Strategy Trade and List management Thread Part 6 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

[Dog 36]

I’d call Mitchell a star though, he was in the top 10 of mids for years

May be yes but still they targeted him for a role they saw would help them

 

[Del203211]

Pace. All about pace and ball use these days. Lesson to be learnt.

 

[BulldogMuscle]

I understand why the club wants to sell the farm to get an x-factor small forward like Watson.

 

[House_of_Dahl]

Pace. All about pace and ball use these days. Lesson to be learnt.

McKercher and Watson have both in spades

 

[TedDougChris]

McKercher and Watson have both in spades

Can we get any of them ??? That’s the thing - can we actually get them with Pick 4 - particularly if it drifts out ???

 

[weltschmerz]

Can we get any of them ??? That’s the thing - can we actually get them with Pick 4 - particularly if it drifts out ???

Reckon so. I think the top 6 is Reid, Walter, Curtin, McKercher, Duursma, and Watson. Likely in that order, but North could take Watson over McKercher. McKay compensation drops 4 to 5 and Walter bid drops it to 6.

 

[Mofra]

Yes and time will tell if we can develop them to play that position or try to make them high half forward or something else

Did we trade for them ? Did we go and identify them and orchestrate a trade to get them ?

We have done plenty of trades where we've identified roles we need help in - Bruce & Keath in one season, Crozier, Lloyd, etc etc

If someone comes along to fill a role we need and we don't have to trade for them, I wouldn't instantly exclude them.

 

[Bald]

Is it poor list management to have all of Baz, English, Marra, Naughty coming out of contract in the same year? Arguably our 4 highest paid players outside of Bont. Not like anyone has jumped out of nowhere, except maybe Marra but even that could have been expected with hindsight.

I dunno maybe it absolutely wasn’t possible, but I would have liked to see us try to stagger those contracts if at all possible. Leaves us in a position where if s**t hits the fan we could find ourselves in an almighty s**t sandwich, trying to maximise trades for 2+ out of contract stars

It’s coincidence. Nothing more.

 

[TiAn_]

What would be the selling point for us to a gun player, other than money?

Coach that looks past it, right in the hot seat and can’t even pitch a player on a regular crack at the top 4 with a straight face. Perhaps losing EFs most years has appeal to a player coming from a cellar dweller. Consistent off field dramas, including an footy department that looks shaky as, and senior players getting moved on or leaving mid career yearly including our most recent B&F who bailed for a demonstrably better run and coached club. Fair risk tethering yourself to our club atm. Just have to pray Naughton, Marra, etc, don’t see it that way.

 

[Ash1337]

Carlton will need to get rid of their future first now that they got Lucas & Ben to draft next year. Should go for both crows and blues future first picks.

 

[coxman]

Carlton will need to get rid of their future first now that they got Lucas & Ben to draft next year. Should go for both crows and blues future first picks.

Yes Carlton have a bit to think about but they may wait till next year also

 

[flipper83]

Agree with you but

Bobby Hill, Darcy Cameron, Mitchell, Markov, Lipinski are no stars.

Not talking about getting the Lynch types Richmond got.

I feel like we've been pretty good at identifying those lower value assets.
I think the difference between our acquisitions and those you've mentioned is that they have gone into teams with a clear game style and clearly defined roles and we don't seem to have clarity in that regard.

 

[Dog 36]

I feel like we've been pretty good at identifying those lower value assets.
I think the difference between our acquisitions and those you've mentioned is that they have gone into teams with a clear game style and clearly defined roles and we don't seem to have clarity in that regard.

Agree
The game style and clearly defined roles help identify the assets whether low value or high

 

[dergert]

If we can get anything like Darcy Moore

30

Darcy Moore

Age

30

Ht

203cm

Wt

100kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.1

3star

K

7.0

3star

HB

4.1

3star

M

4.8

5star

T

1.6

4star

MG

169.1

3star

D

13.9

3star

K

7.3

3star

HB

6.6

4star

M

4.9

5star

T

0.7

1star

MG

182.0

3star

D

6.8

2star

K

4.2

2star

HB

2.6

3star

M

2.6

3star

T

1.8

4star

MG

87.4

2star

out of Croft I am 100% down in decimating our draft hand for two years.

 

[Dogs Rule]

Geelong last year and Collingwood have shown how important Moneyball trading and recruiting is now.

Bobby Hill wasn't a star at GWS, but the potential was there. We need to get involved in trades, not sit back and just get reamed. Get on the front foot and get active, get creative and stop just hoping things will change or improve. Make things improve.

 

[TedDougChris]

Geelong last year and Collingwood have shown how important Moneyball trading and recruiting is now.

Bobby Hill wasn't a star at GWS, but the potential was there. We need to get involved in trades, not sit back and just get reamed. Get on the front foot and get active, get creative and stop just hoping things will change or improve. Make things improve.

I think the problem is, Bevo want's everyone to be a 6 position, versatile player. We'd have Hill playing at FB every second week.

Just identify our gaps and get 2 or 3 guys in to try and fill them. We need wingers, small pacey crumbing pressure forwards and lockdown defenders.

Then develop them in those positions. Not every ****ing position under the sun.

 

[Dogs Rule]

I think the problem is, Bevo want's everyone to be a 6 position, versatile player. We'd have Hill playing at FB every second week.

Just identify our gaps and get 2 or 3 guys in to try and fill them. We need wingers, small pacey crumbing pressure forwards and lockdown defenders.

Then develop them in those positions. Not every ******* position under the sun.

Absolutely. It's like the standing on the mark thing last year. The coach thinking he was smarter than everyone else when in reality everyone else was laughing at him (and us).

Just got to hope we employ assistant coaches with brains and just a bit of common sense to support the coaching box next year.

 

[TedDougChris]

Absolutely. It's like the standing on the mark thing last year. The coach thinking he was smarter than everyone else when in reality everyone else was laughing at him (and us).

Just got to hope we employ assistant coaches with brains and just a bit of common sense to support the coaching box next year.

It's also on Grant (who I loved as a player, but he's wearing it off quickly) to stand up to Bevo and say "accept advice or you're out".

 

[Dog 36]

It's also on Grant (who I loved as a player, but he's wearing it off quickly) to stand up to Bevo and say "accept advice or you're out".

Grant is a huge part of the problem

How he has not been moved on is beyond me

Grant should have been sacked or asked to move on Sunday morning after the Geelong game

Fact Grant is still there means Bev is comfortable where things are at.

 

[Dogs Rule]

It's also on Grant (who I loved as a player, but he's wearing it off quickly) to stand up to Bevo and say "accept advice or you're out".

Problem with Grant it seems is Beveridge has him by the balls. Still thinks he owes Beveridge for delivering a flag seven years ago while the rest of the competition continues to move on and on and we quickly become a laughing stock.

A weak, soft administration leads to the coach doing what he pleases, the scatterbrained approach we see weekly with selection and during games, which leads to a confused playing group which leads to poor results. Vicious circle.

Hope we get a circuit breaker soon and hopefully that starts with the trade and drafts.

 

[Northernsoul74]

McKercher and Watson have both in spades

Yep, that’s why those knocking the proposed deal need to take a breath and think about what we could get. I hate the future 1 being involved but we need to turn the Dunkley compo into something worthwhile. When was the last time we had an opportunity to make a move like this. GC situation offers a chance. The Croft bid forces us to look at something bold with the hand we’ve been dealt.

 

[dergert]

Geelong last year and Collingwood have shown how important Moneyball trading and recruiting is now.

Bobby Hill wasn't a star at GWS, but the potential was there. We need to get involved in trades, not sit back and just get reamed. Get on the front foot and get active, get creative and stop just hoping things will change or improve. Make things improve.

We'll have no one coming in this year mate. Will be a boring two weeks.

 

[Del203211]

McCreery, Hill, Ginnivan - something we don’t have. Pace and genuine smarts around goal.

Elliott is very similar to Weightman.

Whilst the pies won a flag with Mihocek who is a work horse and Frampton who had 2 disposals, the damage was done with their smalls and their pace.

 

[murphy's twin]

We can have our own version of Bobby hill next year in a fitter version of Arty Jones.

Add in Nick Watson and all of a sudden we have great pace next year in the forward line.

 

[BLACAE]

Hill - plays fwd
Crisp (steak knives) - Mid
Frampton - (was brought in as an all sorts)
Will Hoskin-Elliot - Mid
Howe - Def
Cameron - Ruck
Mitchell - Mid
Markov - running def
Lipinski - mid / outside link

Each of these players were brought into the club for a role. Other than Mitchell, none were big names, but they were given a specific purpose. That is the difference between the Pies and us.

• Treloar (played all 3 lines)
• Lobb (played all three lines and wing)
• Croz (played fwd and def)
• Bruce (played 3 lines and stuck in def despite being our best fwd)
• JOD (trained in def, debuted fwd)
• TOB (played fwd and def)
• Hannan (played the 3 lines)

This doesn't include the drafted players who can't get settled:

• VDM
• Richards for a long time
• JJ for a long time
• Smith
• Macrae
• Khamis
• Scott
• McNeil
• Daniel
• Raak

The club needs to bring in players for 1 job, with an ability to back up somewhere else and if it turns out they can no longer fill the roll as with TOB, Croz, Hannan, McNeil, Raak etc than they need to make way. The club also needs to stop creating positions for players because they don't want to drop them. Love Macrae as a player, but he is a midfielder, and he either starts there or plays off the bench. If, however, he is no longer in the best 6 mids.... he doesn't play until he is, and that goes for everyone. There is no point playing him HFF because there are others who will play that role better, such as a Clark, Jones, Garcia, etc. That doesn't mean they're better players, just better HFFs. At Macraes best, he is another contested beast (ave 12 cont poss and 5-6 clearances over the last 5 years) and can take over from Libba

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