List Mgmt. 2025 List Management discussion

[Thirsty_NeedBeer]

Happy Tuesday. This is the Tuesday we’ve been promised since last Tuesday, and the Tuesday before that.

 

[Saints4ever]

I don't think Ro is a very good forward.

Agree and neither is TDK

 

[stavro#4]

Its worth doing the excercise of doing a fully fit best 23 based on TDK coming.

Do that and tell me where Roma plays cause i cant find a spot for him (noting i reckon if we want a fwd/back up ruck Keeler is a better option especially if King and Sharman are playing and hes getting a second or even third tall defender) and the knock on Roma is hes not a good RUCKMAN and Keeler looks a much more natural forward (Keeler has a 3 goal game in 10 total games, Roma has 2 in 150 games.

If Roma is a 2s player, does he want to stay? If he does does it make sense for us to pay him $800k or whatever to be playing twos?

I stand by that if Roma wants to stay then absolutely retain him, if he wants out we should do that.

I thought Ross’s pre game channel 7 comments were pretty telling on Sunday.

“Rowan said I’m really happy to experiment with the two rucks”



The entire experiment word coming from Marshall doesn’t paint future state in a great place if that’s how he is seeing the run home with the likes of Heath in the team.

(He might love it, but you don’t get that vibe when you hear the coach say the player was happy to experiment)

 

[phantom13]

I thought Ross’s pre game channel 7 comments were pretty telling on Sunday.

“Rowan said I’m really happy to experiment with the two rucks”



The entire experiment word coming from Marshall doesn’t paint future state in a great place if that’s how he is seeing the run home with the likes of Heath in the team.

(He might love it, but you don’t get that vibe when you hear the coach say the player was happy to experiment)

Yeh i mean to me (putting aside Romas motivations and desires) if TDK comes and were fully fit then hes not playing ones. Hes not a forward, he can plonk in the goalsquare if Max isnt fit (and thats a good option for us) but fully fit, hes not in the side. I suspect Ross added the "really" into "really" happy too tbh.

To me, on merit right now, trading him out is a salary dump for a reasonable pick unless he WANTS to stay.

 

[stavro#4]

Yeh i mean to me (putting aside Romas motivations and desires) if TDK comes and were fully fit then hes not playing ones. Hes not a forward, he can plonk in the goalsquare if Max isnt fit (and thats a good option for us) but fully fit, hes not in the side. I suspect Ross added the "really" into "really" happy too tbh.

To me, on merit right now, trading him out is a salary dump for a reasonable pick unless he WANTS to stay.

I think the club sees utopia with Marshall playing Key forward and second ruck.

I think Marshall doesn’t want a bar of that and wants to be the main ruck.

That’s fine, but if he isn’t happy and his agent/himself are happy to assess options. That’s on them to ensure we get adequately compensated.

He won’t be playing VFL and he isn’t getting dumped when we have a plethora of cap room and the guy can play the role - of which we know first hand from 2020-21

 

[phantom13]

I think the club sees utopia with Marshall playing Key forward and second ruck.

I think Marshall doesn’t want a bar of that and wants to be the main ruck.

That’s fine, but if he isn’t happy and his agent/himself are happy to assess options. That’s on them to ensure we get adequately compensated.

He won’t be playing VFL and he isn’t getting dumped when we have a plethora of cap room and the guy can play the role - of which we know first hand from 2020-21

Yeh we CAN hold him and we dont NEED the salary dump but i think its poor business to keep him against his will when weve courted TDK and would be paying him more than double.

I guess adequate compo is the key. I cant see any club that would want or need him (Collingwood if they lose Cameron or Geelong) giving us a first and their seconds are probably too late. Might need to get creative. Something in the mid to late 20s feels fair to me, others seem to think more is needed.

 

[Joffaboy]

I thought Ross’s pre game channel 7 comments were pretty telling on Sunday.

“Rowan said I’m really happy to experiment with the two rucks”



The entire experiment word coming from Marshall doesn’t paint future state in a great place if that’s how he is seeing the run home with the likes of Heath in the team.

(He might love it, but you don’t get that vibe when you hear the coach say the player was happy to experiment)

When we got Paddy Ryder the talk was to give Roh a chop out, which worked very well with Paddy.
Can't see why two can't work. Certainly gave us a targetvforward last Sunday

 

[Joffaboy]

Yeh i mean to me (putting aside Romas motivations and desires) if TDK comes and were fully fit then hes not playing ones. Hes not a forward, he can plonk in the goalsquare if Max isnt fit (and thats a good option for us) but fully fit, hes not in the side. I suspect Ross added the "really" into "really" happy too tbh.

To me, on merit right now, trading him out is a salary dump for a reasonable pick unless he WANTS to stay.

When are we never not riddled with injuries?

 

[phantom13]

When we got Paddy Ryder the talk was to give Roh a chop out, which worked very well with Paddy.
Can't see why two can't work. Certainly gave us a targetvforward last Sunday

If King is playing then Roma (IMO) has no place, wed be too tall and slow with King and Roma and you wouldnt do that JUST so he can ruck 20% of the time when TDK needs a breather.

 

[phantom13]

When are we never not riddled with injuries?

Fair call but keeping an $800k a year first choice ruckman purely as backup is ridiculous. Heath can do that.

It really boils down to do you think Roma can play as a 70% forward and in the same forward line as King/Sharman etc.

I dont see it and Keeler would be better in the forward backup ruck role even if we did. Thats just an opinion though.

 

[stavro#4]

Yeh we CAN hold him and we dont NEED the salary dump but i think its poor business to keep him against his will when weve courted TDK and would be paying him more than double.

I guess adequate compo is the key. I cant see any club that would want or need him (Collingwood if they lose Cameron or Geelong) giving us a first and their seconds are probably too late. Might need to get creative. Something in the mid to late 20s feels fair to me, others seem to think more is needed.

I’ll take a late first and a late second.

I’ll take (as Mitch Cleary made clear and I assume is accurate. )That we want a top 12-15 pick.

I don’t want to hold him against his will. But I don’t think the club secretly went after TDK and Marshall was blindsided. So the fact he now is assessing his options doesn’t make me want to sell for cut price.

 

[stavro#4]

When we got Paddy Ryder the talk was to give Roh a chop out, which worked very well with Paddy.
Can't see why two can't work. Certainly gave us a targetvforward last Sunday

I agree.

But I’m against trying this out for 12 months and Rowan wanting to piss off when we are down on leverage.

Do it this off season. Get maximum value and carry on building

 

[CaptainRisky]

Not sure where all this Dodson has only played one good game has come from , he had 19 disposals and 4 goals only 2 games ago and played almost all the game as a forward so I'm guessing a lot on here have never seen him play.
Further more you cant even compare Moose and Dodson , Dodson is an athlete who moves more like a 6 footer , Max unfortunately moves more like a giraffe.

 

[phantom13]

I’ll take a late first and a late second.

I’ll take (as Mitch Cleary made clear and I assume is accurate. )That we want a top 12-15 pick.

I don’t want to hold him against his will. But I don’t think the club secretly went after TDK and Marshall was blindsided. So the fact he now is assessing his options doesn’t make me want to sell for cut price.

Fair, it seems im undervaluing his trade value, i cant imagine a world where anyones first is gonna get offered for him and i would accept a mid range second but thats really personal opinion.

 

[Highlander35]

Like I don't mean this in a bad way, but aren't the Swans reserves even more tragic than Sandy are?

Dodson looks the goods but need that body of work before I'd be confident throwing him into the regular AFL ruckman bucket.

 

[MordySaint]

If King is playing then Roma (IMO) has no place, wed be too tall and slow with King and Roma and you wouldnt do that JUST so he can ruck 20% of the time when TDK needs a breather.

Thats a big IF... we shouldn't be making any list decisions on whether King will be playing or not.

With the position of our salary cap, there's no need to move Roma on somewhere else.

If we are challenging for finals in the next two years (which we should be), we need him.

 

[billings2paddy]

Saints Predicted to finish 13th according to AFL.com

After FA and academy picks we could slide as far as Pick 12

Potential AFL draft order
Pick 1 Eagles
Pick 2 Eagles FA Allen
Pick 3 Richmond
Pick 4 Richmond (north)
Pick 5 Essendon
Pick 6 Essendon trade FA draper
Pick 7 Hawthorn
Pick 8 Saints

 

[beside the seaside]

Saints Predicted to finish 13th according to AFL.com

After FA and academy picks we could slide as far as Pick 12

Potential AFL draft order
Pick 1 Eagles
Pick 2 Eagles FA Allen
Pick 3 Richmond
Pick 4 Richmond (north)
Pick 5 Essendon
Pick 6 Essendon trade FA draper
Pick 7 Hawthorn
Pick 8 Saints

You can throw in another pick before us for TDK compensation

 

[SaintsofSteel]

Its worth doing the excercise of doing a fully fit best 23 based on TDK coming.

Do that and tell me where Roma plays cause i cant find a spot for him (noting i reckon if we want a fwd/back up ruck Keeler is a better option especially if King and Sharman are playing and hes getting a second or even third tall defender) and the knock on Roma is hes not a good RUCKMAN and Keeler looks a much more natural forward (Keeler has a 3 goal game in 10 total games, Roma has 2 in 150 games.

If Roma is a 2s player, does he want to stay? If he does does it make sense for us to pay him $800k or whatever to be playing twos?

I stand by that if Roma wants to stay then absolutely retain him, if he wants out we should do that.

Fair enough but if King is injured again - who plays the role Keeler is not ready? I can understand the club wanting to cash in on Roma's trade value, but I have no faith in Max King playing long term. If we were to use the trade from Roma on bringing in a key forward, that would make plenty of sense.

Having said that clubs arent stupid, they would be watching Roma play in recent weeks and getting dominated by the better rucks in the comp. Who is going to hand over an earlier pick for a soon to be 30yo struggling ruckman? I think this board is prone to over rating our players and getting starry eyed thinking other clubs are going to hand over a good pick for a player we are trying to offload.

 

[billings2paddy]

You can throw in another pick before us for TDK compensation

Welcome to the saints Jevan Phillipou

 

[SaintsofSteel]

I don't think Ro is a very good forward.

The may be the case but who else do we have when King is not playing?

 

[billings2paddy]

The may be the case but who else do we have when King is not playing?

Archie Ludowyke/ Mitchell Marsh

 

[phantom13]

Thats a big IF... we shouldn't be making any list decisions on whether King will be playing or not.

With the position of our salary cap, there's no need to move Roma on somewhere else.

If we are challenging for finals in the next two years (which we should be), we need him.

Yeh, ive sort of made that point. If youre happy to retain Roma at $800k playing twos, then sure, its an option, i dont like it at all.

Fair enough but if King is injured again - who plays the role Keeler is not ready? I can understand the club wanting to cash in on Roma's trade value, but I have no faith in Max King playing long term. If we were to use the trade from Roma on bringing in a key forward, that would make plenty of sense.

Having said that clubs arent stupid, they would be watching Roma play in recent weeks and getting dominated by the better rucks in the comp. Who is going to hand over an earlier pick for a soon to be 30yo struggling ruckman? I think this board is prone to over rating our players and getting starry eyed thinking other clubs are going to hand over a good pick for a player we are trying to offload.

Well we saw on the weekend Heath can stand in the square. Again, if the argument is keep Roma as a backup, thats an option, not an option id go with (thats also $2.5m on 2 ruckmen... which is ****ing insane).

 

[phantom13]

The may be the case but who else do we have when King is not playing?

Its purely personal perspective but $800k for a "what if" is not smart business, especially if he wants out and we can get reasonable return for him.

Im not saying youre wrong cause i dont think its a right/wrong scenario, its just personal opinion. If he stays im not gonna be mad about it

 

[BrutThough]

Saints Predicted to finish 13th according to AFL.com

After FA and academy picks we could slide as far as Pick 12

Potential AFL draft order
Pick 1 Eagles
Pick 2 Eagles FA Allen
Pick 3 Richmond
Pick 4 Richmond (north)
Pick 5 Essendon
Pick 6 Essendon trade FA draper
Pick 7 Hawthorn
Pick 8 Saints

No chance in hell Draper triggers a top 10 compensation pick.

An average ruck currently recovering from an achilles. Not even the AFL is that corrupt.