Autopsy Round 18, 2025: Hawks fall short

[The Golden Glenferrie]

Or start him to shut someone down.

But FFS, don't use him as sub.

100%

 

[Gut Runner]

Let’s be honest, that game last night pretty much sums up our season. It’s been average without being great. I think outside the Dogs, Swans, GWS and crows game (north doesn’t count) we have just been ok..

We really lack polish and skills under pressure and silly little mistakes cost us every damn week. How many skill errors last night cost us? I think I counted 6 goals from turnovers, that’s just not good enough.

Guys like Moore, Mass, CJ, McKenzie, (Harry to a lesser extent, I think been ok this year) have all played well below their best, and unfortunately without Day our midfield just gets smacked most weeks.

outside the obvious of getting a few players back, Scrim, Lewis, and maybe a Weddle , we clearly need to hit the draft and find ourselves a gun midfielder.

disappointment is the best way to describe this, an opportunity lost.

Skills under pressure.

Peter Daicos pretended the Pies worked this out but it was really Port Adelaide.

Good teams that apply really good pressure cause us to stuff up that first inside disposal and then teams kill us on the outside.

 

[Wingnut19]

Or start him to shut someone down.

But FFS, don't use him as sub.

With what Worpel and Mackenzie are offering offensively you lose nothing replacing them with Finn as a tagger. You as may as well take their best mid out of game and lose nothing on other end with replacing one of the other two. I know he was subbed but i would keep Mackenzie over Worpel. Worps is too similar to Newk and Nash. Still believe in Frenchie. Rather pump games into him now than Worps.

 

[Yardie]

Sam was outcoached again. Needed to tag Serong. Why else play Finn?

I have never seen a player miss as many tackles as CJ tonight. Scrim needs to come in for him. McKenzie out for Butler. Worpel for Day in a fortnight. Chol really struggles v good teams. Not sure how to get a Lewis in the team, but we must. Sicily was OK. I thought we were poor all night not sure how we were in front. We lack leadership. We panicked.

Have to agree here. We all know Finn's limitations around disposal. But his elite attribute is endurance and shutting down role. He either is in the team for a full game to tag or not at all. The benefit of playing him for four quarters in a tagging role is that he wears down his opponent and then in the fourth he should be getting opportunity as his opponent won't be as fresh.

The sub is about impact. CJ brings energy and impact when he is the sub and that showed in the couple of games he is the sub. Finn doesn't bring impact.

I think Sam is struggling in being ruthless. He wants to be close to his players but isn't making the right decisions for the team. Almost second guessing himself and being too loyal. He has shown he can be that person just remember the spray he gave Scrimshaw.

 

[Yardie]

Agree. We dont lost any run replacing CJ with Scrimshaw. Maybe the appearance of dash, but Scrimshaw can move the ball quicker and more precisely than CJ can run.

He is exactly what we need in the team. Self-assured with ball in hand and has a bit of c*nt in him.

You bring in Seamus if you drop CJ. Scrim is fighting Battle and Sicily for a spot.

 

[Yardie]

With what Worpel and Mackenzie are offering offensively you lose nothing replacing them with Finn as a tagger. You as may as well take their best mid out of game and lose nothing on other end with replacing one of the other two. I know he was subbed but i would keep Mackenzie over Worpel. Worps is too similar to Newk and Nash. Still believe in Frenchie. Rather pump games into him now than Worps.

People talk about needing to have another A grade mid (which is Day when fit). Which I do agree with. But when other teams have two A grade mids and we have only one then the best way forward is to play Finn and negate one of their A grade mids.

 

[MC_9]

With what Worpel and Mackenzie are offering offensively you lose nothing replacing them with Finn as a tagger. You as may as well take their best mid out of game and lose nothing on other end with replacing one of the other two. I know he was subbed but i would keep Mackenzie over Worpel. Worps is too similar to Newk and Nash. Still believe in Frenchie. Rather pump games into him now than Worps.

100% agree with this. I get the back your own system when it backed up with a high level of talent. Eg if we had 3 A grade mids you would back your system. But with just Newc and a bunch of role players or young player's, we need to negate the opposition best player. I don't know why Sam has gone away from tagging, when it worked well at the back end of 23.

 

[Ashman23]

Season's over, play the kids, plan for next season's tilt at a top four spot. We're just making up the numbers.

 

[Arkadia]

We are risking us scoring more than the oppo overall knowing we will get opened up badly at times.

Saints easily could have beaten us last week and last night really we should have won if we kicked a bit straighter but more so freo didnt. Our DE was down last night and that hurt us too. A few critical turnovers and missed shots at goal and we retain control.

It’s a risky game plan based on us winning more ball and retaining it to set up scores. I think it shows in selection with McKenzie getting a gig two weeks in a row despite poor form and Finn not coming in to tag.

it’s so clear to the eye we need breakaway speed in the centre square but we refuse to change it up. And we need more zip at half forward. It’s a tough watch at present.

Spot on with your observation…..

I’ve harped on this all year. Our midfield has flaws and the way we set up at centre bounces/ stoppages has been a concern of mine…
Last year we played this exciting brand of Hokball, quick ball movement, run and dash from the backline, take the game on and we credit this game plan to our head coach Sammy…

However, this year, teams have worked us out, stopped our run from the back, putting pressure on Amon, Ambo, Impey, cutting our avenue to attack from the back…

This is where our midfield should have stepped up or should I say more specifically our midfield Coach/coaches “Hale”..
We don’t have midfielders who offer speed and burst from centre bounces or stoppages….
We have the inside mids in Newk, Worpel, we have the negating mids in Nash, Finn and then we have our smooth accumulators in Ward, Frenchie and i am a fan of HH. The poor kid gets played out of position whenever he comes into the side and is subbed immediately things are not going our way..
This year our midfield has been bereft of run and dash…
Our only burst midfielder from centre bounces/stoppages is Day.

I am also a fan of Sam Butler & Seamus Mitchell…they have had good numbers whenever they play…ie, tackles, pressure count…unfortunately they make way for the senior players coming in….

Another glaring flaw this year, when it comes to the big games, our on field leaders have gone missing..
Dylan Moore comes to mind….

Last night was a game of 1 percentres , missed tackles, missed shots on goal, poor turnovers resulting in goals….

I’m pretty confident we will make the 8, Sammy will work out the balance of the team, however he needs his assistants to step up. One of the reasons Clarko was a great Coach, he had good assistants…

Whatever happens for the rest of the year, we need to recruit a speedy midfielder, one who can break the lines from centre square…..

 

[unitedhawk2]

100% agree with this. I get the back your own system when it backed up with a high level of talent. Eg if we had 3 A grade mids you would back your system. But with just Newc and a bunch of role players or young player's, we need to negate the opposition best player. I don't know why Sam has gone away from tagging, when it worked well at the back end of 23.

My own amateur assessment is that Sam doesn't foresee us playing a tagger when we're playing in PFs and GFs and he wants our game-plan to reflect that.

That's fine but then why play Finn at all? Harsh as it might sound, he doesn't possess the skills to be anything but a tagger.

Worse still, why waste him on the subs bench?

I asked the question earlier in the thread, before the opening bounce last night, about whether Sam has, at any time in 2024 or 2025, provided his reasoning for playing Finn as sub. There were a couple of reasonable replies but I think they were the posters' own (quite reasonable) explanations rather than Sam's reasoning.

I'll ask the question again because I'm genuinely curious: Has Sam himself ever explained his reasoning for playing Finn as sub?

 

[FB19]

The calls for Chol to be dropped are astonishing. Wonder if he looked different would they be the same.

I disagree and please leave the race card out it clearly had nothing to do with that. Chol won’t and shouldn’t be dropped for one bad game but it was a bad game and he is rightfully criticised. CJ was appalling as must be dropped, same Mackenzie and I would add Moore. Nothing to do with skin colour just performance and if you read the post, it’s a like for like replacement. Are you proposing that Lewis comes in for Gunston or Dear instead and that the poster should have also drawn that conclusion, else he is racist? Going on last night they were both better than Chol so either he goes out, you manage Jack (as dear won’t go out as just came back and was good) or you don’t do a like for like which would be problematic.

 

[burger09]

We had one A grade mid out there again and it will eventually catch up with you. Considering this we are having a solid season.

I think almost everyone has now caught on that until we improve this area we won't be contenders.

 

[TylerDurden]

I actually thought Finn was good when he came on. Gave us more than McKenzie.

Next week won't be easy, but Port do have their share of injuries now.

Are we sneaky chance of bringing Day in early?

 

[bigmaxi]

Can someone please put up the Port preview thread, had enough now.

 

[SSSSSS]

Frenchy hasn't been the same since his hand injury.

Why we persist with Finn as a sub is mind boggling. Should be starting games and clamping down on their best mid/HBF.

We learned zero lessons from Sydney clamping down on Serong/Clark. Lost this game in the coaches box.

 

[Buttonsticher]

I actually thought Finn was good when he came on. Gave us more than McKenzie.

Next week won't be easy, but Port do have their share of injuries now.

Are we sneaky chance of bringing Day in early?

Last I heard he was on track for a R20 return. Haven't heard whether its via the magoos or not.

 

[SSSSSS]

Chol gets a pass. Has been excellent all year but he had a shocker.

Sicily is just a complete liability at the moment. Were banking on him finding touch before September but if he keeps these performances up we might not even feature in September.

 

[grumbleguts]

Anyone notice that Conor MacDonald's soccer goal was later attributed to Dear.

Dear has a habit of not wanting his team mates to score.

 

[Simon Crawshay]

Given Chol and Dear almost play like 6 foot 6 small forwards with their pressure and ground ball skills I wouldn't be against rolling with a Dear, Gunners, Lewis, Chol forward combo (with Ginni and Wizard as our "proper" small forwards).

Lewis to me is still the only key forward we have who can take a big, pack mark and we need that.

Gunners is a crafty lead up forward, Dear and Chol are leapers but Lewis is the one who has the size and the hands to be our "true" key forward.

 

[DearJai]

Not at all but his game was unbalanced.

Still one of our best, and arguably in the top 2 or 3 for us yesterday.

We're all disappointed, but we lost this game through poor kicking as much or more than anything.

Very poor last quarter from the whole team. But it still would have been enough to get over the line if we'd made more out of those dominant periods where the shots at goal were flowing.

 

[Hawkers Hero]

We looked like we turned a corner in the lead up to and in the North game. Not a surprise to me that losing Weddle for Sic and Buts for Worpel has killed the momentum.

I'm all for dropping Worpel at this point, he has only topped 25 touches once this year and the club has only won 3 games when he has played in the guts this year - Richmond, Melbourne, WC. The other two wins (Sydney and Dogs) he wasn't a factor due to injury. Not sure if it's the ankle still not right or the contract situation but I don't think he is adding much to the mix this year.

Sic has never been blessed with pace and the 2 B's have resulted in us being killed by small and medium forwards all year (Switkowski, Bolton, Frederick just the latest in a long line).

 

[Hodgey 15]

Season's over, play the kids, plan for next season's tilt at a top four spot. We're just making up the numbers.

Typical for some on Big Footy after a loss.

 

[SSSSSS]

If Butler is good to go I'd have him over Worpel or Frenchy.

Speed and defensive intent.

Those two are sieves in the middle.

 

[TassieGrown]

Anyone notice that Conor MacDonald's soccer goal was later attributed to Dear.

Dear has a habit of not wanting his team mates to score.

Haha I was wondering where the 3rd goal came from

 

[HedgeFund]

Been a tough year. Supporters were hoping we would continue on from last seasons form where we steam rolled teams in the second half of the year and it hasn’t happened.

So many players form has dropped right off from last year which for me has been tough.

WTF?

It’s been a tough year?

We are 11-6 and still a chance of top 4.

Supporters who expected us to spank the likes of Collingwood by 10 goals in 2025, purely because we did that in late 2024 are completely unrealistic to put it lightly.

Go back and read the melts after we lost to GWS by 2 points in Rd 21 2024.

“Season cooked”
“Waste of time now”
“Need to work out where we sit for next year”

Guess what, the players and coaches don’t wave the white flag.

The answer is:

1. deliver superior pressure and intensity between the arcs.

2. Take our chances in front of goal

Which is what we did after the Brisbane and Collingwood losses.

It begins with Port in Tassie and I expect nothing less than the same response Fremantle gave their fans after they were shaded by Sydney.

Keep the faith people.