Autopsy Cats lose to GWS* AFL trust fund babies by 26 points.

[Tony Barber]

You also got upset pre game when someone suggested that you were discounting Geelong’s chances.

Can’t have it both ways.

I didn't get upset over anything.

I swear that you now come on here purely to create an argument with someone.
You never used to be like that.

 

[Jimmy Yamazaki]

Bartel did a break down on why GWS and Brisbane beat us

The put speed on the ball, GWS do via handball releasing the ball forward and Lions do it with short kicking.

Short kicks or handballs and constantly changing angles means our defense can't settle.

Can other teams do this to us? Yes but they 1 need the players to do it and 2 have to be winning the contest.

 

[ShaunWDT]

SDK is better 1v1 than COS. He just needs to have Henry and/or Kolo beside him. COS and SDK without any help earlier in the year was obviously not going to be rock solid.

Henry and SDK, with one of COS and Blicavs filling defensive space - that's a combination that works okay. Even better if we had Kolo, but that's looking unlikely.

Right now he is but we'll see the benefit from getting that exposure into COS now, once he grows into his body and doesnt get rag dolled by the top forwards as easily hes going to be a star.

 

[ShaunWDT]

Bartel did a break down on why GWS and Brisbane beat us

The put speed on the ball, GWS do via handball releasing the ball forward and Lions do it with short kicking.

Short kicks or handballs and constantly changing angles means our defense can't settle.

Can other teams do this to us? Yes but they 1 need the players to do it and 2 have to be winning the contest.

Our weakness is pretty easy to see and more and more clubs have gone to work on it, at some point the clubs got to adjust the way we play or the top echelon of teams that have the cattle will just leave us behind.

 

[cats_09]

After Aaron & Finn, there wasn't much consensus amongst the coaches

 

[Hinkley29]

I didn't get upset over anything.

I swear that you now come on here purely to create an argument with someone.
You never used to be like that.

I don’t create arguments. I just have less tolerance than I used to, and am more inclined to call out BS.

Feedback is a gift.

 

[Hinkley29]

Maybe get their perception of distance right. 15 metres is still fifteen metres.. No ambiguity there.
Get Stanley in as a sponsor and send them all home with a complementary tape measure.

Now that is the rule interpretation that I would get the most cranky about. Cadman kicked a goal from a kick that travelled about 5 metres in distance, but because it went high up and down the umps called it a mark. The 15m mistakes is one that the umps need to wear. HTB and throw/handball on the other hand I give the umps a pass.

But I am still trying to be zen about it, so I am staying relaxed and remind myself that the mistakes all even out (hopefully).

 

[ShaunWDT]

I don’t create arguments. I just have less tolerance than I used to, and am more inclined to call out BS.

Feedback is a gift.

Keep swinging brother

 

[Generalissimo]

A week off suspended (or dropped) wouldn’t hurt him or the team.

He had a foul stench last night and was carrying an odour in the weeks prior.

I think you'll find MOC has been playing deeper in defence with De Koning missing. He's otherwise had a good season pushing up into the midfield a bit.

 

[Mr Meow]

After Aaron & Finn, there wasn't much consensus amongst the coaches

View attachment 2367898

3 Giants defenders (Buckley unlucky tbh), 1 Giants midfielder and 2 Giants forwards. Dismantled across all 3 lines. Our defenders and forwards, much like the Brisbane game, have escaped some heat relative to the low-performing midfield.

 

[ShaunWDT]

I think you'll find MOC has been playing deeper in defence with De Koning missing. He's otherwise had a good season pushing up into the midfield a bit.

He pretty much played key back on the weekend, that's never been his go.

 

[Balardong]

Hard to see a happy ending to the year after our most recent two losses.

Zuta's post about the running stats pretty much matched what the eye saw ... sheesh. I'll do some research later to see if that's a trend.

Things to cling to?

• Can we play one, just one, game against a contender without Stewart getting hobbled early and having to play the game sore? Has it actually happened in every single one of the losses he's played in?
• Shannon Neale. Nuff said. (WA clubs will come for him, of course)
• That first ten minutes was on fire stuff. Then .... pfffffffft.
• That's the worst unforced turnover game I've seen from us in a long, long time. I mean, there have been games with dumb kicks straight to a spare defender, but this was different.

I think Chris Scott has fallen into the trap of unintentionally allowing Smith and Holmes to become the game plan rather than the cream on the cake. Unfortunately this consigns too many others in the team to role players maintaining shape to make space for them rather than spreading responsibility and opportunity across the playing group. This game plan works against lesser teams, but the good teams like Brisbane and GWS have worked it out and they minimise the impact of Geelong’s midfield. Both Smith and Holmes are valuable line breakers but then they kick the ball predictably long down the line and usually to a contest rather than to advantage. This results in turnovers. They are not elite decision makers, their disposal is often ineffective, and they don’t run hard enough to help out defensively. So often the Cats have players laterally in space who don’t get rewarded with the ball and the team misses out on the opportunity to change the angles. It can all be fixed if Smith and Holmes roles are tinkered with to optimise their strengths, but more importantly to maximise the qualities of their team mates. If they start to use their running ability equal parts offensively and defensively, and distribute the ball by hand or lateral kicks to better decision makers like Martin, Miers, Humphries, Close, Dempsey, Mannagh, Guthrie then the team will become more cohesive and unpredictable pretty quickly

 

[Mr Meow]

I think Chris Scott has fallen into the trap of unintentionally allowing Smith and Holmes to become the game plan rather than the cream on the cake. Unfortunately this consigns too many others in the team to role players maintaining shape to make space for them rather than spreading responsibility and opportunity across the playing group. This game plan works against lesser teams, but the good teams like Brisbane and GWS have worked it out and they minimise the impact of Geelong’s midfield. Both Smith and Holmes are valuable line breakers but then they kick the ball predictably long down the line and usually to a contest rather than to advantage. This results in turnovers. They are not elite decision makers, their disposal is often ineffective, and they don’t run hard enough to help out defensively. So often the Cats have players laterally in space who don’t get rewarded with the ball and the team misses out on the opportunity to change the angles. It can all be fixed if Smith and Holmes roles are tinkered with to optimise their strengths, but more importantly to maximise the qualities of their team mates. If they start to use their running ability equal parts offensively and defensively, and distribute the ball by hand or lateral kicks to better decision makers like Martin, Miers, Humphries, Close, Dempsey, Mannagh, Guthrie then the team will become more cohesive and unpredictable pretty quickly

There's a hell of a lot of sense here. I agree that both, but especially Smith, need to round out there game with more defensive accountability. Basically making sure when they're not breaking lines themselves, that they are making it tricky for the opposition to execute clean plays. But that also goes on the whole team. Sloppy ball use and poor defence of turnovers against GWS and Brisbane have been a team-wide responsibility where only a couple have been blameless.

Tactically I'm not sure Scott is misdirecting overall. However it's unclear why we aren't tagging at least one Lion/Giant prime mover. Maybe we are, but unsuccessfully? We are doing a terrible job of defending their ball movement - that's the most glaring issue. And 4 or 5 of our forwards/wingmen are being completely nullified.

Many things to work on.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

Not going to disagree on Stengle, gun player. The rest of your post is spot on.

I don't think SDK makes much difference if any. He has become a myth, I've never seen a player coast on such a small vein of (very good) form that was now years ago.

Let's be honest, he has been a below average player outside of 2022.

We played some of our best football last year when Kolo and Henry were our pillars and he was out.

He has zero closing speed, Hogan or Cadman would have absolutely torched him. And at the very least COS plays with confidence and marks more than he drops. SDK is nowhere near the player nor overheard mark he was three years ago. He's jittery, he lets it out the back a lot. Is below average at killing the ball.

I'm going to leave it at that because I don't want to sound like a broken record, but SDK isn't making one iota of difference to Saturday night or three weeks ago against Brisbane.

Limited impact player as of right now.

I'd encourage most on this board to actually go back and watch some matches from 2022. The drop off is almost unbelievable. But it's looking more and more like a flash in the pan.

Wasnt there a stat going around earlier in the year where SDK had the highest contest win rate in the league? Was a few months ago now

 

[Mr Meow]

Wasnt there a stat going around earlier in the year where SDK had the highest contest win rate in the league? Was a few months ago now

It was after the last GWS game but held up until he was injured. SDK ranks exceptionally highly in 1v1 contests (equal 1st with Sam Taylor at 8.7% loss rate).

His weakness, which won't be shown by that stat, is losing his opponent by leads or out the back. If he's close to his man he almost never gets beaten in 2025, but he does lose his man here and there (the bit that we notice from a negative perspective).

 

[CatToTheFuture]

There will never be a replacement for putting your head over the ball and committing. If you're not willing to do it, you'll be beaten by the team that will.

We've been spoiled over the years with guys like Selwood, Danger, Bartel, Chapman, etc. It makes it hard to accept watching Dempsey shirking contests and floating around like a seagull for a loose chip.

I hope the guys inside the club are helping him with this aspect of his game. He needs to improve. It can't always be a flat-track day at the beach. Some games you really need to get your knuckles bloody.

For what it's worth, I really like Dempsey and I believe he'll be better.

Makes Clark not coming on all the more frustrating. Whatever his deficiencies intent at the contest isn't one of them

 

[CatToTheFuture]

It was after the last GWS game but held up until he was injured. SDK ranks exceptionally highly in 1v1 contests (equal 1st with Sam Taylor at 8.7% loss rate).

His weakness, which won't be shown by that stat, is losing his opponent by leads or out the back. If he's close to his man he almost never gets beaten in 2025, but he does lose his man here and there (the bit that we notice from a negative perspective).

Yeah I just hope the loss rate from losing his man isn't just due to him following instructions for team structure. Like the first GWS game I feel like he had to be following instructions from the coaches to give up that much space to just try to intercept without a spare man to do so

 

[gypsy_1]

Now that is the rule interpretation that I would get the most cranky about. Cadman kicked a goal from a kick that travelled about 5 metres in distance, but because it went high up and down the umps called it a mark. The 15m mistakes is one that the umps need to wear. HTB and throw/handball on the other hand I give the umps a pass.

But I am still trying to be zen about it, so I am staying relaxed and remind myself that the mistakes all even out (hopefully).

Please please change the rule to 20 metre kicks or play on. Its so frustrating watching teams including Geelong playing keepings off with little dinky often 10 metre kicks. It too easily allows teams to change momentum. Making kicks 20 meters or play on can cause chaos and exciting turnovers, awarding teams who exert pressure. How boring it is to watch kick mark kick mark with short kicks. Brisbane is best at this tactic. Only in recent times have umpires been stricter with 15 metre interpretation. However, its the rule that I think should change. Nobody seems to ever question the 15 kicking rule. Other rules like the stand rule have been introduced to allow play on and open the game up. A 20 meter kicking rule would do that even better. A 20 metre rule can restrict slow play and give teams more concerns when playing keepings off. Note: Eddie Betts would have been challenged kicking over 20 metres.!!! Joking !!

 

[CatToTheFuture]

3 Giants defenders (Buckley unlucky tbh), 1 Giants midfielder and 2 Giants forwards. Dismantled across all 3 lines. Our defenders and forwards, much like the Brisbane game, have escaped some heat relative to the low-performing midfield.

I also agree with putting the heat on the midfield. Feels like the keystone that made the arch fall

 

[CatToTheFuture]

I think Chris Scott has fallen into the trap of unintentionally allowing Smith and Holmes to become the game plan rather than the cream on the cake. Unfortunately this consigns too many others in the team to role players maintaining shape to make space for them rather than spreading responsibility and opportunity across the playing group. This game plan works against lesser teams, but the good teams like Brisbane and GWS have worked it out and they minimise the impact of Geelong’s midfield. Both Smith and Holmes are valuable line breakers but then they kick the ball predictably long down the line and usually to a contest rather than to advantage. This results in turnovers. They are not elite decision makers, their disposal is often ineffective, and they don’t run hard enough to help out defensively. So often the Cats have players laterally in space who don’t get rewarded with the ball and the team misses out on the opportunity to change the angles. It can all be fixed if Smith and Holmes roles are tinkered with to optimise their strengths, but more importantly to maximise the qualities of their team mates. If they start to use their running ability equal parts offensively and defensively, and distribute the ball by hand or lateral kicks to better decision makers like Martin, Miers, Humphries, Close, Dempsey, Mannagh, Guthrie then the team will become more cohesive and unpredictable pretty quickly

That's a pretty interesting observation. I felt we looked much better then them when we were running chain of handballs through traffic, even where that handball was sometimes a little ill directed.

Would be an ideal rope-a-dope to have everyone roll into finals well schooled on pressuring us into long down the line kicks with an outnumber at half back wing side only for us to just run through the corridor on give and go handpassing.

 

[Mr Meow]

I also agree with putting the heat on the midfield. Feels like the keystone that made the arch fall

You've completely missed my point.

The midfield has rightfully copped their whack already. Our forwards and defenders being well beaten in our losses seems to get conveniently swept under the carpet by comparison. We had more inside 50s than the Giants (60 entries!), yet their forward efficiency blew us out of the water.

4 Giants forwards/defenders received coaches votes, in a voting system that usually heavily favours midfielders.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

You've completely missed my point.

The midfield has rightfully copped their whack already. Our forwards and defenders being well beaten in our losses seems to get conveniently swept under the carpet by comparison. We had more inside 50s than the Giants (60 entries!), yet their forward efficiency blew us out of the water.

4 Giants forwards/defenders received coaches votes, in a voting system that usually heavily favours midfielders.

I'm not sure I missed it, you're saying our mids and forwards were poor and they've escaped copping a roast.

 

[PzBlinky]

There's a hell of a lot of sense here. I agree that both, but especially Smith, need to round out there game with more defensive accountability. Basically making sure when they're not breaking lines themselves, that they are making it tricky for the opposition to execute clean plays. But that also goes on the whole team. Sloppy ball use and poor defence of turnovers against GWS and Brisbane have been a team-wide responsibility where only a couple have been blameless.

Tactically I'm not sure Scott is misdirecting overall. However it's unclear why we aren't tagging at least one Lion/Giant prime mover. Maybe we are, but unsuccessfully? We are doing a terrible job of defending their ball movement - that's the most glaring issue. And 4 or 5 of our forwards/wingmen are being completely nullified.

Many things to work on.

Yeah, I can see this happening...

But what's really frustrating me is the ease of those turnovers on our HF line. Once they have the ball, they whisk it down the field effortlessly. Yes, a quick turn-over catches us out of position but the lack of contest on that HF line at times absolutely torches everyone downfield. Our forwards can apply great pressure, but it feels like this is a more I50 issue when it gets scrappy (or at stoppages) rather than when the ball's moving quickly and/or on our HF line.

Maybe I'm seeing it wrong, but the number of times we bomb long to HF, lose the contest, and get scored on the rebound - at least against the Lions and Giants (in both games) - is a big worry.

 

[Mr Meow]

I'm not sure I missed it, you're saying our mids and forwards were poor and they've escaped copping a roast.

I'm saying the mids have rightfully copped their whack. The defenders and forwards have escaped criticism by comparison. In frequency and magnitude. Miers, Neale, Stewart and J.Henry? They were good. The rest? Poor.

Your reply seemed to be like "yeah but what about the mids?" which didn't make a lot of sense to the point I raised.

 

[Frappe]

There will never be a replacement for putting your head over the ball and committing. If you're not willing to do it, you'll be beaten by the team that will.

We've been spoiled over the years with guys like Selwood, Danger, Bartel, Chapman, etc. It makes it hard to accept watching Dempsey shirking contests and floating around like a seagull for a loose chip.

I hope the guys inside the club are helping him with this aspect of his game. He needs to improve. It can't always be a flat-track day at the beach. Some games you really need to get your knuckles bloody.

For what it's worth, I really like Dempsey and I believe he'll be better.

It’s a different game now. The club won’t expect Dempsey to put his body on the line to the extent players did a few decades ago.

I know one year recently, a first year player laid 10 tackles and came off expecting a pat on the back but instead was directed to stay on the outside as that was his role.

Not excusing Dempsey but that is the way it’s structured these days.