton a full preseason playing back. I do believe we tried Tom Fullarton back in a few match sims and a trial game last year so that might be worth exploring next preseason as some posters have said he is a little more robust and playing better this year in the VFL.

Full cream milk has been very impressive as a forward Ruck at VFL level but 3 200cm forwards are probably too many in the AFL we have been using rather small defenders at VFL compared to our AFL team this year