Autopsy Got there in the end - Swans def Blues

[SwansProudly]

 

[caesar88]

While I agree he might believe they're not going well, that is the exact reason he may just be out of a job in the next month.
Everyone in the footy industry agrees they have some great pieces. Not many teams, if any at all, have AA player(s) in each 3rd of the ground. Yet this guy keeps being given a pass for some reason. I am a Voss fan overall, but in a world where people here are giving Cox grief a handful of games into this type of season, surely Voss is on the hot seat for not doing SFA with a HUGE amount of talent.

It might just be me but I actually reckon Carlton's so-called AA players are part of their problem. Cripps has always been overrated to me, Walsh butchers it a lot, and McKay is as much meme fodder as he is monster forward. They want the ball in these players' hands and so often I find myself thinking... why?

 

[rustycrate]

I think Hamling is going to have to stay forward which I'm not a fan of. Melbourne don't have many good tall forwards.

I agree with Punts give Mills another week in the twos, why rush after being so careful.

I think we go shorter up front , but Hamling and Ladhams hmm. Will be hayward to play well, Adams in means Heeney and Warner can push forward though, Florent plays a full game. i don't think Mclean should be back from one shit game, not sold on Buller.


Florent comes back in, we looked better and at least Ladhams competes.


Out Francis, Jmac, Amartey

In Adams, Hanily , and heck maybe Paton and he can be sub

Hanily forward , Ladhams and Sheldrick to relieve Heeney and warner

Paton makes our side worse.
Feel like we are scraping the bottom of the barrel when we pick him. We have better alternatives.

 

[rustycrate]

I didn’t say he was a good kick though, I just like one piece of play, He is an average kick, though he makes less mistakes than some. Maybe it was too wet his entire career

You too are a lovely couple.

 

[SwansLifer]

It might just be me but I actually reckon Carlton's so-called AA players are part of their problem. Cripps has always been overrated to me, Walsh butchers it a lot, and McKay is as much meme fodder as he is monster forward. They want the ball in these players' hands and so often I find myself thinking... why?

I absolutely hear that and can kind of get behind it, but the stats don't bear out. I just know the footy industry doesn't see it like that as well. Unless of course unless you're an iconic figure like Michael Voss.
Weitering - Top 3-4 defenders in comp MINIMUM
Haynes - #1 marks in comp. Great player TBH.
Cripps - Brownlow Medallist ie Top 2-3 min in the comp
#4 & # 7 top goal kickers in the AFL last year

Yet they can't seem to form a system that gets them into the top 6. They have excellent support players and that's where it all lies too. Check them out. They have a much better overall list than Sydney and the Swans, with all they've been through this season, will finish higher on the ladder. Why is that?

I guess the main reason for me is just that, you CAN'T not be successful, ie top 2-4, while having players like Curnow, Cripps and Weitering. It bookends your entire team and SYSTEM. He just left Weitering in the goal square on Joel F$##$% Hamling. That is the #worst move a coach has made this season.

I mean Curnow hasn't grown to anything he "could" have been with Voss. Is that on him instead of Voss? Probably, but the senior coach needs to at least see you have a generational player at your disposal.

He's done a horrible job and anyone else would have been sacked quite comfortably by now. And to be honest I'm expecting it before the end of the year unless they make it top 4.

 

[caesar88]

I absolutely hear that and can kind of get behind it, but the stats don't bear out. I just know the footy industry doesn't see it like that as well. Unless of course unless you're an iconic figure like Michael Voss.
Weitering - Top 3-4 defenders in comp MINIMUM
Haynes - #1 marks in comp. Great player TBH.
Cripps - Brownlow Medallist ie Top 2-3 min in the comp
#4 & # 7 top goal kickers in the AFL last year

Yet they can't seem to form a system that gets them into the top 6. They have excellent support players and that's where it all lies too. Check them out. They have a much better overall list than Sydney and the Swans, with all they've been through this season, will finish higher on the ladder. Why is that?

I guess the main reason for me is just that, you CAN'T not be successful, ie top 2-4, while having players like Curnow, Cripps and Weitering. It bookends your entire team and SYSTEM. He just left Weitering in the goal square on Joel F$##$% Hamling. That is the #worst move a coach has made this season.

I mean Curnow hasn't grown to anything he "could" have been with Voss. Is that on him instead of Voss? Probably, but the senior coach needs to at least see you have a generational player at your disposal.

He's done a horrible job and anyone else would have been sacked quite comfortably by now. And to be honest I'm expecting it before the end of the year unless they make it top 4.

To each their own I guess. I think they have an average list and there's only about five players on it who I'd want in my team - Weitering, Haynes, Hewett, De Koning & Curnow. So I don't think he has that much to work with, though I can't say I've ever seen him pull off any major coaching masterstrokes, either.

 

[The King!]

To each their own I guess. I think they have an average list and there's only about five players on it who I'd want in my team - Weitering, Haynes, Hewett, De Koning & Curnow. So I don't think he has that much to work with, though I can't say I've ever seen him pull off any major coaching masterstrokes, either.

He gets a fair pump up , but you seriously suggesting you wouldn't take Cripps?

 

[caesar88]

He gets a fair pump up , but you seriously suggesting you wouldn't take Cripps?

Yeah, I don't get the hype at all.

 

[The King!]

Yeah, I don't get the hype at all.

He is over hyped for sure but he is pretty bloody good, wasted with that team .

I like Walsh, Silvangi is handy , and the campo twins and the new kid handy prospect.

They do have some ordinary depth in parts though to your original point.

 

[Kiama Chris]

When you look at the long range forecast it looks like a decent chance its going to be wet.
Maybe that gives someone like Corey more of an opportunity to stay in.
Florent probably comes into the starting 22.
Adams is almost surely being picked.
If it actually is wet I wouldn't be risking Mills at all. Now I'm not saying they shouldn't pick him, but if there is any doubt that he can't play a game of AFL then you don't play him. At this point in time, without knowing how he pulled up and what his program is, I say not to play him.
I bring back Hanily for groundball pressure and then the last spot goes to Paton (I know, I know).

Out: Francis, Amartey, JMac
In: Adams, Hanily, Paton

Rely on Ladhams forward for small parts like Friday night, with Hamling playing his usual defensive forward role, this time on May.
Heeney and Hayward are the guys that have to play taller. If the Dee's try and go bigger in their forward line, Hamling can always go back.
Oh, and watch out for one of the best match ups for the round. Wicks on Pickett.

Thoughtful post and it might play out that way. Dees tonight got a fair bit of value out of Johnson (Gawn lookalike) alongside Petty so I'm not sure one KPD will get it done.
If it was up to me (lucky it isn't I hear you say) I'd move Hamling back to replace Francis, bring Florent into the 22 to replace McInerney and McLean to replace Hamling up front. Don't throw Buller to the wolves (ie May). That means just McLean and Ladhams as KPFs which allows us to bring in the third replacement as a speedy forward ie Hanily. Play smart and play away from May. Heeney more time forward. Adams as sub. No Mills, give him another run in VFL.

 

[caesar88]

He is over hyped for sure but he is pretty bloody good, wasted with that team .

I like Walsh, Silvangi is handy , and the campo twins and the new kid handy prospect.

They do have some ordinary depth in parts though to your original point.

The question was not is he good, it was would I want him in my team. I'm not taking him over any of our mids, except Sheldrick but I don't think he's quite best 22 yet anyway. So no he wouldn't be in my team.

To my eye I think Carlton look best when guys like Hewett & Cerra are linking up, they bring the outside players into the game more. Once Cripps & Walsh are more involved I feel their midfield becomes about accumulating, a lot of possessions going nowhere & doing nothing. But then Fox Footy flash some graphic about how many clearances Cripps has had in the quarter and the hype train takes off.

 

[Kiama Chris]

I assume he was talking about it purely from a scoreboard perspective. If you lead for nearly the entire game then you generally shouldn't be losing. But yeah if he was talking about it from a tactical game ascendancy sense then it's confusing.

He was making excuses.

 

[SwansLifer]

Thoughtful post and it might play out that way. Dees tonight got a fair bit of value out of Johnson (Gawn lookalike) alongside Petty so I'm not sure one KPD will get it done.
If it was up to me (lucky it isn't I hear you say) I'd move Hamling back to replace Francis, bring Florent into the 22 to replace McInerney and McLean to replace Hamling up front. Don't throw Buller to the wolves (ie May). That means just McLean and Ladhams as KPFs which allows us to bring in the third replacement as a speedy forward ie Hanily. Play smart and play away from May. Heeney more time forward. Adams as sub. No Mills, give him another run in VFL.

I actually think the way you put this is the way the Swans will go. I wouldn't complain either TBH. Only thing I don't agree with is play away from May. I actually don't like tactics like that. Hopefully Goodwin has a stroke and does the braindead Carlton plan of we will break even with your non forward or at best AFL average player against our elite AA defender by standing on the goal line with him the whole game, but no one realistically does that do they?

 

[Kiama Chris]

Paton makes our side worse.
Feel like we are scraping the bottom of the barrel when we pick him. We have better alternatives.

He goes well in the VFL but not so much in seniors. His last game where he spent time in the middle was awful. Sad.

 

[The King!]

The question was not is he good, it was would I want him in my team. I'm not taking him over any of our mids, except Sheldrick but I don't think he's quite best 22 yet anyway. So no he wouldn't be in my team.

To my eye I think Carlton look best when guys like Hewett & Cerra are linking up, they bring the outside players into the game more. Once Cripps & Walsh are more involved I feel their midfield becomes about accumulating, a lot of possessions going nowhere & doing nothing. But then Fox Footy flash some graphic about how many clearances Cripps has had in the quarter and the hype train takes off.

Each to their own, I think Cripps would be one of the first three picked out of the midfields from the combined side on the weekend.

 

[SwansLifer]

He goes well in the VFL but not so much in seniors. His last game where he spent time in the middle was awful. Sad.

He shouldn't be playing in the middle though. That's not on him. That's on the coaching staff. The midfield crew is big enough now that hopefully Coxy has put the PS controller down.

 

[The King!]

We made the 9 things we learned AFL report but only to say we are too reliant on our 2 best players, fair unfortunately but maybe for a rare win there was something else

 

[Kiama Chris]

I absolutely hear that and can kind of get behind it, but the stats don't bear out. I just know the footy industry doesn't see it like that as well. Unless of course unless you're an iconic figure like Michael Voss.
Weitering - Top 3-4 defenders in comp MINIMUM
Haynes - #1 marks in comp. Great player TBH.
Cripps - Brownlow Medallist ie Top 2-3 min in the comp
#4 & # 7 top goal kickers in the AFL last year

Yet they can't seem to form a system that gets them into the top 6. They have excellent support players and that's where it all lies too. Check them out. They have a much better overall list than Sydney and the Swans, with all they've been through this season, will finish higher on the ladder. Why is that?

I guess the main reason for me is just that, you CAN'T not be successful, ie top 2-4, while having players like Curnow, Cripps and Weitering. It bookends your entire team and SYSTEM. He just left Weitering in the goal square on Joel F$##$% Hamling. That is the #worst move a coach has made this season.

I mean Curnow hasn't grown to anything he "could" have been with Voss. Is that on him instead of Voss? Probably, but the senior coach needs to at least see you have a generational player at your disposal.

He's done a horrible job and anyone else would have been sacked quite comfortably by now. And to be honest I'm expecting it before the end of the year unless they make it top 4.

Also running the list with no proper small/ medium forwards, butchering the talent of Walsh and Cerra, leaving his best tagger in the VFL, awful game plan. Terrible coach and list management.

 

[SwansLifer]

To each their own I guess. I think they have an average list and there's only about five players on it who I'd want in my team - Weitering, Haynes, Hewett, De Koning & Curnow. So I don't think he has that much to work with, though I can't say I've ever seen him pull off any major coaching masterstrokes, either.

That is fair. But even after putting out all their AA players, you even list De King Kong and Hewett. Add in Cerra, Walsh, Saad and even McGovern, they have a more potent list that a coach can work with. I know you don't like Walsh, but he is a jet in any other team. I don't think Carlton does him any favours (maybe also his injuries aren't great at all). I mean when you put their list overall up against ours, it's clear overall who has the best TALENT on the list. I don't think it's even close. And I LOVE our list (generally).

 

[caesar88]

That is fair. But even after putting out all their AA players, you even list De King Kong and Hewett. Add in Cerra, Walsh, Saad and even McGovern, they have a more potent list that a coach can work with. I know you don't like Walsh, but he is a jet in any other team. I don't think Carlton does him any favours (maybe also his injuries aren't great at all). I mean when you put their list overall up against ours, it's clear overall who has the best TALENT on the list. I don't think it's even close. And I LOVE our list (generally).

I would take our list over theirs 100 times out of 100.

I keep hearing how talented but wasted Carlton's players are. Cripps has won two Brownlows, Walsh has averaged 28+ disposals the last four straight years. Clearly these guys are not being starved of opportunity or supply. They just don't do anything with it.

By the same token a number of our players could be better than they are if not for the fact they're playing specific roles to make the team better.

It's why we have made two grand finals in three years where Carlton have been largely mediocre.

 

[The King!]

I would take our list over theirs 100 times out of 100.

I keep hearing how talented but wasted Carlton's players are. Cripps has won two Brownlows, Walsh has averaged 28+ disposals the last four straight years. Clearly these guys are not being starved of opportunity or supply. They just don't do anything with it.

By the same token a number of our players could be better than they are if not for the fact they're playing specific roles to make the team better.

It's why we have made two grand finals in three years where Carlton have been largely mediocre.

We won 9 more games than them in the last 3 and a bit years, not remarkably different.

 

[caesar88]

We won 9 more games than them in the last 3 and a bit years, not remarkably different.

Except the part where we made two grand finals and they made zero? That's pretty different IMO.

 

[Heeney2Franklin]

I would take our list over theirs 100 times out of 100.

I keep hearing how talented but wasted Carlton's players are. Cripps has won two Brownlows, Walsh has averaged 28+ disposals the last four straight years. Clearly these guys are not being starved of opportunity or supply. They just don't do anything with it.

By the same token a number of our players could be better than they are if not for the fact they're playing specific roles to make the team better.

It's why we have made two grand finals in three years where Carlton have been largely mediocre.

Its okay to say you prefer our list but a lot of Carlton players would walk into our best 22 every week (Walsh, Cripps,TDK,Weiter,McKay,Curnow,Williams,Jsos)

Lets not be ridiculous lol

 

[The King!]

Except the part where we made two grand finals and they made zero? That's pretty different IMO.

Yeah and shat the bed , also lost to them in a final .

Anyway I like our list better but the gap isn't as big as you suggest imo.

Right now both sides are average

 

[Heeney2Franklin]

Yeah and shat the bed , also lost to them in a final .

Anyway I like our list better but the gap isn't as big as you suggest imo.

Right now both sides are average

I mean just having Curnow/Mckay would ensure at least 3 more wins

 

[caesar88]

Its okay to say you prefer our list but a lot of Carlton players would walk into our best 22 every week (Walsh, Cripps,TDK,Weiter,McKay,Curnow,Williams,Jsos)

Lets not be ridiculous lol

Thank god they won't get to then, otherwise we would end up like... (checks notes)... Carlton.