Society/Culture Landlords - What is the point?

[Gralin]

I can change the investments. But I don't think that counts?

Can you opt out of residential property completely?

We don't get a choice about having super and we have limited choices about how our money is invested

It's not exactly the same as buying an investment property directly

 

[ShanDog]

Can you opt out of residential property completely?

We don't get a choice about having super and we have limited choices about how our money is invested

It's not exactly the same as buying an investment property directly

Pretty sure I could with at least one of the funds (not that I would bother TBH). I need to look into super in much more detail - it's probably the one key area of personal finance I'm not savvy on.

 

[Gralin]

Pretty sure I could with at least one of the funds (not that I would bother TBH). I need to look into super in much more detail - it's probably the one key area of personal finance I'm not savvy on.

It's very much arms length by design

 

[DangerousD]

Grouped together like that good luck not creating a slum.

Which part of the country are you in? I was in Carlton today, lots of public housing, doesnt feel very slummy, i work in Richmond, i used to live there too, heaps of public housing, doesnt look very appealing but still doesnt feel like a slum, Fitzroy has heaps too and just like the other areas, they are very expensive, well serviced, popular places to live and socialise.

I’ve read a few more of your posts and I’m in agreeable with a lot of your points, but i think you took the posters original recommendation to an extreme they weren’t suggesting, when they mentioned build a few blocks near train stations and it wouldn’t double taxes.

The poster wasn’t and i dont think anyone is advocating for anything like you posted in the ABC article.

 

[DangerousD]

Politician David Pocock has been raising changes to property taxation laws recently, he’s really pushing hard to remove a lot of concessions, he seems to have a good grasp on things and his changes seem pretty responsible.

 

[DangerousD]

New laws coming in Victoria around minimum rental standards, they will make landlords install roof insulation, Air Con, draft proofing and a few other small changes.

As someone who has rented and as a landlord, the changes are needed, Australia has some of the worst built houses in the devoloped world, they are freezing in winter and hot in summer and this raises the minimum standard.

On the flip side, how do you make this not just drive up rents? A raise in running costs will be passed on in most cases.

 

[yodellinhank]

New laws coming in Victoria around minimum rental standards, they will make landlords install roof insulation, Air Con, draft proofing and a few other small changes.

As someone who has rented and as a landlord, the changes are needed, Australia has some of the worst built houses in the devoloped world, they are freezing in winter and hot in summer and this raises the minimum standard.

On the flip side, how do you make this not just drive up rents? A raise in running costs will be passed on in most cases.

Insulation and draft proofing was free not that long ago via gubmint scheme. Question I'd ask is does these minimum standards get imposed on Air B'n'B type properties also?

 

[Gralin]

New laws coming in Victoria around minimum rental standards, they will make landlords install roof insulation, Air Con, draft proofing and a few other small changes.

As someone who has rented and as a landlord, the changes are needed, Australia has some of the worst built houses in the devoloped world, they are freezing in winter and hot in summer and this raises the minimum standard.

On the flip side, how do you make this not just drive up rents? A raise in running costs will be passed on in most cases.

Rent freezes, rent caps, you know things we should already have

But of course they won't and housing will get even more expensive

 

[DangerousD]

Insulation and draft proofing was free not that long ago via gubmint scheme. Question I'd ask is does these minimum standards get imposed on Air B'n'B type properties also?

The Air con is the big one which can cost a bit, there already is requirements for heating but not AC, installing a AC system from scratch depending on size can be upward of $4000.

No idea about how it would affect Airbnb

 

[DangerousD]

Rent freezes, rent caps, you know things we should already have

But of course they won't and housing will get even more expensive

I dont see rent freezes or rent caps as realistic when costs to provide the rental property keep increasing, if rent caps/freezes meant tightening of existing rules or meaning you could raise rents if your costs hadn’t of increased i could see it being viable.

That being said, the housing market goes up due to lack of supply and high demand, this, along with other measures brought in by the Vic government the last year or so, lowers demand, which imo is a good thing. I sold last year due to rising costs and rising effort required to keep the investment, if i sold due to this, then I’m sure others would have too.,

A lot of the chat in the media is by vested interests in the property game who complain there will be less rentals, but fail to mention that by there being less rentals, means more people have purchased a house.

 

[Gralin]

I dont see rent freezes or rent caps as realistic when costs to provide the rental property keep increasing, if rent caps/freezes meant tightening of existing rules or meaning you could raise rents if your costs hadn’t of increased i could see it being viable.

That being said, the housing market goes up due to lack of supply and high demand, this, along with other measures brought in by the Vic government the last year or so, lowers demand, which imo is a good thing. I sold last year due to rising costs and rising effort required to keep the investment, if i sold due to this, then I’m sure others would have too.,

A lot of the chat in the media is by vested interests in the property game who complain there will be less rentals, but fail to mention that by there being less rentals, means more people have purchased a house.

90% of landlords fudge their returns according to the ATO
Of course they say that's accidental not on purpose.
But you put money into your rental you get tax deductions for it.
Mortgage payments go up, so does the amount you can claim on tax
Rent is going up faster than costs are going up.
It's price gouging encouraged by real estate agents who profit from it.

Tenants can't claim the rental increases on tax, i don't get to claim my mortgage on my place

I really don't give a shit if it's becoming too expensive to have an investment property, maybe they'll sell them then

 

[DangerousD]

Tenants can't claim the rental increases on tax, i don't get to claim my mortgage on my place

Why would a tenant or a home owner get to claim their rent or mortgage on tax?

Landlords get to claim deductions because they are paying tax on the income.

 

[yodellinhank]

90% of landlords fudge their returns according to the ATO
Of course they say that's accidental not on purpose.
But you put money into your rental you get tax deductions for it.
Mortgage payments go up, so does the amount you can claim on tax
Rent is going up faster than costs are going up.
It's price gouging encouraged by real estate agents who profit from it.

Tenants can't claim the rental increases on tax, i don't get to claim my mortgage on my place

Don't think it quite works like that. You can claim capital works off CGT when you sell, but you can't just do up a property and claim it on tax "or I'd buy up every dilapidated property in the town" or so an accountant told me.

I really don't give a shit if it's becoming too expensive to have an investment property, maybe they'll sell them then

A lot of the chat in the media is by vested interests in the property game who complain there will be less rentals, but fail to mention that by there being less rentals, means more people have purchased a house.

This is assuming the properties are bought by home owners and not just a bigger fish investor. Seems to be a lot of unoccupied and short term rentals these days.

 

[Frank Grimes]

Why would a tenant or a home owner get to claim their rent or mortgage on tax?

Landlords get to claim deductions because they are paying tax on the income.

While I agree with this argument/reasoning, I will play devil's advocate here and point out that negative gearing allows you to claim tax deductions beyond the income generated from the investment property (i.e you can claim tax deductions to your job income from expenses related to the property).

 

[Gralin]

Why would a tenant or a home owner get to claim their rent or mortgage on tax?

Landlords get to claim deductions because they are paying tax on the income.

None of the conversation about rising costs for landlords mentions the tax ramifications
The argument is it costs more so has to be passed on to the tenant
When rent is going up by more than rates that argument doesn't fly especially when the tax implications are added in.

Also apparently the cost of an investment is more important than the cost of housing in the media

Don't think it quite works like that. You can claim capital works off CGT when you sell, but you can't just do up a property and claim it on tax "or I'd buy up every dilapidated property in the town" or so an accountant told me.

You can also depreciate each year and get a portion back on tax.
So you get to up the rent for spending money and then claim depreciation on what you spent to pay less tax on that increased rent

This is assuming the properties are bought by home owners and not just a bigger fish investor. Seems to be a lot of unoccupied and short term rentals these days.

Both is happening and this goes for owner occupiers selling as well

As long as we have no regulations to stop this it will continue to consolidate into the big investors

 

[DangerousD]

Don't think it quite works like that. You can claim capital works off CGT when you sell, but you can't just do up a property and claim it on tax "or I'd buy up every dilapidated property in the town" or so an accountant told me.


This is assuming the properties are bought by home owners and not just a bigger fish investor. Seems to be a lot of unoccupied and short term rentals these days.

It’s crazy and should be relatively easy to fix, it staggers me the price of short term accommodation in rural areas. Making changes to tax law is dangerous for any political party, as you can run a scare campaign, changing short term stay laws or increasing taxation on them, i dont see it as dangerous.

 

[DangerousD]

While I agree with this argument/reasoning, I will play devil's advocate here and point out that negative gearing allows you to claim tax deductions beyond the income generated from the investment property (i.e you can claim tax deductions to your job income from expenses related to the property).

That’s cool, I’m well in support of changing the law around property investing and taxation, there’s plenty that can be done to make buying property less appealing.

 

[DangerousD]

None of the conversation about rising costs for landlords mentions the tax ramifications
The argument is it costs more so has to be passed on to the tenant
When rent is going up by more than rates that argument doesn't fly especially when the tax implications are added in.

Also apparently the cost of an investment is more important than the cost of housing in the media

So a good starting point in relation to rental caps/freezes would be to have rental increases in line with a rise in costs or something similar, Im not opposed to these types of legislation.

The media is ridiculous, beating the drum in regardless to housing affordability and then stoking fear whenever a change to address affordability is raised.

 

[Gralin]

So a good starting point in relation to rental caps/freezes would be to have rental increases in line with a rise in costs or something similar, Im not opposed to these types of legislation.

The media is ridiculous, beating the drum in regardless to housing affordability and then stoking fear whenever a change to address affordability is raised.

its almost like their primary objective it to maintain the status quo

who would have thought billionaires owning media would lead to this

 

[faible]

Peripherally related to this discussion;

'Stop, please!' The moment a demolition crew ended an Australian's 25-year fight for her home

Louise Goode's fight for the place of "emotional comfort" she called home lasted a quarter of a century, until it was demolished in front of her as she screamed for help.

www.abc.net.au

 

[yodellinhank]

Tenant's vile $6,500 act as Australian landlord dying

An Australian landlord grappling with a harrowing diagnosis was left out-of-pocket after an eight-month battle with a problem tenant.

au.finance.yahoo.com

 

[Gralin]

you can sell a place with a tenant in it, in fact in a lot of countries its illegal to evict to sell

 

[barreness]

Tenant's vile $6,500 act as Australian landlord dying

An Australian landlord grappling with a harrowing diagnosis was left out-of-pocket after an eight-month battle with a problem tenant.

au.finance.yahoo.com

lol, classic property 'manager'

The property was listed for sale but sold with vacant possession, meaning the tenants had to be out prior to settlement.

The tribunal then granted a warrant of possession, which must be executed by police, but when officers showed up the tenants were long gone.

The property settled the next day, but the experience left both Taylor and her client scarred.

“The stress of tribunal not giving us answers and siding with the renter; it all adds to the stress," Taylor said.

"Even as a property manager, taking on that stress for them was massive. I had to take mental health days just to cope with it all because we were not getting the outcome that we needed.”

So initially illegal eviction and they skipped rent for a couple of months at the end, gee my heart grieves for this rent seeker. Seems they don't actually know when the tenants left, vague dates, hence why the landlords insurance didn't pay out I guess

 

[barreness]

you can sell a place with a tenant in it, in fact in a lot of countries its illegal to evict to sell

Yeh best practice is allowing the lease to finish before settlement but signing all the documents up until that point, means you don't have to go through all the tribunals and what not. Or just allowing the tenant to stay if it's an investment property. This was actually a nice story about renters having some rights

 

[Gralin]

Yeh best practice is allowing the lease to finish before settlement but signing all the documents up until that point, means you don't have to go through all the tribunals and what not. Or just allowing the tenant to stay if it's an investment property. This was actually a nice story about renters having some rights

It's an attack piece on renters rights