Expansion 20th AFL team location

[Coolangatta]

I was just looking at KGV as an option today. It's built right along a disused rail line, which had previously been mooted as a light rail route.

A light rail and an upgraded KGV would probably cost pretty similarly to Mac Point and be more palatable for the non-footy public.

Is anyone in the Tasmania government seriously looking into this as an alternative?

 

[Canberra Pear]

Is anyone in the Tasmania government seriously looking into this as an alternative?

Not that I've seen, just what I think could be a viable alternative.

 

[Howard Littlejohn]

Is anyone in the Tasmania government seriously looking into this as an alternative?

No. The AFL stipulated any venue had to be CBD adjacent, so the obvious solution was ruled out before it was an option.

 

[Cunnington Cartel]

Bellerive only has 11k seats. It has a big hill along one side of the ground for a reason, because it’s hemmed in by a residential street, which inhibits further development. The site selection report ruled it out as a possibility. Any additional cash put into that venue would be a tremendous waste, it won’t happen.

KGV doesn’t meet the AFL’s requirements of an inner-city stadium within walking distance of the CBD. It’s also located in Glenorchy - no thanks!

The report below assessed a number of options with Mac Point and Regatta Point (the site of the 2.0 proposal) being well ahead of other proposed locations. One of those projects just has to get done.

https://www.stategrowth.tas.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0019/412435/2._Hobart_Stadium_-_Site_Selection_Process_Report_-_MCS_Management_and_Consulting_in_conjunction_with_PhilpLighton_Architects.pdf

 

[neogh]

Often hear that we don't need a third team in this city in Australia, because 2 works fine, and every other country has 2 teams in its city.

True in some aspect, its either they're in separate divisions and not really the biggest rivals (See US)

or while there are 2 teams in the city (like the form of City of Melbourne, City of Sydney in the dead centre), there are more teams in the greater area (like suburbs) and at one stage there were 3-4 teams in the greater area (See England).

 

[terrybull]

This is what I said too. The kangaroos brand in North Sydney would have really resonated and the blue compared to the swans red would be a great difference. The only part I disagree with is western sydney, I'm hoping that can work at some point, it just needs a bit of momentum with crowds, then it could catch fire like the swans did. A flag would help.

If this happens then the Swans should be rebranded as South Sydney.

 

[Canberra Pear]

Often hear that we don't need a third team in this city in Australia, because 2 works fine, and every other country has 2 teams in its city.

True in some aspect, its either they're in separate divisions and not really the biggest rivals (See US)

or while there are 2 teams in the city (like the form of City of Melbourne, City of Sydney in the dead centre), there are more teams in the greater area (like suburbs) and at one stage there were 3-4 teams in the greater area (See England).

If you're referring to the EPL as an example, London's the only place that regularly has more than two clubs in a metro area. Which would be equivalent to AFL teams in Melbourne.

Some of the best rivalries are the two-team towns (Man City/Utd, Liverpool/Everton).

The best example of a third team in Australian cities is the A-League with Western United and Macarthur, and they're definitely not examples we should be emulating.

 

[Coolangatta]

If you're referring to the EPL as an example, London's the only place that regularly has more than two clubs in a metro area. Which would be equivalent to AFL teams in Melbourne.

Some of the best rivalries are the two-team towns (Man City/Utd, Liverpool/Everton).

The best example of a third team in Australian cities is the A-League with Western United and Macarthur, and they're definitely not examples we should be emulating.

Yet again another good reason why WA3 shouldn’t be team 20, not to mention, no one of importance is asking for it so far except for some opinionated people online and in media.

A 3rd WA side would make much more sense based out of Perth, therefore it would be better off as a 22nd side in the 2050s.

New Zealand or a second Brisbane team would be a good target for a 21st team, possibly both, depending on how things play out. As big as WA is, we don’t have a Gold Coast like QLD do, it’s not like Fremantle play in Fremantle.

If they had started off with the Falcons and Royals as the Perth sides, with Fremantle coming in the 90s as the third team, they would’ve had three teams already. I suppose the Eagles being a state side and having early success set them on course to be the juggernaut they are today, though. Good luck trying to break that up, Victoria, you conniving bastards.

 

[neogh]

If you're referring to the EPL as an example, London's the only place that regularly has more than two clubs in a metro area. Which would be equivalent to AFL teams in Melbourne.

Some of the best rivalries are the two-team towns (Man City/Utd, Liverpool/Everton).

The best example of a third team in Australian cities is the A-League with Western United and Macarthur, and they're definitely not examples we should be emulating.

That's because those 2 teams are in the dead centre, like Melbourne and Collingwood is, or at least their training centres are.

Wasn't bringing up London here, there are plenty of teams within the metropolitan region of a certain city or region, and for a good amount of seasons they were in the Premier League altogether.

Bolton Wanderers, Wigan in the Greater Manchester area, and in West Midlands where Villa and Birmingham City is but also Wolves and West Brom that contest for the Black Country Derby.



One of my reasons I advocate for a third team in a city, preferably Perth is because we cannot easily merge, relocate or remove teams from the comp. If that was the case then it wouldn't be an issue for me, so the only way is to increase in match for demand.

 

[neogh]

If this happens then the Swans should be rebranded as South Sydney.

Swans don't need to unless they moved south of Sydney.

 

[Cubs2Lions]

One of my reasons I advocate for a third team in a city, preferably Perth is because we cannot easily merge, relocate or remove teams from the comp. If that was the case then it wouldn't be an issue for me, so the only way is to increase in match for demand.

The problem with WA3 is what would the clubs target area and demographic be in the AFL?

Would they be just a generic “Perth Sharks” team that’s located in the CBD of Perth and play all their matches at Optus Stadium while stealing waiting list members from West Coast (which is surprisingly Fremantle hasn’t done) which is the easier option short-term.

OR

Would they target / name it a specific area in WA like Joondalup, Bunbury or Mandurah to build member support in those AFL-rusted areas already and play the odd game or two there with majority still in Perth and while short-term could cause pain, would be a long-term investment.

 

[Canberra Pear]

Wasn't bringing up London here, there are plenty of teams within the metropolitan region of a certain city or region, and for a good amount of seasons they were in the Premier League altogether.

Bolton Wanderers, Wigan in the Greater Manchester area, and in West Midlands where Villa and Birmingham City is but also Wolves and West Brom that contest for the Black Country Derby.

That's pretty much my point. Throw in Villa and Wolves from Birmingham.

How many of the others are currently in the EPL? None of them. Because it's hard to sustain three sides in a league.

One of my reasons I advocate for a third team in a city, preferably Perth is because we cannot easily merge, relocate or remove teams from the comp. If that was the case then it wouldn't be an issue for me, so the only way is to increase in match for demand.

Luckily, there's an obvious location to increase to Team 20 that won't split a city.

If we're looking to increase beyond that, then WA3 starts making sense.

 

[neogh]

That's pretty much my point. Throw in Villa and Wolves from Birmingham.

How many of the others are currently in the EPL? None of them. Because it's hard to sustain three sides in a league.



Luckily, there's an obvious location to increase to Team 20 that won't split a city.

If we're looking to increase beyond that, then WA3 starts making sense.

We don't promotion or relegation in the AFL do we to punish clubs?

And remember those clubs in England are still professional as long they're in the English Football League.

Both Greater Manchester and West Midlands has a population of just under 3 million.

No city in England can rival London.

 

[Canberra Pear]

We don't promotion or relegation in the AFL do we to punish clubs?

Exactly. If we enter a third team from a city, and it turns out to be unsustainable, or takes away support from other teams, or weakens the pre-existing rivalry, there's no way to relegate them out.

And remember those clubs in England are still professional as long they're in the English Football League.

Sure, if you're trying to get to 44 teams like the EPL and EFL combined, then you'd obviously have at least three teams from your biggest cities. But it's debatable for 20 teams.

 

[neogh]

Exactly. If we enter a third team from a city, and it turns out to be unsustainable, or takes away support from other teams, or weakens the pre-existing rivalry, there's no way to relegate them out.



Sure, if you're trying to get to 44 teams like the EPL and EFL combined, then you'd obviously have at least three teams from your biggest cities. But it's debatable for 20 teams.

In England only where the population is 3 times larger.

Expansion teams aim is to take supporters from existing clubs anyway

 

[Coolangatta]

Canberra
New Zealand
2nd Brisbane (combined with Sunshine Coast)
Newcastle
Darwin (possibly combined with Cairns)
Cairns (possibly combined with Darwin)
South West WA
Wollongong (Canberra Pear what do you think about this beyond 20? Too small?)

Are the places I'd look at for expansion but half of those won't likely ever be big enough to be viable. The thing they all have in common is that they won't be third teams in the same city.

 

[Canberra Pear]

In England only where the population is 3 times larger.

Closer to twice as populous. England has 57 million, Australia has 27 million.

We know the problem is too many teams in Victoria, but that's not going to change. So for the rest of Australia to have only 10 teams, there are other places to go before any city gets a third team.

Expansion teams aim is to take supporters from existing clubs anyway

Surely a better strategy for the AFL is to take away supporters from other codes' existing clubs? A third Perth club doesn't add any extra supporters.

 

[terrybull]

Swans don't need to unless they moved south of Sydney.

I know, but it would be more historically correct.

Fans in Melbourne can call it old South vs old North. Or just South vs North like they did before.

 

[Dazb86]

Some outter suburbs in Melbourne need representation.

Somewhere like Pakenham or Cranbourne would be good

 

[Cunnington Cartel]

Some outter suburbs in Melbourne need representation.

Somewhere like Pakenham or Cranbourne would be good

I’d rather see that representation being covered by existing clubs - and that’s pretty much what’s happening already. For example, Melbourne already have their training base at Casey Fields, which is where their VFL and AFLW teams play. It won’t necessarily convert many locals across to support them, but it brings some top-level footy closer to their communities. Also, it gives each club additional catchments to target with school visits and community work.

 

[neogh]

Some outter suburbs in Melbourne need representation.

Somewhere like Pakenham or Cranbourne would be good

There is no way a team in Melbourne, let alone Victoria added as an expansion.

 

[Thailander]

A 3rd Queensland side. You all know it would be elite.

 

[Canberra Pear]

A 3rd Queensland side. You all know it would be elite.

Queensland wouldn't be ready for a third team by the time Team 20 comes in.

But given their overall population, and growth in footy participation, Queensland makes more sense to get a third team before SA does.

 

[SUNS]

I’d love an NT team as much as anyone having grown up there and knowing how much footy means to people there.

But anyone that has actually been there recently should be able to tell you it’s not happening….. it’s a complete mess at the moment. Many stores aren’t even open you have to wave at them to open their doors because they’re sick of being robbed, homelessness, begging, stabbing, gang violence you name it. It’s not safe to even walk to your car after work or visit your local shop and It’s only getting worse.

“Territory-wide, the yearly statistics show assaults over the past 12 months are up by 88 per cent from 2009 — up by nearly 55 per cent in Darwin, and a whopping 148 per cent in Alice Springs”

And it was already a rough place in 2009.


That’s without the travel and lack of resources, population etc.

I think most will be surprised at how far along a potential case for the NT20 team is. There is a lot going on behind the scenes and under the radar.

The issues which you have mentioned are terrible. Definitely not as bad as 'unsafe' it sounds in Darwin but still not great. A lot of the questions that the AFL, all factions of the government and other stakeholders are asking though is 'How could a team potentially help with these issues?'

Most are bullish about the prospects of creating positive pathways and giving Territorians something to look forward to and some hope going forward. Something positive needs to help break the poor cycles and there is every chance this could be it.

 

[Canberra Pear]

I think most will be surprised at how far along a potential case for the NT20 team is. There is a lot going on behind the scenes and under the radar.

The issues which you have mentioned are terrible. Definitely not as bad as 'unsafe' it sounds in Darwin but still not great. A lot of the questions that the AFL, all factions of the government and other stakeholders are asking though is 'How could a team potentially help with these issues?'

Most are bullish about the prospects of creating positive pathways and giving Territorians something to look forward to and some hope going forward. Something positive needs to help break the poor cycles and there is every chance this could be it.

Are the behind-the-scenes movements mostly from NT stakeholders pushing, or is there a lot from the AFL as well?

And any word on how are they are reconciling the costs?