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2024 Rolling ALL-Australian Team

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Handyandy said:
That’s cause he dropped back into defence to save the game late & had 10 game saving touches just killing time
Bont & Heeney could never quite hit 39%
And if JHF attended more centre bounces he would easily eclipse the 2 for clearance's
Plus he is a 3rd year player still building his tank whilst the others are in their 10th & 11th seasons
Click to expand...

You seem to think I'm saying JHF isn't a great player.
I agree with you that he is and he will probably continue to get better.

Is he better THIS YEAR than Bont, Heeney, Moore and others that will be fighting for Mid/HFF positions in the AA team - Not as things currently stand.
If he continues to perform at a high level in the next two games and the other big names taper off... then we can revisit this discussion.

Will JHF make the AA squad? Yes, I think he will (at least he should anyway)
Will JHF make the AA team? If it was picked now, probably not.

Who are the people that I would personally pick (right now) to fill 8 spots on the AA team that would go to players who would take up similar positions from an AA perspective (Centre, Rover, RR, HFF x2, Bench x3):
Bont, Heeney, Cripps, N.Daicos, Moore, Serong, Neale, Gulden.

Who else would I pick before JHF:
Sheezel, Warner, Young, Butters, McCluggage, Rankine, Treloar, Merrett.

Then there are other players around the same bracket as JHF (a couple of great games in R23 and R24 could get them in the discussion):
LDU, Brayshaw, Newcombe, Day, Greene, Rowell, Anderson, Yeo.
 
Trav 20 said:
At least he's finally past Big O in the coaches votes.

Still plenty behind Gawn, who got another 6 on one leg - and Gawn's played 3 less games (actually 2 but subbed off with injury at halftime in a third, so not getting votes).
Click to expand...
Using coaches votes to compare players from teams at completely different ladder positions is genuinely stupid and i struggle to believe anyone debating in good faith could think it is relevant.
 
Sirlemsip said:
You seem to think I'm saying JHF isn't a great player.
I agree with you that he is and he will probably continue to get better.

Is he better THIS YEAR than Bont, Heeney, Moore and others that will be fighting for Mid/HFF positions in the AA team - Not as things currently stand.
If he continues to perform at a high level in the next two games and the other big names taper off... then we can revisit this discussion.

Will JHF make the AA squad? Yes, I think he will (at least he should anyway)
Will JHF make the AA team? If it was picked now, probably not.

Who are the people that I would personally pick (right now) to fill 8 spots on the AA team that would go to players who would take up similar positions from an AA perspective (Centre, Rover, RR, HFF x2, Bench x3):
Bont, Heeney, Cripps, N.Daicos, Moore, Serong, Neale, Gulden.

Who else would I pick before JHF:
Sheezel, Warner, Young, Butters, McCluggage, Rankine, Treloar, Merrett.

Then there are other players around the same bracket as JHF (a couple of great games in R23 and R24 could get them in the discussion):
LDU, Brayshaw, Newcombe, Day, Greene, Rowell, Anderson, Yeo.
Click to expand...

If JHF is fighting Moore for HF spot then I expect him to overtake Moore for total goals, goal assists and score involvements (has played 2 less games) by end of 2024 which will probably give JHF the stats nod over Moore.

Hawthorn are actually top 6 in total possessions while Port are 12th (also why Butters and Houston do not get as many possessions as their counterparts but grade nicely in the AFLCA), so JHF would have to be ahead by an efficiency POV
 

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Starting 18 from 18 for 2024:

FB - Luke Ryan (FRE) Sam Collins (GCS) Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera (STK)

HB - Dayne Zorko (BRI) Jeremy McGovern (WCE) Max Holmes (GEE)

C - Errol Gulden (SYD) Zach Merrett (ESS) Jason Horne-Francis (POR)

HF - Shai Bolton (RIC) Charlie Curnow (CAR) Marcus Bontempelli (WBD)

FF - Izak Rankine (ADE) Jesse Hogan (GWS) Dylan Moore (HAW)

FOLL - Max Gawn (MEL) Harry Sheezel (NOR) Nick Daicos (COL)
 
Shaucob_Burjan said:
If JHF is fighting Moore for HF spot then I expect him to overtake Moore for total goals, goal assists and score involvements (has played 2 less games) by end of 2024 which will probably give JHF the stats nod over Moore.

Hawthorn are actually top 6 in total possessions while Port are 12th (also why Butters and Houston do not get as many possessions as their counterparts but grade nicely in the AFLCA), so JHF would have to be ahead by an efficiency POV
Click to expand...
JHF has kicked 8 goals less and has 8 goal assists less than Moore. If he overtakes Moore on both of those, he has probably played the 2 greatest games of all time
 
Ben King to kick 12 against us in the final round to steal the Coleman. Lock him in.
 
Shaucob_Burjan said:
If JHF is fighting Moore for HF spot then I expect him to overtake Moore for total goals, goal assists and score involvements (has played 2 less games) by end of 2024 which will probably give JHF the stats nod over Moore.

Hawthorn are actually top 6 in total possessions while Port are 12th (also why Butters and Houston do not get as many possessions as their counterparts but grade nicely in the AFLCA), so JHF would have to be ahead by an efficiency POV
Click to expand...
Hawthorn are 11th for average possessions not 6th, only 3.9 possessions more than Port. It's why Newcombe is our highest average disposal winner with only 23 which is the lowest club leader in the league. Port have 4 players that average more.

Moore averages .3 more goals and .3 more goal assists than JHF, he would need to kick 9 goals and 9 goal assist in the next 2 games just to equal Moore's current total.

SWING AND A MISS.
 

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theiaofseed said:
Hawthorn are 11th for average possessions not 6th, only 3.9 possessions more than Port. It's why Newcombe is our highest average disposal winner with only 23 which is the lowest club leader in the league. Port have 4 players that average more.

Moore averages .3 more goals and .3 more goal assists than JHF, he would need to kick 9 goals and 9 goal assist in the next 2 games just to equal Moore's current total.

SWING AND A MISS.
Click to expand...
if JHF is competing for a spot in the AA team with Moore then Moore has zero chance.
Selectors always favour mid/ fwd hybrids over pure fwds
And there are half a dozen pure fwds you would pick ahead of Moore

I know it hurts you vics insular little brains, but JHF is way way better

Reality is only 3 players in the afl currently avg more than 20 possies, 5 clearances & a goal a game

PlayerGamesDisposalsClearnacesGoals
Marcus Bontempelli2126.146.191.43
Isaac Heeney2025.661.25
Jason Horne-Francis1922.055.631.1

On top of this JHF is far more dominant when he attends centre ball ups
Centre clearances per CBA %
JHF: 16.9
Bont: 12.6
Heeney: 9.8

On top of this is the 39% score stat, highest recorded in ten years, showing he is more damaging when he does get it

And if he spent the whole game fwd he would kill Moore in every fwd stat
 
Regarding half a dozen forwards being better this year.

Moore is leading Med Fwds for player rankings and coaches votes. Pretty much the best at what he does in the comp, outside of Rankine who has only played 14 game this year.
 
HeHateMe said:
Regarding half a dozen forwards being better this year.

Moore is leading Med Fwds for player rankings and coaches votes. Pretty much the best at what he does in the comp, outside of Rankine who has only played 14 game this year.
Click to expand...
Fair call
JHF makes the squad now but would be 50/50 for the team. He’s had 5 or 6 freak games & 5 or 6 quieter games which may cost him. Probably needs 2 big ones to secure a spot
Just saying he is very close and a lot of people underrating him here. Huge impact for a 3rd year player
Ports have Houston & Butters in contention but both a bit down from last season
Point taken re Rankine, haven’t seen enough of the hawks this season to comment but good luck to Moore & hawks
You were my riser team for this season
 
Handyandy said:
Fair call
JHF makes the squad now but would be 50/50 for the team. He’s had 5 or 6 freak games & 5 or 6 quieter games which may cost him. Probably needs 2 big ones to secure a spot
Just saying he is very close and a lot of people underrating him here. Huge impact for a 3rd year player
Ports have Houston & Butters in contention but both a bit down from last season
Point taken re Rankine, haven’t seen enough of the hawks this season to comment but good luck to Moore & hawks
You were my riser team for this season
Click to expand...
They are different players, JHF is a gun but AA is a positional award so comparing different types doesn't always make sense.

On Moore, the type of player he is he should be much loved by everyone. He is as good as he is based on effort and determination. Growing up he ran the Stawell Gift, gut running is just built into him.

JHF isnt getting the credits someone like Daicos just yet, but Petracca wasn't AA either from the get go. As you said he is a third year player and he is only getting better.
 

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Boomer93 said:
Its Ryan's actual defending that makes him elite, not what he does with the ball.

Anyway it would probably be Clark who deserves it from Fremantle this season.
Click to expand...
Most rebound 50's in the league and a disposal efficiency of 88.4 isn't bad.
What does go against him though is his contested work, intercepts and spoils.
Has the most marks in the comp but only 8 are contested. 8 out of 186. For a defender that ain't great.

He definitely doesn't waste it though when he get's it.
 
flyinghi64 said:
Most rebound 50's in the league and a disposal efficiency of 88.4 isn't bad.
What does go against him though is his contested work, intercepts and spoils.
Has the most marks in the comp but only 8 are contested. 8 out of 186. For a defender that ain't great.

He definitely doesn't waste it though when he get's it.
Click to expand...

Pure numbers don't really work for defenders to well, way too many variables. Uncontested football around the back half hardly matter, it's what a player does with it in an attacking sense which is important. Ryan doesn't do a lot with the ball.

Even defensive numbers don't work well. Intercepts largely depends on the role a player is playing in the backline. Even contests won % depends on the type of player a defender is tasked with manning up every week.

Ryan is an exceptional 1 on 1 defender. That's the great part of his game. How many kick outs and cheap kicks he gets bombing it long outside 50 to a contest is hardly what makes him good, even if that's what the stats say.
 
Boomer93 said:
Pure numbers don't really work for defenders to well, way too many variables. Uncontested football around the back half hardly matter, it's what a player does with it in an attacking sense which is important. Ryan doesn't do a lot with the ball.

Even defensive numbers don't work well. Intercepts largely depends on the role a player is playing in the backline. Even contests won % depends on the type of player a defender is tasked with manning up every week.

Ryan is an exceptional 1 on 1 defender. That's the great part of his game. How many kick outs and cheap kicks he gets bombing it long outside 50 to a contest is hardly what makes him good, even if that's what the stats say.
Click to expand...
Not having a go or anything, but I've watched a fair bit of Freo over the past few years and Ryan's defending isn't what stands out to me.

He does stat pad but he also is just very good at reading the play and intercepting/rebounding from 50 with a good efficiency. His hurt factor with ball in hand might not always be great but I think people overdo it with how much they imply he is a "pointless" sort of player.

If you did want to criticise his impact on games I would say he doesn't really defend 1v1 that often or that well.
 
Mr Meow said:
Not having a go or anything, but I've watched a fair bit of Freo over the past few years and Ryan's defending isn't what stands out to me.

He does stat pad but he also is just very good at reading the play and intercepting/rebounding from 50 with a good efficiency. His hurt factor with ball in hand might not always be great but I think people overdo it with how much they imply he is a "pointless" sort of player.

If you did want to criticise his impact on games I would say he doesn't really defend 1v1 that often or that well.
Click to expand...

I highly disagree and iv watched just about every game Ryan has played in his career. He almost never gets beaten. Even when he's having to play as an undersized KPD (which he earned AA playing) or gets caught in a situation against one of the faster small types, he almost always gets the job done. Quite often running away with the ball himself. There is no one in the dockers side that I feel more confident in a one on one, bar maybe Pearce.
 
Boomer93 said:
I highly disagree and iv watched just about every game Ryan has played in his career. He almost never gets beaten. Even when he's having to play as an undersized KPD (which he earned AA playing) or gets caught in a situation against one of the faster small types, he almost always gets the job done. Quite often running away with the ball himself. There is no one in the dockers side that I feel more confident in a one on one, bar maybe Pearce.
Click to expand...
I don't doubt you know more about Ryan than I do, I am heavily focussing on the past 2 years. I'd be interested in other Freo and non Freo supporters thoughts on this one. I see him as much more of an elite "peel off and intercept or cover for other defenders" player than I do "1v1 lockdown to neutralise contests".
 
Mr Meow said:
I don't doubt you know more about Ryan than I do, I am heavily focussing on the past 2 years. I'd be interested in other Freo and non Freo supporters thoughts on this one. I see him as much more of an elite "peel off and intercept or cover for other defenders" player than I do "1v1 lockdown to neutralise contests".
Click to expand...

Hes very much a mix of the two, and that's why his stats won't be top tier at either.
 

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2024 Rolling ALL-Australian Team

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