List Mgmt. 2025 List Management discussion

[phantom13]

“Achieving absolutely nothing”

List builds aren’t these linear progressions from shit to winning flags.

When he came in we knew the state of play with the list (second oldest) and salary cap.

We are the third youngest now and we should classify ourselves as Richie rich, rich when it comes to cap space.

They are both big ticks.

What we do this off season is when the magnifying glass should be applied as we start to use our cap space.

Sure. Gotta have some ****ing high tint rose colored glasses to call a clear out of dead space and **** all of the good kids resigned a win but have at it.

 

[westernsainter]

Not as grim as your posting the last 6 months.

Pou, Tauru, Wilson, Garcia, even someone like Hastie has the upside to push for AA.
Yet to see Dodson but has all the attributes.

This extremely negative mindset is no way to live.

This chat around Wilson, Garcia and Hastie being potential AA picks is delusional. I pray I'm wrong but what have we seen yet that shows they will get anywhere near that level? There are about five blokes from Wilsons draft class that would already be way ahead of him if you were picking an AA midfield from that draft alone!

Go back to 2016 and see if we weren't saying the exact same things about Billings, Dunstan, Gresham and McCartin. I'll believe we are turning a corner when I see it, but right now we are absolutely nowhere.

 

[phantom13]

All makes sense but I just don't understand what it means to say "actually nah this is ****ing shit". Like do they quit supporting the club or microwave their membership or something?

But also - list builds take as long as they take. You try to draft good players and have a foundation for a strong team. If drafting works out (because players get good) then you can start topping up to fill gaps. If they don't work out then obviously you have to keep drafting.

The strategy isn't actually rocket science, and there aren't really any short cuts. You can try to get smart by poaching players from other clubs to accelerate the build but that's high risk.

I mean by any standard we’ve failed doing exactly what we’re trying again now at least twice if not three times in the last 15 years.

I’m not full blown this is shit and we may as well pack it in but I understand that viewpoint way more than I understand the everything is awesome crew.

It always kind of staggers me that we have any optimistic supporters. I do admire the resilience.

Again, I actually think this is the right strategy and the right people I just think winning flags is incredibly incredibly hard to do and anything we think we’ve got others equally have.

Time will tell I suppose

 

[phantom13]

This chat around Wilson, Garcia and Hastie being potential AA picks is delusional. I pray I'm wrong but what have we seen yet that shows they will get anywhere near that level? There are about five blokes from Wilsons draft class that would already be way ahead of him if you were picking an AA midfield from that draft alone!

Go back to 2016 and see if we weren't saying the exact same things about Billings, Dunstan, Gresham and McCartin. I'll believe we are turning a corner when I see it, but right now we are absolutely nowhere.

I reckon people underestimate how difficult it is to be an AA let alone a multiple AA.

Garcia actually reminds me a bit of Libba who has drumroll 0 all Australians. If he winds up half the player Libba is I’d be thrilled and he STILL won’t be an AA

 

[akaifu]

 

[heynow85]

In Zak Jones

3

Zak Jones

Age

30

Ht

182cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.8

4star

K

10.0

4star

HB

7.8

5star

M

3.4

3star

T

3.0

5star

CL

1.7

4star

D

19.1

4star

K

10.6

4star

HB

8.6

4star

M

3.4

3star

T

3.1

4star

CL

4.9

5star

D

7.0

2star

K

2.8

1star

HB

4.2

4star

M

1.0

1star

T

1.6

4star

CL

1.0

3star

and Ryan Byrnes

13

Ryan Byrnes

Age

24

Ht

181cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

D/M

Career

Season

Last 5

D

5.0

1star

K

2.0

1star

HB

3.0

3star

M

0.0

1star

T

2.0

4star

MG

1.0

1star

D

5.0

1star

K

2.0

1star

HB

3.0

2star

M

0.0

1star

T

2.0

3star

MG

1.0

1star

D

5.0

1star

K

2.0

1star

HB

3.0

3star

M

0.0

1star

T

2.0

4star

MG

1.0

1star

 

[Dard Ball Get]

This chat around Wilson, Garcia and Hastie being potential AA picks is delusional. I pray I'm wrong but what have we seen yet that shows they will get anywhere near that level? There are about five blokes from Wilsons draft class that would already be way ahead of him if you were picking an AA midfield from that draft alone!

Go back to 2016 and see if we weren't saying the exact same things about Billings, Dunstan, Gresham and McCartin. I'll believe we are turning a corner when I see it, but right now we are absolutely nowhere.

I don’t care what was being said in 2016, 2006 or 1996. Players come from the clouds, players don’t live up to expectations, players have one off exceptional years.

Wilson (and the other two) is in his second year mate, and displayed elite traits in his first, delusional indeed.

How did Sinclair look in his second year? How has he gone since?

If you choose to live in this sad headspace then go for your life.

 

[Saints4ever]

In Zak Jones and Ryan Byrnes

Squads at the moment let’s save our melts to tomorrow.

 

[phantom13]

In Zak Jones and Ryan Byrnes

If they actually play… **** me dead

 

[akaifu]

In Zak Jones and Ryan Byrnes

It's probably Wilson in and those two emergency

 

[bergholt]

I mean by any standard we’ve failed doing exactly what we’re trying again now at least twice if not three times in the last 15 years.

100% agree, but that's how this works. I'm not optimistic or pessimistic, but it is what it is. Zero sum game (as all sporting comps are) so if other clubs succeed big then it must mean we fail. That doesn't mean we fail forever and personally if I'm going to bother following the sport then I'll look for reasons to be cheerful.

 

[SainterinSydney]

It's probably Wilson in and those two emergency

My dad's fav whipping boy--Ronald Byrnes

 

[Linton Street Saint]

 

[SG34]

Conversely our last two losses were Freo and Sydney and we were unlucky.

Good point! Caught me in the doom spin!

 

[jumperfan]

Do they specify any particular reasons?

 

[Linton Street Saint]

Do they specify any particular reasons?

"One agent’s survey response was that the most difficult part of negotiating with teams across the league was their respective list management philosophies."

"Other responses about the difficulties of negotiations included “clubs becoming too emotional”, “lack of communication and transparency” and “attempts for clubs to deal directly with a player” as sticking points with clubs."

 

[Speck]

Max King

King, Caminiti, Sharman, Owens, Keeler is on paper a pretty good set of attacking young talls

Just unfortunate we didn't get to see it this year with King injured and Doug/Cordy both injured meaning Caminiti has to play back

King obviously, but his injuries over past couple of years haven't been great, and we really need a better back up plan than what we've seen this year.

Caminiti is now a full back. Sharman and Owens are medium forwards. Keeler is tall but he plays more like a medium forward and doesn't have much contest work to his game. Heath tries but I'm not convinced he'll be anything more than that long term.

Still think there is a big hole there. There's got to be someone 21-25 who is a step up from Heath and Keeler.

 

[BrutThough]

This chat around Wilson, Garcia and Hastie being potential AA picks is delusional. I pray I'm wrong but what have we seen yet that shows they will get anywhere near that level? There are about five blokes from Wilsons draft class that would already be way ahead of him if you were picking an AA midfield from that draft alone!

Go back to 2016 and see if we weren't saying the exact same things about Billings, Dunstan, Gresham and McCartin. I'll believe we are turning a corner when I see it, but right now we are absolutely nowhere.

So you were certain Steele and Sinclair would reach AA status after their 2nd years?

 

[akaifu]

King obviously, but his injuries over past couple of years haven't been great, and we really need a better back up plan than what we've seen this year.

Caminiti is now a full back. Sharman and Owens are medium forwards. Keeler is tall but he plays more like a medium forward and doesn't have much contest work to his game. Heath tries but I'm not convinced he'll be anything more than that long term.

Still think there is a big hole there. There's got to be someone 21-25 who is a step up from Heath and Keeler.

Nah I wouldn't say Caminiti is for certain a full back from here. My money is on Ross putting him forward once we have Aleer + Tauru + Wilkie in defence and seeing how his forward craft has developed after playing on legit AFL forwards

Assuming King is injured, having Caminiti, Sharman, Owens, Keeler is still a fine quartet

In saying that, I wouldn't mind drafting Archie Ludowyke (key forward) at this year's draft

 

[cartel]

Honestly believe many think it is St Kildas destiny to be the whipping boy and perpetual feeder club. Any semblance of standing up for oneself ala Bassett is met with scorn as it's not accepting this conception.

 

[billings2paddy]

King obviously, but his injuries over past couple of years haven't been great, and we really need a better back up plan than what we've seen this year.

Caminiti is now a full back. Sharman and Owens are medium forwards. Keeler is tall but he plays more like a medium forward and doesn't have much contest work to his game. Heath tries but I'm not convinced he'll be anything more than that long term.

Still think there is a big hole there. There's got to be someone 21-25 who is a step up from Heath

There is a ruck in the VFL for Sandy who got 29 kicked 3 and had 31 hitouts against ladhams and still can't get in the team
But jones and Byrnes can

 

[Parkysp]

This chat around Wilson, Garcia and Hastie being potential AA picks is delusional. I pray I'm wrong but what have we seen yet that shows they will get anywhere near that level? There are about five blokes from Wilsons draft class that would already be way ahead of him if you were picking an AA midfield from that draft alone!

Go back to 2016 and see if we weren't saying the exact same things about Billings, Dunstan, Gresham and McCartin. I'll believe we are turning a corner when I see it, but right now we are absolutely nowhere.

You are 100% right. We've been at this cross road a few times over the past 15 years. We have nothing but time to know how the pages of our history turn out this time. I'm not sure though that we are nowhere.

I look at us against Collingwood. A gazillion fans that leads to the AFL handing every them advantage a club could want. Do they attract a better level of board. Yup. There is a gazillion of them so a lot wider gene pool.

We have the best setup since probably the 60's. Has it taken a long time to get to that. Yup. Are we all impatient. Yup. Everyone in the media has the Freo and Dogs w*nk bank over their "talent" but they've not delivered. It ain't easy.

Long way of saying, I hope the ride doesn't keep making you nauseous as there are a lot of twists and turns still ahead.

 

[BrutThough]

There is a ruck in the VFL for Sandy who got 29 kicked 3 and had 31 hitouts against ladhams and still can't get in the team
But jones and Byrnes can

Do you really think Dodson would be an appropriate replacement for Butler or Hugo (given he's under a cloud)?

 

[jwikked]

Surveys like that are worthless. You’ve gotta pick one team, these guys probably picked the team they’ve dealt with most recently.

Without quotes and reasoning, it’s not worth paying attention to.

 

[jwikked]

Saints offer to TDK is $1.8mil per season, not $1.7 lol

That should get it done