Autopsy 2025 Round 19 Tight game but Blues wanted it Moir

[Bluebag13]

Worst game I have been to all season. Both sides were shocking. It wasn’t even VFL level standard

To watch live last night how they played as opposed to Lions & Pies of last two weeks was stark. Completely different level

I said in preview we should win because we match up well and the trends for both are poor. I got heavily criticised for these comments

After game if felt like a morgue. No thrill at all in crowd about win

Nice to see kids play some good footy (we have some real exciting talent to work with) but doing it under little pressure doesn’t excite me. They were given so much space they weren’t last few weeks. We always look okay under no pressure

It’s when pressure comes (start of third qtr) is when we really struggle

Take the win but reality of last few weeks can’t be forgotten. Hawks, Freo, Suns now will tell us real picture

We still need massive change to be a serious side

Re Demons, Goodwin needs to go. He has a flag but players are cooked and need refresh. They are in a worse spot than us IMO

Mate give us a day of enjoying it haha
All fair points but geewhiz.

Also I’m curious to know where you were sitting level 1 members was very much not a morgue everyone very happy and getting up and about after the game but also during it.

 

[Jimmyonesix]

Cooper lord going to be great value to CFC future-- will really protect the future midfield runners without wanting to be the man..
Lemmey must be close now

 

[btdg]

We want a premiership and we're all broken that list list rebuild that began with Cripps, Curnow, Mckay, Weitering 10-12 years ago has amounted to nothing. If this was bolton era and some young kids just shone at the level to get us a win everyone would be buzzing but the reality is right now we all know massive change has to come to have even a remote chance of pinching a flag while these guys remain in their prime.

I am as emotionally disconnected as I have ever been, enjoyed the win but wasn't getting upset if we lost. We need change at the football club so the results for this year don't matter to me, enjoyment came mainly due to watching the fight the VFL side has been showing start to rub off on the senior players who are all mentally cooked and broken.

I think you have to start to enjoy the journey and stop thinking about the destination, to be honest.

Sure, it would be nice to win a premiership, but every year there are 17 teams that don't. Ultimately footy is entertainment, and cheering the team on to success, being part of something (win, lose or draw) is what makes it special. 'Massive change has to come to have a chance of pinching a flag' - nah, sorry, that's not it. You'll be unhappy if we don't make 'massive change', and you'll be unhappy if we do blow it all up and set ourselves back to 2015 again.

To say that 'list rebuild' has amounted to nothing is just wrong. It's given us our only preliminary final in 25 years. It's given us our best 3 years stretch in two decades.

It's also not finished. This is a transition year - we were NEVER going to be winning the flag this year after moving on so many veterans (Kennedy, Owies, Martin, Marchbank, Carroll, etc) and not bringing in replacements.

Instead, take the wins when they come.

• The senior players are 'mentally cooked and broken'? Well, last night, they looked sharp again - Cripps' best game all year, Curnow back and kicking the matchwinner. So... celebrate that?
• 'some young kids just shone at the level to get us a win...' - well, again, that happened last night. Moir had a breakout game, Carroll and O'Farrell were great. I don't see why you would be buzzing any less about that in 2025 than in 2017?

We're 12th. That's.... not actually that bad. In our absolute best days, back when Sticks and SOS and Braddles were dominating the league, we had some transition years as well, and it was a mark of pride for the club that we never dropped below 11th (we'd never won a wooden spoon, and right up until 2001 never fell below 11th). Well, 11th is in play if we can get a win against Port or Gold Coast in Melbourne...

There is a LOT to play for still imo. If we can have a year like this, transition in so many young guys AND reset that standard that we don't drop below 11th, that would be massive for the club, and if getting back to THAT standard was the outcome of the list rebuild, I'd be bloody happy.

About the crowd - my daughter and I are two of probably around 5-10,000 who stayed home because of the prospect of catching a bus home in the rain due to the train derailment at Clifton Hill. That took out two entire train lines of potential Blues fans.

Oh, and perhaps 20 or so Demons fans who aren’t at the snow.

Fair. It was also very cold, and the end of school holidays.

I meant more the atmosphere at the ground though, not just the nubmer of people.

As an MCC member who has been to a few neutral games, I can tell you that our crowd is not only bad in terms of positive support compared to others, but I think it has had a noticeable negative impact on some. Like, the crowd tensing and reacting to mistakes (not to good things) is reinforcing them.

Collingwood's crowd are SO far ahead right now, and a huge factor in why they are successful. To beat Collingwood you have to beat both the players on the field and the atmosphere that hits you like a wave when you are 5 goals ahead and Collingwood kick the first goal of the last quarter...

 

[WalshYouLegend]

I don't want to be the grim reaper.

But I do have to wonder if some players found a bit of form last night because the season is truely over and the pressure is off.

So much seems to be in between the ears.

 

[Accidental genius]

How did Cowan all of a sudden improve so much?

He looks way more powerful, quick and hard at tge ball/player.

He also makes good decisions and appears to be trying to keep the game moving at a fast pace.

It’s bloody brilliant to see and we are seeing some of the youngsters improve as well.

 

[Sharks On A Plane]

Wow. Great win - genuinely surprised me. I think if you went back to 6pm and said Kosi Pickett was going to have 19 kicks and 5 goals I would have assumed a big loss but we rallied multiple times and came through.

Also just so nice to see young guys making progress (Carroll, Cowan, O'Farrell, Lord) but also having a breakout game (Moir).

There was definitely more intent than a week ago - tackling, pressure, and ball movement all pretty good. Maybe just a bit of needed rest for some of the team with the extra couple of days. Might be Cripps' first Brownlow votes for the year. Curnow kicked his first goal in a month and then his first after quarter time since mid May. IT helps when your stars actually show up (injury aside).

Still some downsides to consider:

- we played 7 small forwards (Young, White, Durdin, Motlop, Fogarty, Williams, Evans) and they combined for two goals in a win.

- Saad makes our backline look a whole lot more stable, even alongside a very inexperienced crew, but is absolutely no longer the guy to cover Pickett and other midfielders who push forward. He played a very good game outside of the 3-4 occasions where he just got torched for a goal.

- The crowd and atmosphere was again very ordinary. I just don't know what supporters want. Are people actually happier being miserable? If it isn't clear to everyone, we're not a very good squad/list this year. We rallied and won a big game, and yet it was lukewarm at best. May knocked a bloke into next week, and the boos for him were half-hearted. Charlie kicked a match-winning goal from 55 and there was a smattering of applause... I don't know how the club fixes this, maybe we have to look at setting up a soccer-style 'Active Support' group or something, because the atmosphere compared to any other MCG tenant right now (Essendon included) is putrid, and it HAS to be something that both current and prospective players see...

This crusade against the Carlton crowd that you're on is honestly one of the dumbest things I've ever read.

Our supporters have been burnt time and time again by this club. Until the on field performance actually reaches an acceptable standard, why would they blindly cheer-lead the putrid shitshow that has been on display all year?

 

[passmark]

How did Cowan all of a sudden improve so much?

He looks way more powerful, quick and hard at tge ball/player.

He also makes good decisions and appears to be trying to keep the game moving at a fast pace.

It’s bloody brilliant to see and we are seeing some of the youngsters improve as well.

That’s how he played before being drafted.

In his case Getting selected a lot also helped I think . Doesn’t always work to play so many game season 1 but it’s helped him.

His size and power is all on him I reckon. I have no knowledge of his training but I wouldn’t be surprised if he was a heavy trainer in the gym.

They could do worse than putting him in the leadership group next season.

 

[Blue since 72]

Moir looks toned in the body, moved well. Tank might be good enough
Carroll probably his best game
HOF
Young popped up with a couple of things
White hopeful he can progress, just like the way he goes about it
Williams with stints in the middle looked good
Charlie, outside of the goals kicked the most I’ve seen him involved in a game ever
Cow
Lord

Happy to note most of the names above are the future

Horrible hit for Evans, hope he’s not too banged up
Mots worked his arse off, i saw pace and endeavour (the pace i hadn’t seen much of) but probably didn’t have
The overall impact on the game of others.

As usual the first quarter was quite enjoyable and thereafter more of a grind.

As someone else noted i’ve decided to just try and enjoy the journey and in particular focus on the younger guys coming through rather than worry about the destination, at least for the short term.

 

[Soapy V]

I think you have to start to enjoy the journey and stop thinking about the destination, to be honest.

Everyone has a right to their own happiness, their beliefs and how they view things. Never judge or assume or tell them how they should think

It astounds me how so many judge someone based on an internet site but I suppose that is the modern world I still don't understand

 

[btdg]

This crusade against the Carlton crowd that you're on is honestly one of the dumbest things I've ever read.

Our supporters have been burnt time and time again by this club. Until the on field performance actually reaches an acceptable standard, why would they blindly cheer-lead the putrid shitshow that has been on display all year?

Was last night not an acceptable standard?

 

[BlueBlood15]

I think you have to start to enjoy the journey and stop thinking about the destination, to be honest.

Sure, it would be nice to win a premiership, but every year there are 17 teams that don't. Ultimately footy is entertainment, and cheering the team on to success, being part of something (win, lose or draw) is what makes it special. 'Massive change has to come to have a chance of pinching a flag' - nah, sorry, that's not it. You'll be unhappy if we don't make 'massive change', and you'll be unhappy if we do blow it all up and set ourselves back to 2015 again.

To say that 'list rebuild' has amounted to nothing is just wrong. It's given us our only preliminary final in 25 years. It's given us our best 3 years stretch in two decades.

It's also not finished. This is a transition year - we were NEVER going to be winning the flag this year after moving on so many veterans (Kennedy, Owies, Martin, Marchbank, Carroll, etc) and not bringing in replacements.

Instead, take the wins when they come.

• The senior players are 'mentally cooked and broken'? Well, last night, they looked sharp again - Cripps' best game all year, Curnow back and kicking the matchwinner. So... celebrate that?
• 'some young kids just shone at the level to get us a win...' - well, again, that happened last night. Moir had a breakout game, Carroll and O'Farrell were great. I don't see why you would be buzzing any less about that in 2025 than in 2017?

We're 12th. That's.... not actually that bad. In our absolute best days, back when Sticks and SOS and Braddles were dominating the league, we had some transition years as well, and it was a mark of pride for the club that we never dropped below 11th (we'd never won a wooden spoon, and right up until 2001 never fell below 11th). Well, 11th is in play if we can get a win against Port or Gold Coast in Melbourne...

There is a LOT to play for still imo. If we can have a year like this, transition in so many young guys AND reset that standard that we don't drop below 11th, that would be massive for the club, and if getting back to THAT standard was the outcome of the list rebuild, I'd be bloody happy.



Fair. It was also very cold, and the end of school holidays.

I meant more the atmosphere at the ground though, not just the nubmer of people.

As an MCC member who has been to a few neutral games, I can tell you that our crowd is not only bad in terms of positive support compared to others, but I think it has had a noticeable negative impact on some. Like, the crowd tensing and reacting to mistakes (not to good things) is reinforcing them.

Collingwood's crowd are SO far ahead right now, and a huge factor in why they are successful. To beat Collingwood you have to beat both the players on the field and the atmosphere that hits you like a wave when you are 5 goals ahead and Collingwood kick the first goal of the last quarter...

Carlton’s crowd would be as good as Collingwood’s by way of an advantage if the team played like Collingwood’s over a prolonged period of time.

Supporters feed off what is happening on the ground. Look at our crowds at the back end of 2023. A massive advantage like Collingwood. Problem is we kept getting fed crap from the team so of course the crowd is going to be subdued, nervous and apprehensive.

You’re missing the key reason why the Collingwood crowd is vocal and an advantage - their team’s performance over a long period.

 

[Sharks On A Plane]

Was last night not an acceptable standard?

A meaningless game against a shit team? Why are you completely ignoring the broader context? This team was on the third line of premiership betting at the start of the season.

 

[Gethelred]

People will only ever focus on decisions in the last two minutes of a close game and pretend the 120 minutes before that didn't happen.

But that's the thing, though; we received the rub of the green all match. There was a period at the beginning of the final term where we couldn't get our hands on it and the umps blunted every single attempt they made at going forward.

The kind of thing they did for us yesterday is what - if I were the type to wear a tinfoil hat - would lead me to think that the AFL have had enough of belting us from pillar to post, and need us fans to recommit and buy back into the comp. It's why the messaging by the media - the comms, via the much more positive, 'Look what they have, the young talent coming through'; Nathan Buckley having done some research on Moir, the positive coverage of Carroll and Hollands - has moved from a deficit based assessment - this is what they're not doing, why they're so far off the pace - to a capabilitites based assessment - this is what they can do, where their strengths are.

The umps had our backs last night, to an extreme degree. A single free kick and/or deliberate call resulting in a goal or two to them doesn't change the fact that they kept us in it when Melbourne were going at us.

 

[Soapy V]

Was last night not an acceptable standard?

Not to me. Not even close

 

[Skull Face]

I think you have to start to enjoy the journey and stop thinking about the destination, to be honest.

Sure, it would be nice to win a premiership, but every year there are 17 teams that don't. Ultimately footy is entertainment, and cheering the team on to success, being part of something (win, lose or draw) is what makes it special. 'Massive change has to come to have a chance of pinching a flag' - nah, sorry, that's not it. You'll be unhappy if we don't make 'massive change', and you'll be unhappy if we do blow it all up and set ourselves back to 2015 again.

To say that 'list rebuild' has amounted to nothing is just wrong. It's given us our only preliminary final in 25 years. It's given us our best 3 years stretch in two decades.

It's also not finished. This is a transition year - we were NEVER going to be winning the flag this year after moving on so many veterans (Kennedy, Owies, Martin, Marchbank, Carroll, etc) and not bringing in replacements.

Instead, take the wins when they come.

• The senior players are 'mentally cooked and broken'? Well, last night, they looked sharp again - Cripps' best game all year, Curnow back and kicking the matchwinner. So... celebrate that?
• 'some young kids just shone at the level to get us a win...' - well, again, that happened last night. Moir had a breakout game, Carroll and O'Farrell were great. I don't see why you would be buzzing any less about that in 2025 than in 2017?

We're 12th. That's.... not actually that bad. In our absolute best days, back when Sticks and SOS and Braddles were dominating the league, we had some transition years as well, and it was a mark of pride for the club that we never dropped below 11th (we'd never won a wooden spoon, and right up until 2001 never fell below 11th). Well, 11th is in play if we can get a win against Port or Gold Coast in Melbourne...

There is a LOT to play for still imo. If we can have a year like this, transition in so many young guys AND reset that standard that we don't drop below 11th, that would be massive for the club, and if getting back to THAT standard was the outcome of the list rebuild, I'd be bloody happy.



Fair. It was also very cold, and the end of school holidays.

I meant more the atmosphere at the ground though, not just the nubmer of people.

As an MCC member who has been to a few neutral games, I can tell you that our crowd is not only bad in terms of positive support compared to others, but I think it has had a noticeable negative impact on some. Like, the crowd tensing and reacting to mistakes (not to good things) is reinforcing them.

Collingwood's crowd are SO far ahead right now, and a huge factor in why they are successful. To beat Collingwood you have to beat both the players on the field and the atmosphere that hits you like a wave when you are 5 goals ahead and Collingwood kick the first goal of the last quarter...

I'll take 9 spoons and 1 flag over 10 prelims, I watch sports for the ultimate high to see athletes reach that pinaccle of success. Greatest emotional high was watching cadel evans win the tour de france after years and years of falling just short of the mark, a prelim is great but its not the ultimate high.

Don't get me wrong though last night was enjoyable and I liked a lot of what I saw from the younger players I was just trying to explain to you why the crowd isn't as hyped as you would like about it.

 

[CoachB]

But that's the thing, though; we received the rub of the green all match. There was a period at the beginning of the final term where we couldn't get our hands on it and the umps blunted every single attempt they made at going forward.

The kind of thing they did for us yesterday is what - if I were the type to wear a tinfoil hat - would lead me to think that the AFL have had enough of belting us from pillar to post, and need us fans to recommit and buy back into the comp. It's why the messaging by the media - the comms, via the much more positive, 'Look what they have, the young talent coming through'; Nathan Buckley having done some research on Moir, the positive coverage of Carroll and Hollands - has moved from a deficit based assessment - this is what they're not doing, why they're so far off the pace - to a capabilitites based assessment - this is what they can do, where their strengths are.

The umps had our backs last night, to an extreme degree. A single free kick and/or deliberate call resulting in a goal or two to them doesn't change the fact that they kept us in it when Melbourne were going at us.

Clangers had a bigger impact than free kicks, Melbourne butchered the ball more than we did.

Carlton	Statistic	Melbourne
204	Kicks	235
101	Handballs	150
305	Disposals	385
2.02	Kick to Handball Ratio	1.57
77	Marks	104
48	Tackles	44
26	Hitouts	38
29	Frees For	21
21	Frees Against	29
12	Goals Kicked	10
8	Goal Assists	7
4	Behinds Kicked	6
2	Rushed Behinds	4
18	Scoring Shots	20
66.7%	Conversion	50.0%
25.42	Disposals Per Goal	38.50
16.94	Disps Per Scoring Shot	19.25
37	Clearances	34
59	Clangers	78
47	Rebound 50s	38
50	Inside 50s	58
2.78	In50s Per Scoring Shot	2.90
4.17	Inside 50s Per Goal	5.80
32.0%	% In50s Score	27.6%
24.0%	% In50s Goal	17.2%

 

[slashin_velvet]

About the crowd - my daughter and I are two of probably around 5-10,000 who stayed home because of the prospect of catching a bus home in the rain due to the train derailment at Clifton Hill. That took out two entire train lines of potential Blues fans.

Oh, and perhaps 20 or so Demons fans who aren’t at the snow.

There were also bus replacements from Cheltenham and Westall which may have discouraged large sections of the south east corridor from bothering

 

[Gethelred]

Clangers had a bigger impact than free kicks, Melbourne butchered the ball more than we did.

Carlton	Statistic	Melbourne
204	Kicks	235
101	Handballs	150
305	Disposals	385
2.02	Kick to Handball Ratio	1.57
77	Marks	104
48	Tackles	44
26	Hitouts	38
29	Frees For	21
21	Frees Against	29
12	Goals Kicked	10
8	Goal Assists	7
4	Behinds Kicked	6
2	Rushed Behinds	4
18	Scoring Shots	20
66.7%	Conversion	50.0%
25.42	Disposals Per Goal	38.50
16.94	Disps Per Scoring Shot	19.25
37	Clearances	34
59	Clangers	78
47	Rebound 50s	38
50	Inside 50s	58
2.78	In50s Per Scoring Shot	2.90
4.17	Inside 50s Per Goal	5.80
32.0%	% In50s Score	27.6%
24.0%	% In50s Goal	17.2%

Free kicks are included in the clanger count, CoachB. That the clanger differential is so high is in part due to the free kick differential.

 

[slashin_velvet]

Free kicks are included in the clanger count, CoachB. That the clanger differential is so high is in part due to the free kick differential.

Quite a few out of bounds on the full in those numbers too.

 

[Zlatan]

Interesting isn’t it. Everyone see it differently. I get no excitement out of last night. It was a shocking game we barely won.

I am all about success and Flags. That’s it for me. Last night showed me again how far we are aware from it. So many sitting with us (all Carlton members, former players etc) feel the same. Yeh we won, but to many of us that have grown up in an era of success it means little

Last night was just a nothing result for me

All I would be taking from last night (and the rest of the season) is which kids can we realistically start in the 22 in 2026. And it would be great if Carroll, Moir and HOF are 3 names we could add to that list.

Add Jagga + whoever may be ready at pick 8-10 from TDK’s compo and that’s ~25% of a new look first team that has an all new, capable and modern coaching team at the helm.

But I agree with your overall point: there is no “celebrating” beating Melb in a failure of a season.

 

[carlton_99]

Sounds like Cerra played with the plague last night

 

[passmark]

I'll take 9 spoons and 1 flag over 10 prelims, I watch sports for the ultimate high to see athletes reach that pinaccle of success.

That’s not how it works though.

10 prelims would be the sign of a successful well run club.

9 spoons and a flag and you could be out of business, merged or relocated.

9 years of not enjoying anything?

Yeah, nah

 

[Beyond Blue]

Well done to Voss and coaches for having the mind to back Carroll and Young in after their horror games against Brisbane. I certainly wanted both out. It wasn’t just through necessity either as Boyd or Wilson could easily have come in for Carroll, and Young could have been overlooked for a number of different players.

It is really disappointing to read the negativity from some in here describing the performance as a “meaningless win” too. Two youngster got their first wins in the navy blue last night. Winning is never meaningless. Indeed part of our problem is we haven’t done enough winning over the last 10 years so we need to know that feeling. Some people are so consumed by their anti Voss agendas that they can’t bring themselves to even enjoy a win.

There is still plenty of questions that need answers. A lot of improvements need to be made. Most notably for me is whether we have enough players with the skills and poise to execute under the highest pressure. Coaches and game style definitely need a look at but I think that it’s still heavily linked to the issue around skills, or lack there of.

 

[AndyLucimitis]

Young's best game for the club so far - yet he finished with just 8 disposals, 4 clangers, and a disposal efficiency of only 25%.

His goal from 50 metres after an uncontested mark was a highlight, but outside of that, I thought his performance was very poor.

He continues to appear slow, both in movement and decision-making, and his ball use remains a real concern. I’d love to be proven wrong, but at this stage, it just looks like AFL level might be a bit beyond him.

My worry with Young is he seems slow to get the ball from hand to boot. Hard to explain but sort of has this extra movement where the ball in hand moves across his body left to right.

Under AFL pressure that split second makes a difference.

 

[mochacinolatte]

Game was pretty average, but basically you just want to see the younger guys step up which they did.