Rumour Bluemour Discussion XXXVII

[AT97]

Coooool... Walsh being chased by Cats, Saints and Hawks as per Twomey on Gettable today.

Big big big 6 months for the club and our best players.

You can always count on st blunder to be one of the teams interested in a Carlton player.

 

[The Bighouse]

Perhaps we’re tired of the sacking of coaches, and will see out a contract with support to the coach & the football department.

The reputation needs changing.

Also, maybe the club is doing ok but for the wins, giving further support to the football dept to further evolve.

Is there any further advice re: Brad Lloyd giving notice for his last year?
That’s too many at the top exiting (Pres, CEO, Footy GM) that creates problematic attitudes.

 

[Coops93]

You can always count on st blunder to be one of the teams interested in a Carlton player.

Sos doing with them what he did with us. Gws raiding all over again.

 

[Jatz]

Perhaps we’re tired of the sacking of coaches, and will see out a contract with support to the coach & the football department.

The reputation needs changing.

Also, maybe the club is doing ok but for the wins, giving further support to the football dept to further evolve.

Is there any further advice re: Brad Lloyd giving notice for his last year?
That’s too many at the top exiting (Pres, CEO, Footy GM) that creates problematic attitudes.

But for the wins? If the wins aren’t there, the club isn’t doing well, regardless of what’s happening elsewhere.

I get that it’s all a business now but we are still a football club.

 

[The Bighouse]

Saints complaining that they will be pushed back to pick 9, when they are the ones bidding on the academy players is a bit of a laugh, i get their point, the best kids in the draft are meant for the crap teams in a year, but we will see this year clubs actually need to trade to be able to take multiple kids.

Brisbane will need to work hard to get pick 3, Sydney will probably need to trade their 1st in this instance otherwise it will get eaten up. Lots of clubs have done well out of trading with others to secure points, we aren’t one of them.

Saints complain about everything.
Always thought you don’t include those that aren’t available for drafting due to F/S / academy access (bid by all means but the eligible draftees are those you should be concentrating on)

 

[Coops93]

We kick it on Charlie’s head all the time because he’s candidate number 1 for lazy arse habits

I've said in the past I don't think Charlie is actually a high IQ player and doesn't really play with natural forward nous or IQ, but rather has depended on freakish ability.

I'm not sure he's lazy I just think he actually doesn't have the forward craft to know what to do.

How often does Charlie take a mark uncontested on a lead? How often is he the one that's drifted out the back uncontested? How often does he use crafty body work to win a marking contest, ala Gunston?

Everything he does inside 50 looks like hard work, and he often wins because not many can match his burst and leap, so they give away frees or he takes a contested mark. That's about all he's got and is what he's always depended on. It's why he often has electric 15 mins where he kicks 3 goals then disappears for the rest of the game.

 

[swuzzlebubble]

How often is he the one that's drifted out the back uncontested?

Quite often but usually when the ball's going back the other way

 

[DamoESP]

Someone please convince me that if we sacked Voss for Horse, it won't end up the same as when we sacked Ratten for Malthouse.

Please, I'm scared

 

[Beyond Blue]

Saints complain about everything.
Always thought you don’t include those that aren’t available for drafting due to F/S / academy access (bid by all means but the eligible draftees are those you should be concentrating on)

Diversionary tactic by an underperforming coach and president who appointed him.

 

[Jatz]

Someone please convince me that if we sacked Voss for Horse, it won't end up the same as when we sacked Ratten for Malthouse.

Please, I'm scared

Well Horse isn’t trying to continue coaching for a record so I think that probably helps. Nor is he coaching to try and stick it up his former employer.

 

[Blue Pulse]

Perhaps we’re tired of the sacking of coaches, and will see out a contract with support to the coach & the football department.

The reputation needs changing.

Also, maybe the club is doing ok but for the wins, giving further support to the football dept to further evolve.

Is there any further advice re: Brad Lloyd giving notice for his last year?
That’s too many at the top exiting (Pres, CEO, Footy GM) that creates problematic attitudes.

Unfortunately watching the players running around at the moment, they remind me of our teams under Malthouse, just going through the motions. They have no self belief, no confidence in each other or what they are trying to do.

That's just my opinion, but that is what I am seeing at the moment.

 

[Bluebag13]

Unfortunately watching the players running around at the moment, they remind me of our teams under Malthouse, just going through the motions. They have no self belief, no confidence in each other or what they are trying to do.

That's just my opinion, but that is what I am seeing at the moment.

Maybe one in the same, but I actually see it that we are trying too hard, the effort and running is there.

Often we are great at winning the ball but not using it effectively either because we are forcing it or just poor execution (i think forcing it has a bit to do with it), or we are getting sucked into a lot of the contest and not being effective in getting it to the outside or setting yourselves up on the outside to receive and be in a good position to deliver effectively.

Far from the emotionless, jaded viewing, of the malthouse era

 

[Garters]

I get your take, but I have pretty much taken off my supporter hat these days esp given the last season and a half and just look at it through a work lense of a non performing enterprise.

This club has for too long pandered to cashed up board influence, pandered to untouchable player cohorts, pandered to the masses of a fickle supporter base. The only pandering from here on should be solely reserved for Bamboo forests in the foothills of Shaanxi Province.

You get rid of / trade / bring in whoever we need to make lasting change. That includes anyone from exec through to playing group.

No one, club included, should be concerned of any short term impacts on disgruntled members or upset kids. That there is entitlement 101 which seems to be across most lines of the club.

You do what is needed to get the organisation winning games of football. You watch supporters and members flock back once we are winning consistently playing good footy. All of a sudden same supporters would be hailing the move of trading out a star as a master stroke. Sports fans are a fickle mistress with gold fish memories.

We all just want a normal club that wins games of footy on a consistent basis so the fam can enjoy those experiences I know I had as a kid.

Being scared to change the status quo, which has failed, because of fear of external noise will not get us off this treadmill of mediocrity.

Time will tell but I think Wright clearly understands what is in front of him.

Edit, the message I was replying to didn't copy above so bit out of context on a stand alone basis but was in response to a message of you can't trade away Curnow we would loose members, too important etc.

 

[JimmyRabbit49]

Unfortunately watching the players running around at the moment, they remind me of our teams under Malthouse, just going through the motions. They have no self belief, no confidence in each other or what they are trying to do.

That's just my opinion, but that is what I am seeing at the moment.

You might want to go back and re-watch some of those 2015 games - our best loss was 21 points

 

[RPCB]

Better off just keeping Williams now. Easily our best small forward. Will be on low pay after next year and hopefully feel like he owes us given how little he's delivered so far.

And that is saying nothing about Zac Williams ability. His career best year is 15 goals, this year he’s kicked 8 goals in 7 games. He’s an average player.

 

[katmanblue]

So Cook/Wright the messiah is or isnt an expert?

Or is he only good IF he sacks Voss?

Prime Cook or Cooked Cook?

 

[RPCB]

Someone please convince me that if we sacked Voss for Horse, it won't end up the same as when we sacked Ratten for Malthouse.

Please, I'm scared

Unless Horse would only be coming to Carlton so he can get his games wins record milestone, it would be a lot different.

 

[katmanblue]

What are the missing pieces to making Voss's football philosophy translate into more wins than losses?

The major criticisms seem to be that the observed playing style of the team lacks legs speed, decision making, and co-ordinated execution especially in two areas transitioning from defensive fifty to forward fifty and kicking to advantage into the forward fifty.

Can Voss ( or any coach) improve the leg speed of any player(s) or the team as a whole ?
Can Voss ( or any coach ) improve the kicking ability of the players available at any point in time?
Can Voss ( or any coach) improve the decision making of the collective and if so by how much?

Does a change in coach ( football philosophy/ game plan) given current players/list and the constraints that imposes on the execution of the new game plan philosophy lead to a likely improved W/L ratio? Why?

I see a lot of statistics which point to top4 performance from the team week in week out and we all see and enjoy the frustration of wasted entries into the forward fifty - week in week out.

Is improvement in W/L more easily achieved by fixing that last point and if so - what are the potential fixes and requisite resource implications?

Is it as simple as improving decision making which leads to better execution of team play and (perhaps) finding one or two better decision makers whose skill set better aligns with what to do with the ball in hand when considering best entry into forward fifty?

I think fixing this is likely to be an easier way to achieve significant improvement - than throwing everything out and starting again. I also suspect that people inside the Club are likely sharing similar views.

Maybe Austin and co's job is as 'simple' as finding a player or two that can execute the entry into forward kick better more often than not.

No one has much control over what TDK is going to be paid by St Kilda or wether a particular player has the mental capacity or in the right head space to continue playing AFL.

What can be controlled is knowing what the biggest issues on field are week in week out.

The stats suggest that Carlton is almost there - save that one glaringly obvious and horrible to watch 'how to best control the forward fifty entry' issue.

If Voss is deemed to be unable to recognise this as THE issue - the he needs to go- I doubt that that is the real situation though - I suspect that he is as frustrated with this as everyone else is - and perhaps it is just down to improving the execution ability of the team - in HHF and Wings= - and everything else is just noise.

I think having everyone on the same page would make any team seem much quicker than a team of individuals who have to react to each other. All it takes is for one to be out of position for it all to fall apart. I think this is where coaching needs to come into it.

Seems like each line is doing its own thing and all the forwards are also doing their whatever they want. Our (other) forwards will often lead once then stand around waiting for the kick to go to H or Charlie.

Don't have the multiple leads or leads to create space for someone else to lead into.

We also don't look for the lateral ball often enough.

 

[katmanblue]

Charlie kicks goals. Consistently. Every week. He's only kicked 5 goals once in the last 2 seasons, but he's kicked 3+ in 5 of the last 6 games.

McKay gets more of the footy and works harder, but doesn't kick anywhere near as many goals.

When Charlie was out, H won a Coleman

 

[katmanblue]

The absolute problem with our forward line is they don’t bloody lead to provide an option, to have a functioning forward line every single forward needs to be providing an option.
We kick it on Charlie’s head all the time because he’s candidate number 1 for lazy arse habits

How many time would you lead only to be ignored. At what point do you not really try? Especially when fatigue is kicking in. You'd be rationalising not leading yourself.

This is years and years of the midfield ignoring players in space and good position for the long bomb to a 3 on 1. It's become ingrained.

 

[swuzzlebubble]

How many time would you lead only to be ignored

A good fwd structure would have dummy leads as part of the plan (not what you mean I know)

 

[Garters]

I think Zaccy Williams could be one player Graham Wright ships out with his contract.

Was heavily front loaded from memory. Would be off the books already in terms of chewing up major cap space.

 

[GT619]

When Charlie was out, H won a Coleman

when h was out we won a semi final v dees

 

[Red_man2008]

Sydney chasing McKay NOT Curnow. According to rumour on blue abroad.

 

[Wickzki]

Charlie kicks goals. Consistently. Every week. He's only kicked 5 goals once in the last 2 seasons, but he's kicked 3+ in 5 of the last 6 games.

McKay gets more of the footy and works harder, but doesn't kick anywhere near as many goals.

I can't overstate how much dislike I have for this argument.

Hawthorn supporters could have said the same over a decade ago to discount Roughead in comparison to Buddy.

I love Charlie. I love Big H. If I had to choose between the two I'd most likely choose Harry.

• Greater versatility and willingness to play to that versatility
• Harder worker - more consistent with his second efforts and willingness to run and get to positions
• Reportedly pays greater attention to detail and is better with match preparation than Charlie

I also feel that with the mental health issues that Harry has faced this year that you're likely to find teams who will lowball Carlton at the trade table for him. The club is in a better position to push for the absolute premium currency that Charlie will demand.

The big question that I would have is:

Who's injury history is of greater concern? Charlie's structural capacity or Harry's history with concussion.

Both players could be seen ticking time bombs.