Rumour Bluemour Discussion XXXVIII

[Aphrodite]

#BUMP from February


Re: 'Alleged' rumours resurfacing ...

Folks, this is the way things are here.

Posters are responsible for what they post. Moderators can not attest to the accuracy or otherwise of any rumour posted.

Moderators will intervene for a couple of reasons.

1. If a thread is threatening to be derailed because of a post.

2. If invested parties request the removal of material.

None of this draws a conclusion as to the accuracy or otherwise of the original post.

There is no need to further speculate. What will be will be.

Also, you need to remember that this thread like all parts of this forum is bound by the rules of poster conduct. If you want to express skepticism towards a rumour that's fine, but having a crack at posters who are contributors to this forum is simply not on and will be acted upon.

Simply put, don't be a dick.

Thanks all!

 

[JJBagger]

So we're not into Bergman, who is exactly what we need.
But we're into Fritsch, when a medium forward (especially some guy past his best) is not even in the top 3 things our forward line needs.

This is so peak Carlton, I could vomit.

So if Bergman costs $1 mil a year and our pick for TDK, would you do it?

 

[jj1978]

It is more about the current leaders being flawed and looking for an option with the right attitude and work ethic. He has some maturing to do, but we are soon going to part with our thirty plus brigade and the youth will be critical.

Crippa at or (more likely) approaching a decline, hopefully not a sharp one. Has a young family and other business interests.
The anointed (by some) Weitering is too authoritarian for mine. We need someone more nurturing.
Walshy self confessed with white line fever and prone to “grumpy” on track. Super competitive in any activity, developing players need some one to build them up, not look to keep them in their place. Injury issues also a go slow.

JSOS appears to have the right characteristics, but apparently more respected than liked by team mates. Also had his share of injuries and again, a young family

Cerra a chance, but copping the weight of expectation among our supporter base.

We are leader poor. Too many are more concerned with their own image and output than ticking the boxes that turn a group of players in to an effective, united team.

Leadership is a hell of a lot more than handing out instructions. Crippa is a follow me type and absolutely has been our best option until recently. Our list dynamic is changing and our senior players as a group have largely let us down.

Your points ring true and I feel the same pretty much. Though don't believe Cerra is cut out for it. Our current leadership group only has one person that resembles a balance of leadership qualities and that's Cripps. Yes he has his flaws at times and that can be fuelled by him trying to lead and getting it wrong.

Outside of Cripps our only other potential leaders could be;

• Hewett
• Haynes
• Newman

All have been around the block, are competitive, have earned respect of their team mates through action on and off the field. The ages of Haynes and Newman is of concern, it'd be too short term. And Hewett is only a year younger than Cripps.

What I would do next season is have the four of them in the leadership group next season and introduce 1-2 younger players (Cerra, ?) as well for experience. Having Walsh, Weitering, Charlie out of the official leadership group can at least see how they respond as leaders without an official title, will help in deciding if any of them deserving of taking the mantle in 27 when I think Cripps should relinquish the title.

 

[Gavstar]

Is Elijah’s career done?

Things are suspiciously quiet on that front.

That would be the icing on the cake.

Bluemour that he's played his last game for us (in No Discussion thread).

 

[macky99]

Bergman is a jet and his prototype is exactly what we need, but he will be getting close to 7 figure offers and Port will want at least one top 10 selection if not multiple.

Replacing TDK with Bergman does not fix our issues. We will still be top heavy and we need multiple pieces to change our list profile.

We need to find multiple Bergmans that are being played out of position or have not cracked the best 22. That’s how we fix our deficiencies whilst adding depth and remaining flexible in Cody’s draft.

If TDK leaves I’m hoping we finish as low as possible. Turn #5 into a later first and multiple 2nd rounders.

Bring in a ruckman and then 2 players with speed and kicking.

We also add Jagga, Newman returns and our best players have full preseasons and get fit.

Things can turn quickly IMO. It won’t be easy, but it’s possible.

The upcoming draft is not deep in talent like last year, if we do get a pick 5-7 which looks a good chance it makes sense to draft a quality player eg Lindsay & Marsh best available.
lf it was last year l would agree but l don't see a great depth of talent outside the first 6-8.

 

[C4[2]Yo`DooR]

Bluemour that he's played his last game for us (in No Discussion thread).

I’m not usually one to publicly push back on other “ITK” posters, but that Bluemour isn’t accurate at all.

He won’t be returning this year, but no final decision has been made about his future at this stage.

I’ve been across the Elijah situation well before it became public.

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

I know the incident, he didn’t come off the ground and when he did come off the ground they did a HIA but no SCAT. The HIA cleared him when obviously it shouldn’t have.
The port doctor admitted no following the protocol and said he should have. The club was fined 100k.
Both Aliir and Jones entered concussion protocol after the match and missed the following game.

If you have more information that clearly points the finger at Hinkley then please share it, if not I don’t think you have enough evidence to suggest Hinkley acted without care for his players.

If you have other incidents that show this mentality then I’m happy to be shown up.

Literally happened in 2022 as well. Just... Do your own work.

 

[lily of laguna]

Literally happened in 2022 as well. Just... Do your own work.

The prosecution rests your honour!

 

[AndyLucimitis]

I’m not usually one to publicly push back on other “ITK” posters, but that Bluemour isn’t accurate at all.

He won’t be returning this year, but no final decision has been made about his future at this stage.

I’ve been across the Elijah situation well before it became public.

That's great news. Such a talented player with a bit of spunk - exactly what we need.

We have his brother at the club and should back ourselves in to get him back on track.

If Geelong can do it with Stengle surely we can.

 

[RPCB]

That's great news. Such a talented play with a bit of spunk - exactly what we need.

We have his brother at the club and should back ourselves in to get him back on track.

If Geelong can do it with Stengle surely we can.

None of it is great news. Elijah gets paid to play football games for this club. Carlton FC is where he should be as we speak, not next year.

 

[Soapy V]

I’m over Voss bringing in players and playing them in the opposite way to what there natural strengths are.
They play to there strengths in the twos and then get brought into the seniors and told to be to defensive imo
Let players play there natural way a little more. Give them a license and some trust.

100%

This is why I am very cautious about promoting our young talent. Hasn't worked so far

 

[Gavstar]

I’m not usually one to publicly push back on other “ITK” posters, but that Bluemour isn’t accurate at all.

He won’t be returning this year, but no final decision has been made about his future at this stage.

I’ve been across the Elijah situation well before it became public.

Thanks for the clarification C4 I'll hope for the best for him then, he's a player who has the exact skill set we need.

 

[AB_Blue]

100%

This is why I am very cautious about promoting our young talent. Hasn't worked so far

Agree to a point but we can’t be playing players who are not fit or injured

Cripps, Wieters, JSOS or Acres shouldn’t have played last week

 

[TwiggleyFanClub]

So if Bergman costs $1 mil a year and our pick for TDK, would you do it?

If TDK is going, then probably. Otherwise there's no money to get close.
I can't see how we get his sort of quality for less than that, and we are a couple of years behind the rest of the comp as far as the type of player a modern midfield needs so we can't afford to just recruit.
Bergman has pace, kicking skills, running power and is just getting into his peak age as a footballer, and we don't have much if any of that.

$1M for Bergman is far better value than what we're currently shelling the same sort of money for:

• battered midfield bulls who are now a defensive liability
• failed midfielders turned half-forwards who have the skills we need but can't get onto the park (include Martin in that too before we cut him)
• swingmen who can't deliver at either end under pressure
• key forwards who can't get onto the field or insist on playing stupid footy against bigger, better-organised defenders.

Him and Jagga back next year transforms our midfield. Gives us pace and skill we currently don't have with cover for Jagga (1 19yo can't do it all himself), and lets Walsh play more outside where he can calm down and hopefully dispose of the ball a bit better.

 

[bradfisher14]

I’m not usually one to publicly push back on other “ITK” posters, but that Bluemour isn’t accurate at all.

He won’t be returning this year, but no final decision has been made about his future at this stage.

I’ve been across the Elijah situation well before it became public.

 

[Blue Pulse]

Agree to a point but we can’t be playing players who are not fit or injured

Cripps, Wieters, JSOS or Acres shouldn’t have played last week

Totally agree with you, but I feel that ship has sailed. It is part of the reason we are where we are. Voss has put guys straight back into the senior side after long injury lay offs and played guys who aren't 100% or in poor form. Playing guys who are carrying injuries instead of playing VFL guys in form absolutely stinks.

Their was footage of Joey Montagna on Fox talking about our next 5 who haven't lived up to their pay cheques, Saad, McGovern, Cerra, Williams, Acres who haven't performed well enough. I agree, but Voss created this, played them when injured, played when not performing, never had to worry about their selection. No selection integrity.



Cottrell is another who is a Voss favourite, Durdin, Motlop last year played when injured. Guys have to find form back in the 2's and come back firing.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

Totally agree with you, but I feel that ship has sailed. It is part of the reason we are where we are. Voss has put guys straight back into the senior side after long injury lay offs and played guys who aren't 100% or in poor form. Playing guys who are carrying injuries instead of playing VFL guys in form absolutely stinks.

Their was footage of Joey Montagna on Fox talking about our next 5 who haven't lived up to their pay cheques, Saad, McGovern, Cerra, Williams, Acres who haven't performed well enough. I agree, but Voss created this, played them when injured, played when not performing, never had to worry about their selection. No selection integrity.



Cottrell is another who is a Voss favourite, Durdin, Motlop last year played when injured. Guys have to find form back in the 2's and come back firing.

King is such a hateful moron though. His suggestion for us is just to shut up and lose. What a moron. Montagna is right, if we refresh a-la-Collingwood we have a path forward.

 

[teagueyubeauty]

tbf, things went really bad...

I mean, last year when we started losing, the fanbase didn't get as aggravated as in the past.

Sure, people got frustrated that we let top 4 slip, but the anger was more directed at Russell with some frustration at Voss... but not really until that EF.

Then there was r1... all downhill from there...

Fans can only take so much. Did you see that graphic showing how many games teams have won since 2000? We have just more than GC and GWS... look at when those teams joined the comp!

So many losses we've endured, so many seasons, 10 year rebuild and this is where we are... fans have every right to be pissed off. I'm not advocating behaviour like spraying the walls at Ikon park... or standing outside and eye balling the players as they enter...

But I stand by that is a major cop out to blame supporters for any part of this... absolute nonsense.

tbf, things went really bad...

I mean, last year when we started losing, the fanbase didn't get as aggravated as in the past.

Sure, people got frustrated that we let top 4 slip, but the anger was more directed at Russell with some frustration at Voss... but not really until that EF.

Then there was r1... all downhill from there...

Fans can only take so much. Did you see that graphic showing how many games teams have won since 2000? We have just more than GC and GWS... look at when those teams joined the comp!

So many losses we've endured, so many seasons, 10 year rebuild and this is where we are... fans have every right to be pissed off. I'm not advocating behaviour like spraying the walls at Ikon park... or standing outside and eye balling the players as they enter...

But I stand by that is a major cop out to blame supporters for any part of this... absolute nonsense.

You know what, I work for a media organisation not as a journalist but I know many of them very well.
I had a massive crack at one last week about the top 5 stories on their website and on their marketing emails being about the Carlton situation and one of those articles basically saying Voss should be sacked…now it’s an opinion business and I get that but how do you think that makes the whole Voss family feel and the players as well.

He responded to me with something along the lines of “ this is exactly what Carlton supporters want, they smell blood and they won’t stop until they get it so we are just feeding into that narrative. Carlton supporters are like no other supporter out there”

I had the pleasure of standing outside gate 3 between quarters n the Essendon game and swing some absolute peanut going off about us to every single other person out there, literally like a rabid dog…I see that here, on Facebook, twitter everywhere else you can name.

It’s not healthy man, at all…to the individuals concerned and to those within the club.

Im upset we are here again, flipping oath I am but people need to calm the **** down and be an adult about it. And until we as a supporter base do I don’t think anything will change

 

[Bale Dup]

I'll ask again.

Why would Bergman, or any other quality player, want to come to us over other clubs. Culture? Coach? Future success? Playing group? Game style?

As has been pointed out, there are other clubs in the mix, and for any quality players looking to move, there will always be other clubs involved and most of them appear a far more enticing proposition than us, in terms of things like club culture, future success and game style (who wants to come and get bashed every week)

So, other than money, which, if that's what gets them here, means we will surely "overpay" for that person, what else can we offer?

And if it turns out that we can't attract these players in some demand, does that mean we then revert to recruiting lesser players and the cycle continues.

It is going to require a massive effort from the club and playing group, between now and the end of the season, to make us anything close to attractive, to the likes of Bergman etc imo

 

[Schoonerman]

According to AFL website Bergman about to sign for 2 more years to take him to free agency...

 

[Aphrodite]

According to AFL website Bergman about to sign for 2 more years to take him to free agency...

Power star set to turn down monster Victorian offers

Miles Bergman is set to stay in South Australia on a new deal that will take him through to free agency

www.afl.com.au

 

[Aphrodite]

Carlton not involved in any talks with Bergman at this stage.

Weighing up offers from Port, Essendon, St Kilda, WB and Hawthorn.

About to re-sign with Port …

Power star set to turn down monster Victorian offers

Miles Bergman is set to stay in South Australia on a new deal that will take him through to free agency

www.afl.com.au

 

[CJMB]

Agree to a point but we can’t be playing players who are not fit or injured

Cripps, Wieters, JSOS or Acres shouldn’t have played last week

...and ultimately the players are accountable. They put their hand up to play despite the known fitness or illness issues, they're completely to blame for the unacceptable performances.

 

[JJBagger]

Power star set to turn down monster Victorian offers

Miles Bergman is set to stay in South Australia on a new deal that will take him through to free agency

www.afl.com.au

Probably smart from him. His stocks are going to go through the roof the next couple of years

 

[TwiggleyFanClub]

I'll ask again.

Why would Bergman, or any other quality player, want to come to us over other clubs. Culture? Coach? Future success? Playing group? Game style?

As has been pointed out, there are other clubs in the mix, and for any quality players looking to move, there will always be other clubs involved and most of them appear a far more enticing proposition than us, in terms of things like club culture, future success and game style (who wants to come and get bashed every week)

So, other than money, which, if that's what gets them here, means we will surely "overpay" for that person, what else can we offer?

And if it turns out that we can't attract these players in some demand, does that mean we then revert to recruiting lesser players and the cycle continues.

It is going to require a massive effort from the club and playing group, between now and the end of the season, to make us anything close to attractive, to the likes of Bergman etc imo

We have very little to offer, but also have to have a crack.
We can't recruit our way out of it quickly enough, and absolutely do not need more journeymen who either are spuds, loose cannons, past it, or can't stay fit/uninjured. Not at stupid Martin/Williams/McGovern money. Not even at Lij money.

 

[carlton_99]

King is such a hateful moron though. His suggestion for us is just to shut up and lose. What a moron. Montagna is right, if we refresh a-la-Collingwood we have a path forward.

King is just a lazy analyst. Just gets given Champion Data numbers and regurgitates them back to the viewer.