Review Starlight, Star Bright, We Beat The Saints

[go_the_dockers]

What’s going on with Amiss? Like what has changed so much between now and his first year? Even last year he had the most shots on goal for the team. Last year he was missing shots, but now He’s just not getting looks at all. Would’ve thought it’d be easier with Voss and Treacy alongside him.

I’m sure there’s plenty of times he’s been burnt on the lead but that’s no different to previous years. Really need him to get out of this funk

He was out 10m ahead of his opponent, a full clear 10m out, on the lead more than a handful of times and the kick to him effectively went behind him requiring him to slow to intercept the ball and his opposition caught up to spoil it.

It's really frustrating to see at the ground. Kick it flatter or in front of him and he would have taken four or five more marks.

He is a bit limited as a forward, and requires good to elite kicking to him on the lead.


We just don't have enough of this in our team, to make him look good.

There was one on the wing, where he was at least 5 m clear and they sat it on his head. So frustrating to watch.

 

[malpaso]

I love the good Lyon years he gave us but he's now a bit bitter and twisted. He thought he had us in the bag again yesterday and it was great seeing his lose his shit in the box in the 4th.

Later RTB..

 

[Docker82]

Don't care what we paid for Jackson Clark and Bolton. Worth every ****ing penny!

Got to love people that on the D + T thread saying we don't trade well so don't trade. I said we need to trade better.

These three are in the top 5-7 players on our list on form. Brayshaw, Serong, Treacy, Pearce, Clark, Jackson and Bolton. They're our genuine A Graders. Get Young fit and Chapman more confident and they'll join that list. Not to mention more games into Reid. We'll be a bloody good team if that happens.

 

[malpaso]

He is a bit limited as a forward, and requires good to elite kicking to him on the lead.


We just don't have enough of this in our team, to make him look good.

There was one on the wing, where he was at least 5 m clear and they sat it on his head. So frustrating to watch.

Yeah delivery to Amiss for some reason is very bad, he's either ignored when open or the execution is U12s level.

I don't think his timing of the play ahead is good either.

Also if you notice when we get the ball say 60-75 metres out on the wings. There are small mids or small forwards blocking the 'hole' inside the 50 directly in line with the kicker. It's really bad forward 50 play. There is no 'hole' for our kickers to put the ball into and allow the KPF to run too.. We got lucky with the kick to Treacy in the 4th, it was such a small hole for him to run into..

 

[freo84]

Got to love people that on the D + T thread saying we don't trade well so don't trade. I said we need to trade better.

These three are in the top 5-7 players on our list on form. Brayshaw, Serong, Treacy, Pearce, Clark, Jackson and Bolton. They're our genuine A Graders. Get Young fit and Chapman more confident and they'll join that list. Not to mention more games into Reid. We'll be a bloody good team if that happens.

That thread is stuck in the early 2000s still. They remember all the bad crap we did and don't recognise any of the great trades we made.

 

[Fat Nyfe]

They can't do that at centre bounce tho. Watching on tv for CB's it often looked like a connection / better reading of the play but I'd love to deep dive to know how they did it. Ross presser he insisted there were 'no tags' and 'we just played'. So a one on one approach I guess.

Ross has always been a bit of a bullshit artist. You're always getting a version of the truth with him, not THE truth. It was hard to tell for sure from the TV but Garcia on Serong didn't look like 'no tags' and 'just playing'. JL mentioned during the week they ran a double tag the first time we played, and Ross last night said they did the same thing as they did the first time - no tags. So someone is bullshitting. I'm just glad we don't have to play them again for another year, what an awful slog of a matchup they are.

 

[worsemim]

My impression is Amiss is basically suffering from the Josh Treacy effect—that is, if Josh Treacy is in the same forward line as Amiss, you can either nail a higher difficulty kick to hit up Amiss on a lead, or you can launch it indiscriminately in Treacy's direction and he'll at the very least make a damaging contest out of it. This is a team problem: we have to start picking out leads for all our forwards and making it easier on ourselves. I'd love to see the stats on who the i50 is directed towards when both are available, it feels like a 70-30 split in Treacy's direction. (Treacy is so good that I can't complain about this.)

For a few games we were playing Treacy as a really high half forward and he wasn't scoring; it looked like Amiss had that job yesterday, and he spent a lot of time on the wing pulling KPDs out of the backline to (attempt to) de-congest it for other forwards. We're also asking Amiss to provide a contest up the wing, rather than getting goalside of contest for sneaky out-the-back goals (the majority of his goals in 2023); worse for his stat sheet, better for the team. KPDs have a hard job stopping our multiple threats. Accordingly, we're no longer getting cut up by interceptors like we have through... well, the entire time I've been watching Fremantle play, to be quite honest. (Having Voss in the team, even on down games, also helps in this regard. When we send a ruck back, defenders are spread far too thin.)

Even when Jye is in the backline, he works really hard on running patterns, often to unconventional areas. These are also selflessly good for the team even when nobody kicks for him, as they make space for other leads and keep defenders occupied.

Eventually, he'll start winning more of those contests. He's a 21 year old KPF. It's gonna take some time to have a complete product. But we shouldn't underrate the role he plays in his current form.

 

[rgauci]

I really need to watch the game again, but our skills were shocking. Often we have players open, and just can't hit them on the lead.

We badly need Young, Simpson and co back, plus ideally draft a few more with great skills.


Erasmus was good. I thought his kicking was solid. I think he has locked his spot in the 22

We have players on the lead but the kicker takes 1-2 seconds unnecessary pause before taking the kick. The player leading slows 5-10% and the chaser speeds up leading to a timely spoil. If we executed faster, that is an easy chest mark.

 

[jusjoshin]

Does anyone have an explanation for why Saints destroy us in clearance? I have absolutely nothing and don't understand why its happening.

I don't buy this being an effort or intent thing.

They were running a +1 or even a +2 at the bounces all day. Very taxing way to play as it means they weren't rotating their mids enough. Probably why their workrate fell off a little in the last quarter and we started smashing them in the middle.

 

[Dockeroo]

If amiss is only going to be good on a lead - we might as well play Sam Sturt

1

Sam Sturt

Age

25

Ht

190cm

Wt

81kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

7.7

2star

K

4.0

2star

HB

3.7

3star

M

2.3

2star

T

1.0

3star

G

1.3

5star

D

7.7

2star

K

4.0

1star

HB

3.7

3star

M

2.3

2star

T

1.0

2star

G

1.3

5star

D

7.7

2star

K

4.0

2star

HB

3.7

3star

M

2.3

3star

T

1.0

3star

G

1.3

5star

instead of him when he’s fit then. At least he’ll kick most of the goals from the ensuing set shots.

Also this narrative that Amiss is struggling because our delivery i50 is not good enough is dubious - the delivery i50 is no worse than it was in 2023 or even last year. But amiss was still much more effective then.

 

[malpaso]

We should throw everything we had for Pickett at NWM and then some..

 

[Ghost Pig]

Since we started playing the three talls in 2023 we went from 9th at the end of 2022, to 5th end of 2023 and were 1st in the AFL for lowest intercept marks against 2024 and currently 1st again through 16 rounds.

Surely you guys remember the days when multiple oppo defenders would just drop into the hole and take double digit intercept marks on our long kicks inside 50.

Well the long kicks are still there so what changed?

Amiss, Treacy, Jackson and now Voss all deserve credit for this.

 

[Tony_Clifton]

Surely you guys remember the days when multiple oppo defenders would just drop into the hole and take double digit intercept marks on our long kicks inside 50.

Oh dear god yes. I do remember. I also somehow didn't notice that the problem had faded away. Thanks for the insight.

 

[Alfonz]

They were running a +1 or even a +2 at the bounces all day. Very taxing way to play as it means they weren't rotating their mids enough. Probably why their workrate fell off a little in the last quarter and we started smashing them in the middle.

That's part of it, but they also smashed us at centre clearances when there were even numbers. Thankfully we got the one that mattered the most at the end.

 

[Mags98]

feels like its jeremy sharp all over again

yeah guys the reaso hes having no impact is because of the game plan! those 4 touches and dropped marks means we are winning games so we need to keep him in.

come on, hes in rubbish form, cant kick straight and can not take a mark for his life. not many options atm with the injuries but he should be getting worried once switta/sturt are back

 

[noise36]

Yeah delivery to Amiss for some reason is very bad, he's either ignored when open or the execution is U12s level.

What happens most of the time is the guy kicking into forward fifty burns a bunch of leads including Amiss then kicks it in high to a pack.

If you watch a game of a good attacking team with good forwards they are often kicking into a forward line with a lot more space with forwards leading, the entire opposition team hasn't had time to setup already. Its basically our slow ball movement that making life pretty hard for guys like Amiss.

 

[malpaso]

My impression is Amiss is basically suffering from the Josh Treacy effect—that is, if Josh Treacy is in the same forward line as Amiss, you can either nail a higher difficulty kick to hit up Amiss on a lead, or you can launch it indiscriminately in Treacy's direction and he'll at the very least make a damaging contest out of it. This is a team problem: we have to start picking out leads for all our forwards and making it easier on ourselves. I'd love to see the stats on who the i50 is directed towards when both are available, it feels like a 70-30 split in Treacy's direction. (Treacy is so good that I can't complain about this.)

For a few games we were playing Treacy as a really high half forward and he wasn't scoring; it looked like Amiss had that job yesterday, and he spent a lot of time on the wing pulling KPDs out of the backline to (attempt to) de-congest it for other forwards. We're also asking Amiss to provide a contest up the wing, rather than getting goalside of contest for sneaky out-the-back goals (the majority of his goals in 2023); worse for his stat sheet, better for the team. KPDs have a hard job stopping our multiple threats. Accordingly, we're no longer getting cut up by interceptors like we have through... well, the entire time I've been watching Fremantle play, to be quite honest. (Having Voss in the team, even on down games, also helps in this regard. When we send a ruck back, defenders are spread far too thin.)

Even when Jye is in the backline, he works really hard on running patterns, often to unconventional areas. These are also selflessly good for the team even when nobody kicks for him, as they make space for other leads and keep defenders occupied.

Eventually, he'll start winning more of those contests. He's a 21 year old KPF. It's gonna take some time to have a complete product. But we shouldn't underrate the role he plays in his current form.

Great analysis but according to dominguez this is all on David Walls drafting and trading good players and not on our head coach doing anything to make us better..

 

[Paracleet]

My impression is Amiss is basically suffering from the Josh Treacy effect—that is, if Josh Treacy is in the same forward line as Amiss, you can either nail a higher difficulty kick to hit up Amiss on a lead, or you can launch it indiscriminately in Treacy's direction and he'll at the very least make a damaging contest out of it. This is a team problem: we have to start picking out leads for all our forwards and making it easier on ourselves. I'd love to see the stats on who the i50 is directed towards when both are available, it feels like a 70-30 split in Treacy's direction. (Treacy is so good that I can't complain about this.)

For a few games we were playing Treacy as a really high half forward and he wasn't scoring; it looked like Amiss had that job yesterday, and he spent a lot of time on the wing pulling KPDs out of the backline to (attempt to) de-congest it for other forwards. We're also asking Amiss to provide a contest up the wing, rather than getting goalside of contest for sneaky out-the-back goals (the majority of his goals in 2023); worse for his stat sheet, better for the team. KPDs have a hard job stopping our multiple threats. Accordingly, we're no longer getting cut up by interceptors like we have through... well, the entire time I've been watching Fremantle play, to be quite honest. (Having Voss in the team, even on down games, also helps in this regard. When we send a ruck back, defenders are spread far too thin.)

Even when Jye is in the backline, he works really hard on running patterns, often to unconventional areas. These are also selflessly good for the team even when nobody kicks for him, as they make space for other leads and keep defenders occupied.

Eventually, he'll start winning more of those contests. He's a 21 year old KPF. It's gonna take some time to have a complete product. But we shouldn't underrate the role he plays in his current form.

I actually think Amiss is mostly making a decent fist of creating a contest. Voss is probably the weakest link there in conceeding incepts to his key defender, but he is not doing too bad either. Easy to forget how inexperienced Voss is at AFL level too.

With Amiss I think we're seeing a combination of factors. Over and above what you identify I think he's struggling with his first season being heavier, confidence is down a touch and the opposition is really clogging up the centre half forward area. If they don't we have three key forwards elite on the lead so they really have no choice.

 

[Outshined]

I thought we were gone for all money when Higgins kicked the first in Q4, doomed to another Ross-inspired strangulation.

While we can acknowledge there are still concerns around the fact that the Saints’ not-so-subtly telegraphed blunting of our midfield + overloaded stoppages gameplan worked for 3 quarters, we still managed to turn it around when it mattered most. Another confidence building win.

Special mention to the Darcy-Jackson one-two punch which definitely wore Marshall down.

 

[Piggy Smalls]

Does anyone have an explanation for why Saints destroy us in clearance? I have absolutely nothing and don't understand why its happening.

I don't buy this being an effort or intent thing.

Pretty sure it came down largely to numbers. They swarmed extras into the centre bounces as soon as the ball was in play and they often had +1 or +2 at the main play stoppages. Virtually no other team does it, so our boys have very limited experience in knowing how to deal with it.
It's just typical Ross. Other teams play to win. Ross tries to make you lose.

 

[Dale147]

 

[Dale147]

 

[Footskill]

Centre clearance was bad as well but maybe that's more on the players? I might force a rewatch to see what happened out of the clearance and if they ever just dumped it long when not out if the centre, was it just turned over immediately and had them naturslly set up in a flood already.

Adam Simpson gives his take on this ...nothing groundbreaking but worth a listen

 

[Stevooo3940]

We simply have no good kicks inside 50 other than Bruce. Caleb sometimes chisels them but most of the time his possessions are contested. Imagine NAS or Jack Sinclair

35

Jack Sinclair

Age

31

Ht

181cm

Wt

82kg

Pos.

D/M

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.5

4star

K

8.1

3star

HB

8.4

5star

M

3.1

3star

T

3.2

5star

MG

235.0

4star

D

15.0

4star

K

10.0

4star

HB

5.0

3star

M

4.0

4star

T

2.0

3star

MG

376.0

5star

D

12.0

3star

K

4.2

2star

HB

7.8

5star

M

1.6

2star

T

2.0

4star

MG

138.2

3star

kicking to Amiss? He would have a field day. We need Young and Simpson back so badly for this very reason.

 

[anchor man]

Need to keep Swaggy. He was immense in the last, while Dogga was immense forward

He was that way all day.